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posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:22 PM
reply to post by sickofitall2012

Oh enough whining already. It's been this way in Canada for years and we don't whine all day long, nor do people refuse to work and accept handouts. You obviously are ignorant to the state of your own damn neighbors if that is truly what you think socialism is like.

Oh no! Your taxes are going to rise a meager amount for every dollar you make above $250k!

Get over it. Buy 5 less Big Macs and that'll cover the difference.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:24 PM
reply to post by pai mei

no, we need our manufacturing base back! we need our industry back! its' been shipped overseas. people in india are answering phone calls for our utility companies! if tiny little japan can manage a manufacturing and industrial country, so can we! i don't want to hear another word about how we are costly. we don't cost anything. in fact, we keep paying everyone else money. we've handed out cash to every country on the planet, i think. and then some. who knows. we're probably supporting colonies in space by now!

[edit on 5-11-2008 by undo]

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:25 PM
reply to post by DazedDave

contrary to popular opinion, most americans are at or below the poverty line. we can't afford more taxes, especially on utilities. you don't live here, so stuff it in your ear.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:29 PM
In between everything last night I was listening to Coast-to-Coast and I think it was Gerald Celente that predicted Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid would not wait on new taxes to fund all of Obama's programs. He believes that they will continue to do what they did with the $700B and just print more money bringing inflation beyond the ability of the government to control.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:30 PM

Originally posted by lw2525
reply to post by GamerGal

Please don't get me wrong and think I'm a republican. I'm a libertarian in every sense of the word. I've voted independent for years. I detest both both parties... dems AND republicans.

With all due respect, you seem to be from the Nancy Pelosi\Howard Dean\John Kerry school of politics. That is, to constantly, shamelessly and unceasingly take 100% credit for EVERYTHING positive, while blaming EVERYTHING negative on the republicans. Both parties are to blame for the mess we're in.

Yeah that is what GG does, I think she has some other issues but to the extent she has Blamed the republicans for the economy,, that one cracked me up. Hell, GamerGal breaks a nail and she blames Bush for it.

GG would do well to look up some old New York Times newspapers back when Clinton gave almost 100% of our Military Secrets to China. Then not onece but twice, he had Osama Bin Laden in our Crosshairs but Clinton said Abort Abort and while Gamer Girl gives Clinton all the credit for his economy, the Fact is that strong economy was the result of the Newt Gingrich House and Senate where we saw him gavel after gavel hammer away at a dynamic and new Budget cutting Government spending dramatically in what was called "The Contract with America" Those were some of the best Republicans we'd have ever seen. But the worst thing Clinton did was his legislation to make affordable housing easier.

Easier to secure a Mortgage when you couldn't afford one by lowering the standards in place to qualify for a loan. This had all the earmarks set for Disaster and in 2005 it Was John McCain who insisted if we didn't do something to tighten up fannie and freddie it could have global repercussions. Barney Frank, and Barack Obama said their was no problems with them and to lay off with any new legislation while Obama and Franklin Raines went back to work to finish the job they were out to do and that was to CRUSH our economy hitting it in a keystone area of the banking system then blamed McCain for messing it up. This guy Obama is SUCH a class act that when the first Bill was being drafted for the Bail Out, your man Obama not learning a damn thing from the crisis going on, puts in the bill a provision (earmark) for ACORN to get %20 of the bailout's $750 Billion. Instead of bringing Raines and Obama up on charges like Ken Lay was with Enron,, he gets fired but leaves with over a million dollars in "Bonus" money and goes to work for Obama, the same guy Raines paid $186,000 to help keep McCain off their backs. Obama took the money and kept McCains bill from ever getting out of commitee.

This is all historical facts that even Bill Clinton has admitted to.

But who do we trust to solve the economy? One of the Key figures in its destruction Barack Obama of course! While gamer girl blames McCain because the Obamalists said so and said John McCain was lying.

Who caught it in time to stop it from being passed was again John McCain. But what did we hear on the news? Not a damn thing about the sneaky Obama putting pork in the bill for ACORN, No, What We heard was how McCain was getting in the way of "Progress" when what he did was saved us from the Rookie Senator, Obama who doesn't seem to know when to STOP messing with our money.

