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posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:40 AM
Ok, I don't post very often here, but I think this matter deserves a response. First, you should know that I have been a founder and CEO of two small companies, one of which went public and the other acquired. Now, before you judge me harshly, know that my family was very poor and lived on the very bad side of a major US city. I sacrificed to put myself through school only to work 7-day weeks for many years to create jobs for hundreds of people that supported their families. I believed (and still do) that anything can be done through hard work guided by a caring philosophy - caring about others and caring about doing your best. While I made many mistakes, the people I worked with rallied around this ethic and did extraordinary things while having fun doing it.

Now, I would hope to see this same kind of approach used in our government. That is, a balance of people-centric philosophy and a demand for fiscal responsibility and hard work.

George Bush is the antithesis of this. He is an example of someone who couldn't hold a job, drank himself under the table too many times, is self-indulgent and self-aggrandizing, has no command of the English language and, honestly, not much different than a lot of people here in Texas where I live. His choice of advisors and bullying tactics to get us into Iraq is unforgivable and has hurt this country deeply. If I had been as non-caring as he was about things like pointless wars, Katrina, human torture and financial deregulation as he has been over the past 8 years, I would have been out of business in less than twelve months. He will go down as the worst president in history and rightfully so.

John McCain agreed with Bush most of the time, especially Iraq. This alone indicates to me that he too has poor judgement. When he selected Palin and then used nothing but fear tactics to try and bully the American people in accepting a continued policy of bullying the world, he showed even poorer judgement. And when he stood up and soberly said "My fellow prisoners..." he confirmed to me that those years in concentration camp in another pointless war of fear had not been kind to him. Having a president who might address the nation and world in this way would be just as embarrassing and catastrophic as Bush has been.

The ultimate irony in what happened last night is the American people elected a man whose last name rhymes with Osama and middle name is Hussein. Oh, and he is black. Who would have thought this was possible only four years ago? Could it be the majority of Americans have decided to stand up to the bullies?

Perhaps it was time we choose hope instead of fear. Perhaps the world will follow a nation who values people and can form a complete sentence. Perhaps the hate that has been flamed to new heights abroad and here at home will be lessened. Maybe the big corporations can carry a bigger load of the tax burden instead of the average American, say like Exxon. Maybe it's time to proactively fund alternative fuels instead of "drill baby drill" so we don't have to invade oil producing countries to protect our "national interest" or continue suffocating the planet and padding the pockets of family friends. How about a positive view of the world for a change?

If there is one thing that I have to say to all those Bush/McCain supporters out there who are so fearful of Obama it is this. It's OK to stop being fearful. Stop hating. Stop booing. Stop pointing fingers. Stop shooting and bombing. Stop winking. Stop being a prisoner in life and take the high road, not the low road. Life is a blessing - don't waste it.


[edit on 5-11-2008 by Maxpageant]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by Maxpageant]

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:44 AM
To the OP:

You have not a clue what you are talking about. The "Obama spreading the wealth tax plan" does not change our country in any signifigant way. It will screw you over with higher taxes either, unless you make over 200k per year. If you make over 200k per year why are you complaining? You're rich, you're still going to be rich. I make 60k per year and under Obama's tax plan I'll save about 4k per year in taxes. That money will go back in to the economy I'm sure.

Also you're a really bad parent if you work 60 hours a week and don't spend time with your children. Stop whining.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Karlhungis
McCain was gracious in defeat, it is a damn shame that his supporters can't find it in themselves to be the same. Can we please put the hate aside for a while and try to unite as a country?

The hatred in this thread represents the Rovian politics that the McCain campaign has led. I don't think that people realize just how dangerous this is. There have already been two assassination plots against Obama thanks to this type of mentality. To continue this will only fuel the fire. I honestly worry about Obama making it to January.

Unite under what - a man who has little to no regard for the Constitution of our country? A man who backed by venemous members of Congress who make statements like these:

And people have the nerve to say the OP is exaggerating - when men like this say that if you become wealthy in this country you are no longer entitled to keep that wealth???

