US Military.... why?

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Star for you.

That was an excellent post.

reply to post by mf_luder



lol... Good ol Korea
I was there for a bit in 99' @ MEC-P in Pohang... I was never a fan of Kimchi , but the Soju wasn't too bad. Anyway enjoy your time out of the sand... be safe Brother.

Semper Fi

BTW

Today is the Marine Corps Birthday , 233 years old today!

MARINES... Protecting Liberals , Pacifists & anti war jerks since 1775

Originally posted by MischeviousElf

I would therefore like here today on this day of remembrance in the UK to on this thread to bring to your attention a US Marine who in the second world war showed true bravery, and should not be forgotten.

Nice link and I really did enjoy reading it, but the individual was not a US Marine, but a Soldier in the 7th Armored Division.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
I think this sums up reasons behind the existence of anti military sentiment on this site, or in society in general.
Thought processes such as this are not conducive to anything positive.
The real mystery is how people like, the OP, and Viking can't understand that people aren't OK with this kind of logic, or personality type....

"Killing people is just a job. I've done it and I sleep fine at night"-SuperViking, voice of the US military.

And exactly why should I lose sleep over the people I've killed, or assisted in their deaths? Sure, they were fathers, sons, brothers, uncles. They were also actively trying to kill me, or my brothers and sisters.

A UK Soldier was quoted as saying, "my job is to kill them[taliban] and I do it with some zest". Great quote!

Jericho..Real nice post and I agree with you, I was deployed the A-Stan three times and in my opinion and the bonds that I formed with my team were unbreakable, We never set out thinking oh yeah who are we going to zero out tonight however we all knew that at the end of the day we were coming home alive, I spent some of my time there being a diplomat, a teacher, a friend, a medic(even though that wasnt my job),a leader and most of all an american soldier..A warrior.

I dont get made at people who are ignorant to our cause or why we are there but I think I stated in an earlier post about the lingering fact that there are some bad apples that have soured the armed services and its usually the ones who speak on behalf of the military, I remember sitting at my local bar having some liquid pleasure and there were some younger kids sitting near me and I had overheard them laughing about killing people while they were in Iraq and its kind of angered me that they would act like this,If I wasnt trying to hook up with the very sexy bartender I would have choked them out and thats where the more professional soldier in me shows up and chalks it up to a few that slipped through the cracks. I mean seriously, if I was to gloat about what ive done those kids would have turned and ran away but what I did overseas was to preserve the lives of my team and myself while in accordance with the ROE and the Geneva Convention.

Somebody else posted about these people we are fighting being fathers and sons and brothers and thats very true but then again so are we and they really hate us and want to kill us. We can dance around this all night on who is right and wrong but when it comes to our military I try to side with my people first if possible especially my branch of service but I also will point out blame if its warranted. Whatever it is that we do/did overseas in a combat capacity we will have to live with for the rest of our days. Some people cant live with themselves and take their lives and thats a terrible thing so perhaps maybe we can show a bit more empathy to soldiers and servicemembers serving overseas and when they come home, Even sour apples deserve a little compassion despite them being idiots and acting like savages, I hate the negative light it puts on us as a whole but there are really fine men and women serving our country..Happy Veterans Day to all who have served and are serving and especially the ones who gave the ultimate sacrifice..............


[edit on 10-11-2008 by cmd18B]

I dislike what the U.S Military is doing on foreign soil, and I object to the way indigenous peoples of those countries are being treated without DUE RESPECT for the customs and beliefs by young American men generally.

Any amount of footage is available to prove my point, look it up yourself.

I have some friends who are Vietnam Vets from Australia, as was my own father, and they have some illuminating things to say about how U.S. troops conducted themselves there... which by the way is no different to how they are conducting themselves in Iraq for instance.