The History of a Financial Disaster


Fannie Mae is a GSE (Govt. Sponsored Entity) regulated by Congress.
Fannie Mae buys mortgages from other companies. It is backed by the taxpayers for all losses, but keeps all profits. President Clinton loosens Home Loan Requirements.


Banks begin making thousands of bad loans,0 down, no documentation, for 120%! (1998 – 2008). Executives at Fannie receive huge bonuses if loan targets are met. Franklin Raines and Jamie Garelick from the Clinton Administration are appointed to run Fannie Mae.


President Bush proposes a new oversight committee to clean up Fannie Mae, but Democrats derail the effort.

Rep. Melvyn Watt, (D-NC) Committee on Financial Institutions & Consumer Credit. stated, “I don’t see much other than weakening the bargaining power poorer families to get affordable housing.”

1999 - 2004

Raines earns $100 million in bonuses.

Garelick earns $75 million in bonuses.

In 2004, Enron collapses, congress investigates, Executives Skilling & Lay go to jail, for fraudulent bookkeeping. Congress responds with the Sorbanes-Oxley Act, more heavy regulation of corporations.


An OMB investigation finds massive fraudulent bookkeeping at Fannie Mae. False numbers triggered executive bonuses every year.

Congress holds no hearings, no one goes to jail, or is punished.


1999 -2005

Fannie Mae gives millions to Democratic causes, examples: Jesse Jackson & ACORN. Fannie Mae pays millions to 354 congressmen and senators, from both parties. Who got the most money?

Top 4 Recipients

#1 Sen. Christopher Dodd, (D-CT) Chairman of the Banking, Housing, & Urban Affairs Committee

#2 Sen. Barack Obama, (D-IL) Federal Financial Management Committee

Top 4 Recipients

#3 Sen. Chuck Schumer, (D-NY)

Chairman of the Finance Committee

#4 Rep. Barney Frank, (D-MA)

Chairman of the House Financial Services Committe


Franklin Raines & top execs are forced to resign from Fannie Mae.

They do not go to jail.

There is no media “perp. talk.”

They keeps all of their bonuses

They finally pay $31.4 million in civil fines.

The American Tax Payers shell out a mind boggling $750 Billion Dollars in a Bailout Package with Obama calling anyone who doesn't pay more in taxes "Selfish"


The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act is sponsored by:

#325 Sen. John McCain, (R-AZ) Armed Services, & Commerce, Science, & Transportation

“If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.”


None of the top 4 recipients support the legislation.
The reform act is blocked by Democrats, never even making it out of committee. None of the politicians return any of the money, tainted by fraud.


Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac go bankrupt and the govt. takes them over completely. Lehman Brothers, goes bankrupt from investing in bad mortgages. AIG get $85 million in loan guarantees, after insuring bad loans & projects. Taxpayers will ultimately pay BILLIONS.


Franklin Raines is now an advisor to the Obama Campaign which wants the govt. to take over more of the economy. Did government involvement in the mortgage market work out? How will even MORE government involvement make it better? Do you want to be Sweden? McCain favors revising regulations & loan standards, selling off Fannie & Freddie.


Congressional Record, 5/25/06
Herald Tribune, 4/18/08
New York Times, 9/13/03
www., 9/17/08

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:30 PM
I knew this kind of post would be here today... This is the most counterproductive and pointless thread ever and it surely does not deserve to be anywhere on the front page or even responded too. Basically you just came here to feel sorry for yourself and then make predictions on how in the future electricity will be expensive and everything is going to get worse etc.. Politicians say lots of things if 10% became true we would be in a world of hurt or happiness depending on your opinion. Please come back and give us the sob story and the "now that obama is president were all gonna die and become third world", when we are.

Sheesh cmon ATS.

edit for error and to add "and everything is going to get worse"
[edit on 5-11-2008 by 911fnord]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by 911fnord]

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:30 PM

Originally posted by coven

Originally posted by TXPatriot38
reply to post by coven

You mean to tell me that after MONTHS of hearing that he is not a socialist,

He's not... He's a democrat. we have a socialist party in America... He was NOT on their ticket.

now we have to wait and see if socialism is a bad thing? I truly wish you obamatards would make up your minds.