No, sir! I WILL NOT unite behind Obama or his thugs in Congress and I encourage every conservative with a true sense of patriotism and love for this country to do the same. I will not compromise my principals on some flimsy hope that this man is going to make the rest of the world like us again.

This man may become YOUR president, but he is not and will never be mine, because he stands on principals that I can never endorse - socialism, Marxism, redistribution of resources to the least productive members of our society.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:46 AM

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:47 AM
thank you Velvet Death and secretstash... I concur with your sentiments and fears..

I live and work far away from my family and close friends, and now I fear that I may never be able to see them again, since my ability to travel and move will be halted by a police state, my ability to put gas in my car will be halted by the price of fuel, my ability to fly will be taxed and fee-hiked beyond reach, not to mention being placed on some 'watch list' as a 'conspiracy nut' or 'terrorist' because I have views which differ with the herd..

today is a very dark day; the 'big lie' has now been etched in stone across the colletive consciousness

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:50 AM

Originally posted by k-string
I don't even know why we're arguing. All I see in this thread is poor sports mad about their candidate losing. We are finally going to join the ranks of the civilized country, with real health care coming hopefully soon.

I work in the healthcare industry now. Socialized Healthcare is going to destroy it. Millions of people are going to lose jobs when the insurance companies are no longer needed. They are needed to help keep fraud in check. Medicaid/Medicare is running rampant with fraud because it is government run. A doctor's office cannot survive off of what Medicaid pays them. I have seen clinics go bankrupt because of it.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:50 AM
reply to post by TrekFan

dear god, seriously, PLEASE do a bit of reading before posting and making yoruself look like an asshat.

first of all these - " " are quotation marks. these - () are parenthesis.

Secondly their "holy book" doesn't tell them to kill anyone who isn't of the same religion, thier holy book tells them to defend thier religion when it is attacked or challenged. ie: when your moron president bombs the hell out of a country he has no business being in, that until he decided it would be fun to bomb, he couldn't pick out on a globe.

"Fundamentalist" is a term that applies more to christians than to any other religion in recorded history. Or have you forgotten about the crusades, the inquistition, the massive amounts of atrocities carried out in the name of "God".

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:52 AM
reply to post by gizmohd

You are spot on! It is indeed a sad day.

For me it has been a sad process first with Ron Paul withdrawing and now with the defeat of John McCain. I was never a huge fan of McCain but he was better than a Socialist who supports Genocide in Africa and has pictures of Che Guevara on the walls of his campaign office:

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:54 AM
reply to post by whiterabbit85

Like the atrocities carried out by osama bin laden in the name of alah?

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:55 AM
this is not about people crying in their coffee about 'their candidate losing'..

my candidate was Chuck Baldwin... I knew he wouldn't win..

this is about the solidification of the fraud and the trampelling of our constitution..


posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:56 AM
Why are there so many totally ignorant posts here, especially about "socialism?" You people have no idea what you're talking about and demonstrate pretty clearly you can be set up as patsies. Obama is only going to raise taxes for the top 2 brackets and all this will do is create a tax structure similar to what we had under Clinton.

Obama plans to raise the rate on the richest people by 4.6 percent. That means they will pay 39.6 percent on adjusted gross income. Guess what the rate was back in 2000 on the richest people? 39.6 percent.

In addition, what is this idiotic nonsense about how he's going to give all this money away to "criminals?" I mean, c'mon, you guys need to get conversant with the facts. Obama's only spending proposals are:

57 billion for Economy, Transportation, and Infrastructure.

34 billion for Education, Science, and Research.

56 billion for Energy, Agriculture, and the Environment.

139 billion for Health Care.

10 billion for Homeland Security and Law Enforcement.

72 billion for National Defense and International Relations.

about 3 billion for Veterans.

Exactly how does this mean that money is going to be "taken from hard working people and given to criminals?" I've found most of you are averse to reading and never deal in facts (except when you take a small fact and then try to stretch it way, way out to come to some ludicrous, vastly overreached conclusion).

