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US Military.... why?

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posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 


Please reread my post and try again.

1) Russia was part of the "Allies" during WWII, after Hitler attacked them. No - Russia didn't aid in liberating France - that's right "liberating" France from the Nazis, because remember - you were invaded AND taken over.

2) I didn't say it was solely the US Army - I said the "Allies."

3) Russia may or may not have come all the way to France during the war to save your butts, but we'll never know - they met halfway through Germany w/ the Allies and helped to take Berlin from the Nazis.




posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:04 AM
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It is a popular misconception among Americans that the US voluntarily entered WW2, at least against the Germans. In fact, the US didn't.


THANK YOU!!!!!!!! I, being the WWII buff that I am - didn't know that!!!!

lol

I probably know a great deal more information than you can google right now about World War II, it's my top subject to study and research.

But again, thanks for reminding me of the US' Isolationist stance until Pearl Harbor - I needed the refresher for WWII 101.




posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 


Funny. You said you came from a "long" line of "professional" soldiers. Yet you ask the most ignorant question.

I don't know how it works in whatever force you served in brother, but in the US, we don't get to "decide" to go along w/ our unit or not. We follow "orders" from our "chain of command" regardless of personal feelings.

That being said - we don't follow orders which blantantly break laws.

and THAT being said - I don't need to get into a debate w/ you over the legality of the invasion of Iraq.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by SuperViking

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

Originally posted by SuperViking
Maybe because leaving a nation with such resources as the US has would be like a person without skin? But what do I know, I support the Iraq invasion.


Kind of off topic, but what the deuce:

With such resources....

You thinking about the 2.400.000.000.000$ foreign debt?

You know consuming stuff isn't a resource, producing is.


Can you name two nations with more natural resources than the United States?

Also, you spent time in Saudi Arabia and you're talking about it being immoral to kill your enemies?
That's rich.


I can propably name at least two nations with bigger natural resources than the US based on population and size, can't you?
I'd like you to quote me and show me where I say it's immoral to kill your enemies.
And where do I say I support any country or policy in particular?
Please answer on topic and related to my posts or I'l simply ignore you in the future.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

Originally posted by SuperViking

Can you name two nations with more natural resources than the United States?

Also, you spent time in Saudi Arabia and you're talking about it being immoral to kill your enemies?
That's rich.


I can propably name at least two nations with bigger natural resources than the US based on population and size, can't you?


No- and Chinese intelligence is my job. Russia competes with the US, but the steppes' long winters make its harvesting power much less than the breadbasket of the Midwest. China simply doesn't compare. Land mass does NOT equal resources. Over 75% of China's land is not arable.


I'd like you to quote me and show me where I say it's immoral to kill your enemies.


Right here:


You just admitted to beeing a hired killer without any care for any cause....
One more time; you kill other humans for money!!!
WTF!!!
I don't like getting personal in any discussion, but you sir is a sick puppy and one of the reasons that we live in a world of war. It may come as a suprise to you, but most people in the world have something called moral, look it up if you have to.


If you're going to kill your enemies, you might as well get compensated for doing it.


And where do I say I support any country or policy in particular?


I never said you did, I implied that you should know how hard the world is if you've actually been to those places. But apparently you haven't been or you just weren't paying attention.


Please answer on topic and related to my posts or I'l simply ignore you in the future.


You seem to be ignoring everyone's point anyway, would it make a difference?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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If not for America and Mac Arthur I would not be here.
The Japs would have killed my grandparents.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:47 AM
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Ok, first I want to say I haven't read every post...got up to about page 6, but I'm at work, so I can't spend all day reading through the entire thread. With that being said, if I repeat anything anyone has posted, I apologize.

I just have a couple points I want to make, as I served 4 years in the USAF:

1.) When you sign the dotted lines (yes, 'lines'...plural, there's a LOT of paperwork joining the military lol), you understand what it is you're signing up for...and if you don't understand it, you probably shouldn't be signing. You are US Government property for all intents and purposes. Period.