No you don't have to wait. you can get off your lazy butt, and go visit a few of 'em. Canada, France, Norway, The Netherlands; and any of the hundreds of other socialist nations. And then you can see first hand how f'd our current system is. Socialism is Democracy... Just improved upon as our founding fathers suggested (but we were just too lazy to do). Socialism is NOT communist, fascist, or dictatorial

Oh, and this Obamatard is dancing on your lost vote right now

And I think, since I didn't have a dog in this show, I will whine as long and loud as the dems did for the last 8 years.

*shake Pacifier* you mean I have to use this? I thought you ALL could act older than that. One would hope you don't whine the entire time... I worked on getting my party organized, and we won an election. Might be a better route than bi*&%ing...

*tsk tsk*

And I also wonder how many dead people voted for this "mandate".

I would assume the same number of votes cast early for McCain by people who died before Nov. 4th.

/Sarcasm on

Please stop all this logical/reasonable talk, it scares me almost as much as the word -socialism-. Mommy is still looking up that word on the internet for me.

/Sarcasm off

Fearful people are difficult to reason with but I applaud you for trying.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:31 PM

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
reply to post by whaaa

That's sad you think the conservative party is just about that. Perhaps you should read up on the subject more and stop listening to the drive by media, just a thought.

Sweetheart, perhaps you should read up on the history of the GOP.
Here ya
and stop listening and believing what el rushbo tells you, Just a thought.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by whaaa]

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:32 PM

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by pai mei

no, we need our manufacturing base back! we need our industry back! its' been shipped overseas. people from india are answering phone calls for our utility companies! if tiny little japan can manage a manufacturing and industrial country, so can we! i don't want to hear another word about how we are costly. we don't cost anything. in fact, we keep paying everyone else money. we've handed out cash to every country on the planet, i think. and then some. who knows. we're probably supporting colonies in space by now!

i completely agree with you on some level

big business is held acountable for that one and we need to take a stand and demand some new things in order for this to happen

good reliable cars and cheap clean energy, better food quality and clean food

we have to make the big guys understand we wont better and not just what they have and cough up our money so they can enjoy good life and we struggle to live

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:32 PM
reply to post by undo

Did you see the movie from my post ?
And what's that "we need our manufacturing back" , are you a capitalist ? Then you understand that thos companies that moved to India are capitalist, and they did it because they win more money by having workers from there. It's not your manufacturing to have back. Maybe it will come back when ypu in America accept to work on the same wages as Indians. Capitalist corporations are not welfare missions.

See my movie then answer.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:33 PM
reply to post by undo

$250k is the poverty line?

What do you guys use? Golden toothbrushes?

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:34 PM
reply to post by rikk7111

I owe no flag my allegiance. I am a man. We must realize that eventually we must all become one. It would be foolish to think otherwise; All of these borders and divisions we've made for ourselves must go. I realize I am being idealistic, but truly, isn't that what any reasonable man would want?

I'm not saying to destroy any group of peoples cultural identity, just the boundaries. If there's one thing I learned in kindergarten, its that everything works better when we all share and work together, this goes not only for a single man, but a town, city, state, country, nation, and so forth. We are at the nation stage. I mean, can you imagine what we could do if we combined the powers of China and the US? If we stopped letting money fester at the top?

I was looking at a magazine the other day, something my dad happened to have in the bathroom at his house, we live in a fairly wealthy area of Orange county, and this magazine basically advertises products to the ultra wealthy. Anyway, there is an ad for a watch- $75,000. That sniz is just disgusting to me, and thats the low end of the price spectrum for high-quality watches I'm sure.

But I digress, here's a picture of Obama, and what's that he's wearing?

If I recall correctly, its a lapel pin displaying both the Israeli and American flags together, a show of unison.

I find it amusing that people think either of these men are somehow different. Rest assured, both were/are prepared to carry out the same plans as laid out for them by their handlers. They were groomed and prepared for this. Any radical policies Obama implements will be simply another step towards the last space on the game board, just as 9/11 and Iraq.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:36 PM

Originally posted by rikk7111
You men give my heart deep thoughts as we are at the epoch of a fearful epic event.These coming four years will go down in history as our constitution will dwindle and our flag will fade. call me a fascist, call me what you will, but when our country will vote for a man that will not give a pledge of allegiance to our American flag or willingly wear an American flag pin etc, we are in deep trouble..............May God help us all .