While Aussie troops were perimetered in for the night in typical quiet fashion, two separate hilltop U.S. Bases were partying into the night... yes, loud music, alcohol and drugs fuelling a raging party.. well, until some of the soldiers decided to shoot at the other hilltop. What ensued from there was outright "friendly fire" of the worst order. And we here in Australia are very aware of the need for quiet, cover and clear perception when on the battlefield.. which we are famous for.

If you are going to send soldiers into what amounts to an Illegal Action against another country, then you should take great care to insure you are not creating more generations of U.S hating enemies! You are not, so you need to think about that.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Tayesin]

problem is that u do what u told ;u aloweing them to test vaccination on yourself with no questions what are u being vaccinated with etc; ignorence does not pay off
also no army no wars basically

reply to post by k3456789


The only reason we wouldn't have a war if we didn't have a military would be if a miracle was to happen and every single person in the entire world simultaneously decided that they love everyone. In short, that's not going to happen. Not having a military would do nothing but leave us open to attack from anyone who decided that they wanted to. The problem comes from having leaders who are power hungry and want to rule the world, not from the military itself. Perhaps we should stop having leaders instead. It would do more to stop wars than leaving ourselves defenseless and at the mercy of anyone who does have a military.

Originally posted by Shocka


My friend was promised that he wouldn't be sent anywhere outside of the US and after he signed up and went through boot camp they told him he was going to Afghanistan to drive gasoline trucks over the border to Iraq.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

Afghanistan does not border Iraq on my map. No wonder your friend's not quite the same if he had to drive a truck full of stolen oil from Afghanistan trough Iran to Iraq in a US military vehicle, that's some scary #. The distance from Baghdad in Iraq to Kabul, Afghanistan
is 1428 miles (2297 km) in a straight as the crow flies direction, however I hear the roads are fantastic....

And just to have it said: U.S troops are famous among both UN soldiers and British soldiers for beeing extremely nervous in combat situations, witch in turn make them agressive and trigger happy. I believe most of the unnecessary violence in both Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan is due to this, and general desensitizing making even the most horific act seem normal. Don't even try the "you're part of something bigger". Well, one exception is if that bigger thing is theft, murder, islamophobia, rape and torture, I'll give you that


[edit on 26-1-2009 by SkurkNilsen]

My dad was in the South Vietnamese army during the Vietnam war. He faught for the freedom of his country against the north communists. He tells me stories about tough decisions and that soldiers do what they are told. He is so broken by the actions he had to perform from orders that he is dead scared of me joining the military.

I think our military are good people, they are people just like you and I who want to live happy lives. I have no problem with the indians, its the chiefs that I disagree and dislike.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by k3456789

 

Not having a military would do nothing but leave us open to attack from anyone who decided that they wanted to.

Yeah, you're really brainwashed... Who in their right mind would want to occupy the USA? Someone with alot of cash that's for sure, maybe that's what US needs, leave the country to the Chinese at least they know how to produce instead of just consume, and then you may have a slight chance of getting out of the financial mess the country is in.

One more thing, if you're a soldier, why would you criticize your commander in chief, if you joined the army you signed away your right to do so. And you made the decission to be under someones command, then i kinda guess you're buying into their ideology as well. The soldier is just as guilty as the commander since the soldier of his or her own free will joined the service.

Originally posted by Tayesin
If you are going to send soldiers into what amounts to an Illegal Action against another country, then you should take great care to insure you are not creating more generations of U.S hating enemies! You are not, so you need to think about that.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Tayesin]

Word, star you, you star you

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


Well, you see, that's one great thing about being an American soldier.

You get to criticize your commander-in-chief.

I don't feel by your tone that you've ever been in the military, but one of the very favorite past times for soldiers is to criticize, bitch, moan, and complain about the commander in chief, the XO, the weather, their last meal, the enemy, cloud cover, temperature, distances covered, sleep lost, the differences between Pointillism and Impresssionism in American art, the lack of a supercharger on the latest Corvette, the color of their uniforms, the smell of their feet, and that's just the first quarter-hour.

A soldier doesn't pick his enemies.

