Mainly for UK members

If you think back to the Hungerford killings in 1987 and the Thomas Hamilton killings in 1996, ( Google ) both of these 'senseless ' and ' out of the blue ' random killings suggests to me that they might have been a pre-programed Manchurian Candidate type of operation by the UK Govt. In the Hungerford example the killer was shot to death, and in the Hamilton example he killed himself.

The reason I say this is that these incidents resulted in making it (a) very difficult to obtain a shotgun licence, and impossible to obtain a licence for a handgun.

BigGee...I see your point, but I'm not sure...I suppose it's possible, but certainly after Dunblane, I don't think many people *wanted* to own a handgun, or even a shotgun, although I live in a farming community and there are plenty of people with guns round here...which I hate, btw. It's never been part of our psyche as it is in the States, and generally the police here aren't armed, so ti's not so much of an issue. I don't feel that it's anything to be paranoid about. The ban on handguns seems to have worked in the respect that there have been no more Dunblane type incidents here in the last 12 years...hopefully never.

Cait

Just a point though and forgetting gun laws for a minute, ive heard that getting hold of a gun on the black market is the easiest its ever been??

Also buying deactivated guns are legal, and can be easily be activated again.

An Observer investigation can reveal that criminals can still acquire over the internet deactivated guns that can be converted to fire live ammunition for as little as £250. Weapons being offered for sale on British-based websites last week included a deactivated Uzi 9mm with screw-in silencer for £995 and a deactivated FBP submachine gun for £395. Many of the guns offered were deactivated before 1995, when rules on converting the weapons were less strict, which make them much easier to reactivate. Sources at NaBIS estimate that a skilled armourer can reactivate a weapon in as little as two hours. Although the trade in these guns is legal and no licence is required to buy the weapons, officers have no doubts that major criminals are converting them into lethal firearms.

Source.

Kind of reminds me of other things that were legal, then made illegal (certain drugs), thus driving it underground, and going on the notion its a conspiracy, maybe thats the desired effect, create fear and panic with incidents using pre-programed Manchurian Candidates, then tighten gun laws, but allow the spread of guns illegally to further an even bigger agenda, ok maybe not but just an idea

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Denied]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Denied]

big gee a couple of points:
FYI Michael Ryan killed himself.
It is not difficult to get a shot gun certificate.
It is NOT legal for anyone here in the UK to own a handgun, (apart from air, airsoft, deactivated or replica) therefore there is no such thing as 'handgun' licence.

caitlinfae,

Agreed generally the police over here arn't armed but more and more of them are being armed, I think it's only a matter of time before we see police routinely armed in "the war on terror" or some other suitably created notion that is deemed to make society safer.

Yes Dunblane was a horrific incident but the subsequent "knee jerk reaction" by banning handguns has done nothing to prevent violent crime involving them. In fact violent crime involving handguns has increased 10 fold since Dunblane.

The people that were going to commit the crimes with guns were going to do it anyway and chances are they would'nt do it using a legal fire arm. All the ban served to do was penalise legitamate users.

People with a disposition to want to carry out atrocities such as these will always find a way be it with a handgun, shotgun, car, knife, lorry, bus, gas, baseball bat or whatever.

My point:

Guns don't kill people.....People kill people.....!

MR

I can only speak about Dunblane. That day is seared in my memory, a co-worker's child attended that school & I had to drive her from Edinburgh to Dunblane that morning when news came through about the shootings. Luckily her child wasn't hurt, not physically at least.

If it was an attempt to force the issue of gun control by using programmed individuals, in the case of Thomas Hamilton it was particularly inept. He was already known to the authorities & was suspected of being a child abuser/paedophile. He'd been investigated by the Police about a number of issues, taking photographs of semi-naked children & an indecent act at a notorious gay cruising area in Edinburgh.

The allegations led to his business failing. Hamilton complained to all manner of people about his so called "persecution" by the Police. Think he complained to former Scottish Secretary Michael Forsyth & also Lord (George) Robertson, rumour at the time said he'd complained to the Queen too.

I think if "they" were to programme someone to commit such a terrible crime they'd have chosen a candidate less well known to the authorities ??

You had to be in Scotland the morning after Dunblane to understand the sheer revulsion & shock of the public. 15 young children & a schoolteacher murdered. Lord Cullen's inquiry took some time to report, so I wouldn't say it was a knee jerk reaction as such. For once I think the then Conservative government did actually act on Scottish opinion (wasn't usually the case way back then). The public mood was for a near total ban on handguns. And rightly so.

Niall, I totally agree...I remember that day so well, and how sickened we all were. It's only about 50 miles from where I am. I do take the previous posters point about the huge rise in illegal handgun ownership, but the point about these two incidnets is that they were both committed by people with legally held weapons.

Off topic here, but where in Scotland are you?

Cait

reply to post by caitlinfae


I'm just outside Douglas Water, South Lanarkshire, middle of nowhere

Thanks guys/gals for the replies. You have given me food for thought on my post.