Don't you see that it's people like you who helped Obama win? It becomes quite clear reading threads on the internet that the craziest, most ignorant people out there were vastly disproportionately supporters of McCain.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:59 AM

Originally posted by prestonberryworth
To the OP:

You have not a clue what you are talking about. The "Obama spreading the wealth tax plan" does not change our country in any signifigant way. It will screw you over with higher taxes either, unless you make over 200k per year. If you make over 200k per year why are you complaining? You're rich, you're still going to be rich. I make 60k per year and under Obama's tax plan I'll save about 4k per year in taxes. That money will go back in to the economy I'm sure.

Also you're a really bad parent if you work 60 hours a week and don't spend time with your children. Stop whining.

The flaw in the Obama / Robin Hood plan is that raising taxes on small business owners, the ones who generally make over 200K/Yr, will force them to raise their prices for provided goods and services. Joe the plumber et al will raise his prices, and YOU will still pay for the Obama tax increases.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Gateway
The republicans need to purge ALL the NEOCONS from the conservative party and send them BACK TO THE DEMOCRATS, where they belong. Let this loss be a lesson to all the SO-CALLED "Conservatives" who support this type of BIG-GOVERNMENT conservatism.

TODAY is going to be a painful lesson indeed, for all of us!

I think this quote sums up a lot.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:04 AM
reply to post by gizmohd

Well, other than your fears, I suppose we need to wait until we see all of what you are predicting actually take place.

I suppose that you make a quarter million a year. Yes, it will be tough times as your costs with two children are going to increase but your income is not going to go up at the same rate you are used to. tough times indeed when a man can only afford three houses before his tax rate skyrockets. may god help us all.

Now if you are proposing that Obama's tax plan is somehow different from what he has said, I could buy that, presidents always break promises. But could you cite some of your sources backing your statements? any books, news, or other information backing it? (besides the McCain/Palin campaign propaganda or your gut feeling)


posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:06 AM
reply to post by ClintK

And just where in the H_ _ do you think this money going to come from? Anyone making more than $42,000 will be taxed. I have worked my way up from poverty, got a college education all on my own without a handout. I'll be damned if I'm paying one more cent in taxes. What do think "redistributing the wealth" means? That is socialism!!!!

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:07 AM
So much bias and nonsense by these conservatives.

Claiming out to God... What is this drama? What have you people turned out to be? Close-minded zombies? There are many things that you have yet to understand that are the base of Obama's politics, but the fear in which you've all been founding yourselves (thanks to your GOP Leaders) blinds you up completely, to the point of agreeing blindly in one irrevocable idea of how governments should work.

The Ideals of the neo-cons are about to crumble and find some place in history where it belongs. Look where we are, look what our country has come about; Why do you insist so fiercely on the same old ideas that had done nothing good to our Nation. Why? Why the narrow mind? What needs to be done for you to understand otherwise?

How can anyone, with a sane mind ever believe the party and the people who's turned the Country into what it is now, can do better?

This time, is for all of you neo-cons who keep destroying countries on the far world which have nothing to do whatsoever with the idealism of "Freedom" the biggest lie ever bought by the ignorance of our Country. Don't pay your taxes and I'll show you Freedom. The earned Freedom is for the Powerful ones, at the op of the Pyramid, looking down at us and laughing. Our Freedom? in this Country, we buy it and we pay it with Money that's not even ours. It never was, it ever will. Look how Karma comes back whether you believe in it or not. Look how so much War Mongering and Bad Administration of your GOP has come back to hit us hard.

This time, is for all you racists who cannot bear the idea of having a Color Man as the President of the United States of America. Enough with the whinning already. This is the only move needed to shred the wall that divides a Nation; only the blind has the guts to say this Country abolished racism long ago. This move, and this presidency is what is needed to begin a greater labor, of ridding the Nation of racist neo-cons.

Wait and see how you eat your words of demise and doom. Leave the drama aside; unite and try to help this Country that is in huge crisis. Stop propagating fear; your post is nothing but drama, straight out of a movie.

Forget about the elections. Go back to your family and friends and enjoy life; Not a single president has done EVERYTHING we wanted. With Bush, s*it when flying up; with McCain, it would've hit the fan.