His duty is to fight those enemies chosen, and do so with honor.

A soldier does many things he may prefer to opt out of.

And that, friend, is courage.

I personally know a US Army Ranger who has been leading teams on domestic drug enforcement surveillance in direct violation of Posse Comitatus. Lest you think there is some gray area here, I asked him directly whether what he was doing violated Posse Comitatus. He replied yes, but that he and his men were trained to lie if they are ever caught in the act and say they are on a "training mission".

That's not necessary. It isn't character. It isn't honor. He's a sycophant and a liar, and it doesn't matter to him.

"Allow me to use any means to accomplish the goal, and I will deliver the results." The problem with this reasoning is that our way of life and our values are the goal. The means are the end.

But you can't explain this to someone who is out to prove to dad and grandad how much of a big boy he is. You can't explain it to someone who believes he is "special".

No one is special. No one is above the law. No one.

Ok Im fed up with reading all this crap about how the military brainwashes and only the lowest of the low and the poor people are in the military.

I am a Marine currently forward deployed to Iraq. I have not been brainwashed, I am not a felon or low of the low, and I didnt come from a poor background, I was not offered any money to join, in fact I was told that they didnt have the money to be offering and I still have to this day not seen one person from my recruiting office offered money to join, now the army navy and air force are a different matter.

As far as brainwashing, if you call being taught discipline, attention to detail, attention to rank structure, and obedience to orders brainwashing then I guess I am brainwashed. But if thats the case then so are you meaningless civilians who bash on us military members. Do you not follow a structure of authority in your office, are you no trained in your job, you do your job a certain way just about everytime you do it, when told to do something you do it. Hmm, seems all in all about the same.

As far as torturing people. There have been a few rare cases of this, and guess what, those military members were brought up on charges and most are sitting in the brig (prison for those non-military people).

The problem with the military getting a bad impression in the eyes of you Americans out there. You really want to know what it is.

You are the ones being brainwashed. I shall explain. What do you see on tv everyday, US Soldiers kill this many civilians Iraqis, Marines do this do that. Do you ever hear a single report on any of the good things that we are doing over here in Iraq and Afganistan, NO... So who is being brainwashed here, I believe you are being brainwashed to not like the military.

And if you really knew what was going on you would know that there are more military members dying in Afganistan than there are in Iraq, but for some reason the media wants to focus on Iraq so much. Want to know another bit of information that you dont see on tv and dont know about. When we completely pull out of Iraq we will be in Afganistan. All the units that are pulling out of Iraq are going to Afganistan as we speak. You get these statistics of amount of troops in Iraq, only problem is they are wrong. Military members are sent to Iraq stay here a short time then they are shipped to Afganistan, but they are still considered deployed to Iraq so the number of people in Iraq keeps growing when the truth is we have more people in Afganistan than you know about.

Before you bash on us military people, you should stop and realize if it wasnt for "US" fighting for "YOU" then YOU would not have the right to even utter a single word about how you hate the military or whatever war we are in. WE defend YOUR rights, we are the ones that allow you to live your lives how you want. The only time you like the military is when you are in danger.

You people have forgot 9/11. You have forgot how you called for retaliation for what occurred. You people just expected everything to be done fast quick and in a hurry... Well, WAR isnt wam bam thank you mam, it takes time. Now you complain and moan about the WAR THAT YOU WANTED. You bash the military, why, your the ones who sent us over here... I say let us do our jobs and shut the "F" up. We dont complain about how you do your job. Even tho I know many a times I have wanted to complain about a number of people who work at a number of jobs for being total azz backwards at what they were supposed to do. I dont, because I know how it feels to be ridiculed for doing what I was trained and told to do BY YOU...

reply to post by applebiter


You would know nothing about his position on what he is doing. He is following orders, he may not like them, or he may not care. He was trained to follow orders with obedience and not to question them, because I know first hand that questioning any order, even the most miniscule can get people killed. I am currently deployed to Iraq, I have seen this happen on more than 1 occassion, you cant question orders, you just do them and accomplish the mission. Mission accomplishment by any means neccessary is what we do in the military because that is the number one objective of all military personel, TO ACCOMPLISH THE MISSION.