As much as I have respected some of your posts, it appears sir that you are GROSSLY in error.

Here is a video of Senator Oboma saying the pledge.

and one of him wearing the pin.

Now whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

McCain with no flag pin here linked below.

Sometimes gentlemen and women, hype is hype. I have just shown Obama wearing a pin, and doing the pledge. Now where is your decency in admitting the truth.

May God give you wisdom.


posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:38 PM
ugh, no stab to anyone specific, but the internet should not be given to any and everyone.

we're all animals. its not the governments and the politicians fault. its humans fault for behaving the way they do, and the way they will continue to do until their demise. reality has a nice way of imitating fiction. we will see how things go.

so many in here arguing half as@ about stuff, sounding completely stupid and selfish, completely unaware of the bigger picture at hand. the future for humans is bleak, we will deserve our ultimate fate. technology will bring about some pains to millions if not billions. you cant stop it, it will always continue to grow, and things must give.

either millions or billions accept this new wave of technology to come, and demand a system that is prepared to take care of its people and provide proper care, when a majority of jobs we take for granted now, will be replaced by machines, or millions or billions of people cease to exist in the coming change of our world.

technology is our friend. inform yourself. you wont be typing away forever on cheap keyboards and using your 2 dollar mouse to navigate the screen. i assure you, and when that day comes, are you ready for the change.


technology is but one piece of the puzzle. its funny how ignored it is, and how people are completely unaware or refusing to believe that machines will be created one day that can and will take your job from you, because its cost efficient for companies, who seek profit and more and more labor that they can force out of machines, but not humans. this is not centuries away people. far from it

oh wait, machines already do exist that have taken jobs from people. ooooooooh, okay. phase 1. next phase

what are we gonna do, deny technology? ha ha. its our fate. we will constantly push the edge. seeking to one day making a.i, access to the internet 24/7, because your plugged in through your brain. no longer will we work hard,long weeks at work, the machines will do our work, faster and more efficient. this is your future. where the government will either take care of us, or get rid of us, so they only need to control a few, and not so many.

we'll see, but thats just my opinion

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:39 PM
After the election in 04 I said I would hold judgement ans support Bush. Needless to say I was slammed by my so called friends who also voted for Kerry.

If you people who cannot come to terms that the American people have spoken then I feel sorry for you. I really do.

Now if you feel that this country is going to hell because we as a whole (poor, uneducated, lazy, welfare recieving, terrorist loving, illegal loving, socialist, anti-god muslims) are all in a giant conspiracy to overthrow the second admendment, abolish religous freedom etc.etc. ad-nausium b.s you hate your country mindset remember this. I have never recieved a dime of welfare, unemployment or any other handout and I have proudly wore the uniform of my countries military. Kiss my you know what and live in the world I have had to endure for 8 years.

Get over it and contribute something other than insults and fake rage.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:40 PM
reply to post by undo

Our citizens don't need to be doing these things. They should be taking advantage of the educational opportunities that the country is basically offering to everyone for free. We have some of the best schools in the world, by the far the most accessible to people across all racial, cultural and economic groups... and yet our citizenry is crying out for lack of work, which I might add is mostly of unskilled labor. Basically, the country went skyward in its academic, high tech and financial pursuits, and that minority that decided to stick around in their personal little caves are now paying for their lack of ambition and direction. All the sufficiently unimportant and unskilled jobs should be heading over seas, that's the only way keep up with progress. Eventually, when automation becomes cheaper than employing overseas, machines will supplant all the remaining unskilled manual labor domestically and abroad. Manual labor should be relegated to machinery, just as the Greeks and Romans knew it should be the function of slavery. Unfortunately for antiquity, those societies philosophical principles and ideas grew at a geometric rate, where technological development was relatively stagnant as compared to today. They were intelligent beyond their means of production. If they had but undergone some form of industrial revolution at the beginning of the first millennium, they would have come to similar conclusions. People need to be freed of this burden, so that they can contribute to their State and pursue their own ambitions at leisure. It's the scale of increasing intellectual complexity against decreasing physical output.

