US Military.... why?

What it boils down to is this, the US has been trying to help alot of people. Some people out there have been helping alot and now people think they can take everything, basically they will use what ever they can against you even if they have to pull it out of thin air. The problem with this is eventually you run out of air.

Alright people,

This thread isn't about Full Metal Jacket or the actors in it, please stay on topic.

Thanks.

reply to post by mf_luder


Your right other than to interject that movies like this and the backgrounds of those who produce and direct have a great deal to do with the perception of our armed forces. Nearly every movie made during and after Viet Nam had more to do with the miniscule amount of bad apples and playing to the lowest level than actual stories of real folks that did amazing jobs in a near imposible circumstances!
Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Very good point.

Star for you.

Originally posted by chapter29
I found the soldiers in the Army to lack social skills, educational pedigree, hygiene awareness and had poor financial skills - especially with their own money...

And despite knowing this then & now, I still can't think of a better group of individuals to protect the homeland...not once did I regret enlisting nor worry about putting it on the line with these people...yes, there will always be a few bad apples, but the atrocities that occur on the civilian side are ten fold of what happens inside the military.

I have more fond memories of my time in the military than my time on the block...

The man is right, Good thread and I would just like to add that in my own opinion and now being reintroduced as a civilian I see that most people have become flaccid on war and rightfully so its also from ignorance from peole who have never served and Im not judging because it not for everybody but some idiots do slip through the cracks...How many people on this website have lost family members or knew of a servicemember to die in the GWOT and all other wars and conflicts?. Ive lost many and without bashing my branch of service but some bad apples do cast a dim light on military service but then again others become the poster boy for the armed services, I think we are sour on the war because to be frank I am sick of combat and war.I would have to say walking away was tough, I served with some real professionals who got the job done and it was nice to be a part of that and to be part of a family but there are delta bravos who give the armed forces a bad name.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by cmd18B]

Originally posted by cmd18B
I see that most people have become flaccid on war and rightfully so its also from ignorance from peole who have never served and Im not judging because it not for everybody but some idiots do slip through the cracks...

I think that is something that most people fail to recognize. It is impossible to predict what an individual person will do when put in a certain situation, whether it's war, training, or heck even just going to college. It is impossible to ensure that every single person who enlists in the military is 100% sane and it's impossible to ensure that every single person who enlists will follow all the laws, rules, regulations, etc. It is a matter of statistics that when you have a group of people as large as the military there are going to be some whack jobs that slip through.

If someone has never done anything illegal how are the recruiters, doctors, etc. supposed to know that this person will do something illegal while enlisted? They can't, it's not possible. Last I checked they don't have psychics and fortune tellers on the pay rolls to see what each new soldier will do before allowing them to join. Yet some take the few morons who manage to enlist as being an accurate representation of everyone.

WOW Jenna..Great post, your thoughts were extremely accurate and I think in my own opinion you have summed up this threads topic. Its funny but in my early years in the army i did come across many soldiers who should not have joined and like I said earlier, some really do slip through the cracks and cast extremely bad light on the army and the military but as I progressed into my career and was able to get into more accelerated schools the bad apples became non existant. Case and point, look at those idiots from the national guard that were at Abu Ghraib..That is precisely what Im talking about, In war bad things happen but dont take pictures with disposable cameras and send them home to a country that is sour on war and there are many liberals who look for this kind of hard evidence to frag military members, Im not casting a dim light on the guard but its command structure could be wound a little more tight and maybe if they had more training afforded to them perhaps our losses would be as high.
So I guess we can chalk up some bad apples and the media for putting a bad taste in the collective mouthes of the world. Its so tough to repair a damaged image these days and its hurts me to see what some bad sour apples have done to my beloved army but it will continue especially with the military lowering its standards to make its quotas.............

reply to post by cmd18B


They haven't lowered standards though. They have actually raised them. I posted a link or two on the last page I think about it. This is a very common misconception. You used to be able to enlist with certain types of felonies, though never sexual assault, rape, or domestic abuse. Now you cannot enlist with a felony at all, including people who were convicted while minors. Could be something as simple as trying to smoke out bees and accidentally catching the house on fire. Arson is a felony so you're a no go. That comes from the info I posted before on this thread. Not word for word, but that was given as an example of people who have been given a waiver in the past for a felony. Now even that will disqualify them.


edit to say: Thank you by the way!

[edit on 7-11-2008 by Jenna]

Im glad they are raising the standards, I could have been misinformed about how the army is recruiting these days, Its funny but I always liked to laugh at the recruiters, I remember when I was toying with the notion of re-enlisitng because I felt separation anxiety so I went to a recruiter to discuss some things and his sales pitch was funny and he was so fired up trying to close a deal but then I had to tell him to save his speech, All I needed to know was if I needed waivers for my injuries if I were to reenlist. I am pleased to know that the standards are getting better, Thanks for the info.

reply to post by cmd18B


Having been in for seven years, something I need to point out is that the standards for entry haven't dropped. What HAS changed is our basic training methods. I know I went through a basic training where we were still yelled at, smoked, and turned from individually thinking civilians into a team of soldiers. I'm sure you, having just retired? did as well.

Well, now - the basic training is much softer - from what I've heard, no yelling, the smoke session are bascially non-existant.. etc.