Wait and see. Stop the Drama. You sound pathetic.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:10 AM

Originally posted by gizmohd
November 4th 2008 marks the dawn of a new day. Gone will be the days where hard work actually means something in order to prosper in the world. Gone are the days where family matters. Welcome to the economic enslavement of the entire nation. No longer will you benefit from succeeding in business or work. No longer will you need to worry about paying for your electric bills or gas bills. Why? Because you wont be able to much longer. Obama told us that under his plans the cost of electricity would 'necessarily" skyrocket. Under his plan if I succeed and become successful I will be punished by higher tax rates. Gone is the American dream. I am rightfully upset. I am a single father raising two children without any help from their mother (financially or otherwise) and I take NO government assistance to do it. I worked 60 hour work weeks while going to school full time in the evenings while my children were toddlers giving up precious time with them in order to earn my college degree so that I could make more and provide more for them. But now, when Obama removes the Bush tax cuts, my taxes will increase, when Obama orders that the Power Plants pay a ridiculous carbon tax for burning coal, my Electricity costs will skyrocket... Now, when Obama stops us from drilling for more oil my fuel costs will skyrocket.. When is enough enough? Where is the point where Obama comes out and says that they will take 100% of my salary and provide me with what "I need" to survive? Myself, my father/grandfather/greatgrandfather etc all served in the military with pride to protect my and your freedoms from socialsm and now I get to explain to my children just why is it that we allowed socialism/communism to win. ANd the sad thing about it all is that they were right.. Because America allowed itself to be bribed with our own money, money that the government shouldnt have in the first place, we vote our freedoms away just for a damn handout..

So, as the title suggests... Welcome to the United Socialist States of America. God help me, I pray that I am wrong and things will not get as bad as I forsee.. But when everything I was taught about freedom and what this Republic stands for is going to be flushed down the toilet, it makes me mad. But most of all, it makes me extremely sad.. Just how is it that I am going to explain it to my children how we allowed this wonderful country to slip away from us.

I heard this 4 and 8 years ago with Bush, I bet they were right too.

I've met Democrats who acted like Republicans and I met Republicans who acted like Democrats.

So tell me, when my coal power plant goes out of business. I guantee, he'll be out of office before you can say 2012

I feel for you dude really, for If i could vote, I'm glad I didn't vote for a lame duck DoLe.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:14 AM
reply to post by GamerGal
Sorry but congress is really the body that is in charge of everything. And unless the bleach has rotted your brain, guess who has been in charge of that the last few years, when things began to tank? Can it be the DEMs? Did you not watch the mess on the Fannie/Freddie hearings on CSPAN in 2004? The Republicans were trying to ring the alarm bell about all this mess, and the moron DEMs said there was no truth in their claims. Gee, who was right there? So try to get your news from someplace else other than ABC, NBC, and CBS who were so far up Nobama's ass. You will be great cannon fodder in the upcoming years. You want to see tanking? Keep your eyes open for the next 2 years and watch. You are part of the mindless masses that elected someone who you have no clue about. Good luck.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:16 AM
reply to post by jazket

Watch the video I posted earlier:

Read this story on Chuck Schumer wanting to reinstate the "Fairness Doctrine"

And again listen as we tell you that those who make above $250,000 a year also create the jobs in this country. When you tax them more, they scale back by cutting jobs. That is a histoircally proven formula that has been repeated time after time after time.

We are not being dramatic. We are being realistic.

You and the other Obama supporters are living in a fantasy world, sold to you by none other than the media and Obama himself.

posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Maxpageant
Could it be the majority of Americans have decided to stand up to the bullies?
[edit on 5-11-2008 by Maxpageant]

It could be, but it isn't.

I wish this decision was more about standing up to the "bullies" but the focus has been HOPE and CHANGE and not about taking a "stand" per se.

Now, can this president stand up to the bullies with us? Of course, hell, I think this president elect can do ANYTHING as he is the most charismatic man I've ever seen alive in my lifetime, but WILL he?

Words are simply......words. Time alone will allow us to see if Obama is truly the leader to stand behind or just simply one of the "bullies."

One can only HOPE for CHANGE.

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