I will do whatever it takes to make sure that the person on my left and right comes back to their mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, wife. If that means that I have to do something morally not in YOUR realm of thought then so be it. I am not fighting for these people over here, I am fighting for the people around me, I am fighting for those back in the United States so that they can live without fear of these terrorist attacking them again. I will do whatever I have to, to accomplish my mission. ANYTHING... If anyone has a problem with my ethics or what I mean, you can u2u me. I will not discuss anymore within this thread because the American populus that has no military background, only what the media says, annoys the hell out of me when they bash the military when they have absolutely no understanding of it at all... Ignorance is no excuse, ever hear that one... That is what most people are when it comes to us, ignorant and basing their opinion on what the media feeds them. They never report the good things that we are doing over here. Hmmm, only the bad things, so why not hate us right... You people are ignorant and being brainwashed. I at your ignorance... u2u me if you have further questions regarding the military.

Originally posted by speed_demon
reply to post by applebiter

 

You would know nothing about his position on what he is doing. He is following orders, he may not like them, or he may not care. He was trained to follow orders with obedience and not to question them, because I know first hand that questioning any order, even the most miniscule can get people killed. I am currently deployed to Iraq, I have seen this happen on more than 1 occassion, you cant question orders, you just do them and accomplish the mission. Mission accomplishment by any means neccessary is what we do in the military because that is the number one objective of all military personel, TO ACCOMPLISH THE MISSION.

No, that isn't accurate, and any graduate of a military academy should know it, as well as enlisted men. The military code makes it quite clear that it is your duty to obey LAWFUL orders - not just anything that pops into the head of your commanding officer. If you haven't been taught this, and you are currently serving, then we have a real interesting situation on our hands.

Besides, I am talking specifically about domestic use of federal power for law enforcement. As I said, it isn't necessary, it isn't lawful, and it sure as hell doesn't indicate some kind of honor.

It's criminal, morally and ethically weak, and a sure sign that the military has gotten too big for its britches.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

 

Well, you see, that's one great thing about being an American soldier.

You get to criticize your commander-in-chief.

I don't feel by your tone that you've ever been in the military, but one of the very favorite past times for soldiers is to criticize, bitch, moan, and complain about the commander in chief, the XO, the weather, their last meal, the enemy, cloud cover, temperature, distances covered, sleep lost, the differences between Pointillism and Impresssionism in American art, the lack of a supercharger on the latest Corvette, the color of their uniforms, the smell of their feet, and that's just the first quarter-hour.

A soldier doesn't pick his enemies.

His duty is to fight those enemies chosen, and do so with honor.

A soldier does many things he may prefer to opt out of.

And that, friend, is courage.

Whining to fellow soldiers is not the same as questioning your superiors. I call B.S.

reply to post by speed_demon


Speed, you don't need to apologize for anything. Trying to explain to these pseudo-moralists what is required, is like trying to describe the color blue to a blind person. No frame of reference.

The nice thing about them?

Nothing.

He who would awake, must first cease to dream.

Proud of you, ESPECIALLY when you do the hard things that need doing. No use getting into it here, they wouldn't have any idea of what you're talking about.

You and the others hang in there. And if you need something, U2U me. I mean it. You need something, let me know.

Good shooting!

reply to post by SkurkNilsen

You call BS?

And just who are you?

Questioning, criticizing, and the other things I already mentioned have become a skilled art in the military.

Yeah. They care about what they do, and I assure you they question the why's as well.

All soldiers know about lawful and unlawful orders. To suggest that they don't is insulting to them.

And THEN, there's the principle of getting the job done. There's the right way, the wrong way, and the military way. And a good soldier knows when to use each.

After all, "Self-command is the hardest command." Michael C. Riggs