We saw these changes proposed in 2006 while I was in my second tour in Iraq and then - a lot of us NCOs were like, "Great." And now, 2 years later I look at the kids coming in the Army and shake my head. It's up to us - the NCOs out in the line units to actually shape these kids up where I believe the Drills in Basic and AIT should be the ones to do so. We've seen a lot of discipline level changes for the negative and a lot of basic soldiers skills fade away from their time in basic. This is a problem.

That's my two bits.

Originally posted by Shocka
My friend was promised that he wouldn't be sent anywhere outside of the US and after he signed up and went through boot camp they told him he was going to Afghanistan to drive gasoline trucks over the border to Iraq.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

Interesting story. I hear a lot of these but I don't think your 'friend' was ever told to drive fuel from Afghanistan across the border to Iraq. The border crossing there is called IRAN.

Nice to see you have sympathy but making up stories to get a point across isn't as effective if you are obviously ignorant of the most basic facts.

Any person that walks into a recruiters office and expects to NOT be sent overseas or thinks that he can get garruntees is NOT smart enough to qualify for any military service. When and if you sign and take the oath you will see at the very top of the paper work that the only garruntee you have is that if you can qualify you MAY be able to be trained in certain aspects of the military. This is the red hering they have tried to saddle on recruiters sine Viet Nam. Recruiters earn their jobs and , believe me do not wish to have those jobs taken from them for suits on promises made. They can now be court marshaled for doing that.

Zindo

reply to post by mf_luder

Nicely put Fox Mulder, I mean M F Luder ...Welcome home from your overseas obligations and yes the training has changed so Ive been told, I remember spending hours with my battle buddy polishing boots and the smoke sessions were the worst, Im kinda jealous of the new recruits...And another poster made a good point, I think it was Zindo but he was dead on by saying that anybody that joins the army or marines these days is almost guarnteed a trip overseas so I always try to tell the younger kids to really weigh their decisions before signing that contract..Good contributions from the posters and good topic Luder...

reply to post by cmd18B


Much thanks to you and to your good replies - btw - I'm in Korea at the moment, the NCOIC of a detachment in Uijongbu.

Korea huh?..Hopefully you will coming back closer to home in the near future. How much longer do you have on your contract?.There are parts of me, mostly my spirit and my heart that want to reenlist but Im still a little beat up and I would need waivers and Im about to possibly start a new job, All I have left is the polygraph and the panel..lol..No sweat..hahaha..

reply to post by cmd18B


Well after having been to Iraq twice when they told me I could "AIP"here for about 2 more years, I was like - hell yeah! So I've been here since Oct 2007 and won't be out of Korea until Oct 2009.

I'm on my second reenlistment and won't be ETS'ing until 2014 - if then.

Oh yeah and no sweat on the replies, Im always up for jumping in and defending our military and especially our branch of service, I think some people are very misinformed about what it is we go through and for people who have never served its difficult to understand so they just speak without first listening so I try to educate them to the best of my abilities.

reply to post by mf_luder

HMM..Have you considered WOCS? I spent a good amount of time with warrant officers and they really do know their stuff and are high speed, especially the commo wo's...



[edit on 8-11-2008 by cmd18B]

Today in the UK is the remembrance Sunday to remember and pay honor to those who have died fighting in the war's in the UK and the Commonwealth.

As you would all see from my posts on this thread I don't give Carte Blanche respect to the military, as I feel there is much wrong with the training and behaviour of the present troops.

But As I said in my earlier posts its not all the services like this, there are very brave men out there and some who are "Gentlemen of Honor" too.

They would never do what the Vids I posted depicted, and would probably fight, or report such instances.

I would therefore like here today on this day of remembrance in the UK to on this thread to bring to your attention a US Marine who in the second world war showed true bravery, and should not be forgotten.

Thomas J. KELLY Medal of Honor
Citation: He was an aidman with the 1st Platoon, Co C

During an attack on the town of Alemert, Germany. The platoon, committed in a flanking maneuver had advanced down a small open valley, overlooked by wooded slopes hiding enemy machineguns and tanks, when the attack was stopped by murderous fire that inflicted heavy casualties in the American ranks.

Ordered to withdraw, Cpl. Kelly reached safety with the uninjured remnants of the unit, but, on realizing the extent of casualties suffered by the platoon, he voluntarily retraced his steps and began evacuating his comrades under direct machinegun fire.

He was forced to crawl, dragging the injured behind him for most of the 300 yards separating the exposed area from a place of comparative safety. Two other volunteers who attempted to negotiate the hazardous route with him were mortally wounded, but he kept on with his herculean task after dressing their wounds and carrying them to friendly hands.

In all, he made 10 separate trips through the brutal fire, each time bringing out a man from this death trap. 7 more casualties who were able to crawl by themselves he guided and encouraged in escaping from the hail of fire. After he had completed his heroic, self-imposed task and was near collapse from fatigue, he refused to leave his platoon until the attack had been resumed and the objective taken.

Cpl. Kelly’s gallantry and intrepidity in the face of seemingly certain death saved the lives of many of his fellow soldiers and was an example of bravery under fire.

Medal of Honor Citations

May he and his like not be forgotten, and their true warrior spirit spread to others today under fire around the world.

Elf.

[edit on 9-11-2008 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by cmd18B


Funny, you're not the only one who's asked me that question. I've had like 3 warrants tell me I should go.

Thing is - I'm up for my first look at 7 in 2010 and I want to see if I get picked up before I drop a packet. Plus - I've only been in CI for about a year now. But yeah - more than likely, I'll go to WOCS in the future if I make the Army a career.