Outsourcing can be seen as a measure of increasing productivity, efficiency and capacity for profit. Unfortunately, because of this disparity between the educated and the uneducated, increasing production levels won't be a good economic measure of quality of life. But that's just because people are creating this divide for themselves. People just have to keep up or they'll suffer the consequences. It's as simple as that. You only have one life and its relatively long. There are lots of opportunities to change. Don't give me the excuse you were born into your economic situation. To be honest you can give everything up that you own and become a doctor, if you really want, at any age you wish to pursue that ambition. The channels all exist, and they're open. They're socially unconventional, and the task would be morally objectionable if you happen to have a family, but it's entirely possible. It's self conflict that produces this inability to affect personal change.

That's why the majority are afraid of Socialists. Not because of many of the policies of regulation and equity that such a system would introduce, or even impose on our long established financial and political traditions (regulation is actually key to a powerful capitalist society) but they are afraid because of this notion that the so-called "underprivileged" will exploit the benevolence of the government and usurp the hard earned incomes and positions of power that those that helped bring this country into modernity produced at their own expense: this new upper class would suffer for the belligerence of a rapidly emergent and radical "underprivileged" class.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by cognoscente]

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:42 PM
reply to post by DazedDave

i'm telling you hardly no one makes 250k, and he dropped it to 100k, i do believe. it's been dropping as the economy worsened. i guess he realized it was going to take more money than he originally thought, and as a result, the tax bracket has dropped way below the original 250k. most people who live here, don't even break 40k a year. with the cost of living, and the living standard that's expected by the laws of the land, we can't afford higher utility bills, or more taxes on things like tobacco, booze and luxury items. all it's going to do is make the poor people alot poorer and the rich people alot poorer.

my sister makes pretty good money. but she lives in an area that was devastated over the last 15 years by NAFTA. she's financially supporting several families, including ours. when the new tax bracket kicks in, she won't be able to help all those people anymore, and they'll have to try their luck at getting government assistance, which if you aren't a minority, is really hard to get.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:44 PM

Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to post by fedup2

Reaganomics destroyed the economy. Clinton saved it from Reaganomics. Bush destroyed his work.

I sure wish this two party partisanship would really end.

There were pros and cons to both sides of the story. I was a big fan of the Clinton years as well, but Clinton decimated the Social Security System in order to keep a well maintained economy.

You people really got to get over your bigotry of Blue vs Red. There's more out there than black and white. Take a step back and look at the 5 designations of grayscale for a second.


We need to implement a 5 party system for this country to hit on all cylinders, but most people, like those posting here, are too hung up on being liberal or conservative.

The two party system has taken basically two Statists and labeled them each Liberal or Conservative and it left us with two lame-ass choices in my opinion.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:49 PM
Post after post of bitter whites..

I mean seriously

"congrats america you just elected your first dictator and last president"

"this is truly a sad day for america"

"Gone are the days where family matters. Welcome to the economic enslavement of the entire nation. No longer will you benefit from succeeding in business or work. No longer will you need to worry about paying for your electric bills or gas bills. Why? Because you wont be able to much longer."

"2.) Entitlements - In the age of the younger crowd and their need to have everything handed to them without working for it . . . Obama promised them free money for nothing, and he gets the 18-24 vote."

"I just hope what ever is about to happen is quick so the people of the United States don't suffer too much and we can all find out if there is a heaven / hell or other dimension. "

"I would expect to see a huge surge in illegals now that Obama is going to be giving free handouts. "

Obama is just one man. Dont worry the people who really run this country share the same skin color as you, so dont go buying your bomb shelters and MRE's just yet.. The biggest drawback to him winning will be the bitter angry whites raising hell the next 4 years.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 02:50 PM
You just realized your a slave and the country is screwed up bad? Everyones been a slave since America/Canada was founded.

You think Mc cain would have been any better? Why are there so many people here that do not understand the big picture? You think really think Mc Cain had a chance? I didn't see him go to Bilderburg this year. I know Obama did. Why do so many here think "good" Christian/Islamic/Repub/Demo politicians will actually do anything to get us out of enslavement and uphold these American "values" or w.e the hell your talking about.

You need to make efforts yourself, not waiting for some politician who says he will do this and do that and obviously receives private funding.

I am really confused why theres so many people on this site that just deny the truth, what is wrong with you?


[edit on 5-11-2008 by lawlb0t]

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