2.) Most of the posts I've read refer to the military in time of war. My question is, what do you think of us in time of peace? I was lucky enough to serve when there were no major conflicts '96 - '00. The VAST majority of US Military members are not killers...even in time of war, there are many more of us who are NOT firing guns than those who are. So when you see a video of some jackass doing stupid crap in Iraq, that is a HUGE minority of people who are in Iraq, and THOSE people are a huge minority of the overall total number of people in the military.

3.) I noticed a couple posts talking about our servicemen killing innocent people in Iraq. It has happened, yes. I'm not going to pretend innocent people haven't died. But my question to you, then, is this: Why aren't the police departments across our OWN country being chastised for killing innocent americans? You know it happens, and it is ACCIDENTAL in most cases. You wanna rip our military for killing innocents? Then be fair, and rip our own police force too.

4.) QUIT WATCHING THE DAMN NEWS!!!!!! Everything that happens in Iraq and Afghanistan is "death", "destruction", etc...There ARE good things happening in these countries as well...rebuilding of schools, hospitals, water supplies, food supplies, etc...but you don't see this on the news because IT DOESN'T GENERATE RATINGS!!!

5.) Last point I want to make is that I know mistakes have been made regarding the invasion of Iraq...in particular the WMD issue. But one thing I want people to remember is how we got there in the first place...a vote. A vote which OVERWHELMINGLY was in favor of attacking Iraq. Yes, Bush wanted this to happen, but his decision (and many other people's decision) was based on intelligence gathered by the head of CIA, whom, at that time, was a Clinton appointed representative. Don't blame Bush for all of this..."all" being the key word. I know he made mistakes, but the original attack on Iraq was backed by both Republicans and Democrats alike. This vote, at the time, was for the best interest, and safety of our country...in other words, THE DEFENSE OF OUR COUNTRY!!! And nearly EVERYONE voted FOR it. So yes, in this instance, our military WAS being used for DEFENSE. It's sad that the intelligence was false, but as another person posted earlier, would it have been better to blow the hell out of Iraq, find no WMD's, then just leave? Or is it better to blow the hell out of Iraq, find no WMD's, and stick around to help rebuild, and train the Iraqis to defend their own country?

5 things to think about....



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by Jaruseleh
 


Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

It is amazing to me the lack of knowledge some exhibit.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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This actually brings a quote to mind. Granted, it's from a fictional movie but I think it sums thing up nicely.

As Col. Jessup Said in A Few Good Men

"Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use them as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to. "



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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This is not going anywhere, just stupid head-butting. Not only from my adversaries, but from myself aswell.
However i strongly disagree with many of you, and think the U.S military self-appointed role of world police is one it should not have. I think it would be safer for the rest of the world if the U.S would follow guidelines set by the U.N and cooperate with Europe and the Arabic world, but this is politics and off topic. I never said you could make an omelett without breaking eggs, but joining the army out of purely economical reasons still is and will, in my eyes, always be immoral. I'll say it again, I understand that people will die in armed conflicts, that's not my problem (you getting this Luder?). I can respect someone who believe in a cause and then joining armed forces, and then we can discuss that cause in another forum. I stand by my opinion of how I look at the U.S army and the way they treat humans, you have nothing to do in Iraq or in Afghanistan and your leaders are lying to you about what you are doing there.




And your term suggeting the US Army is a "facist" army? My, my. I have good money I would wager that if the US Army had stayed home in WWII, you'd be speaking German right now.

Yeah, the allies mf_Luder..... Right? Thanks for your fantastic WW2 knowledge, seeing how it is your top subject..... i said Russia was allies? Take the time to read my post, and make sure you read them again if you don't remember what I said
(not impressed).

Peace Out & Good Luck

PS: Deutscher ist meine zweite Sprache, was Ihr ist?

PPS: Le Français est ma troisième langue, et vous?

I even have a couple more, but i has nothing to do with Germany winning the war, I just like talking and communicating across language barriers, but hey, that's not patriotic
it's simply astonishing how ignorant I am isn't it?

[edit on 30-1-2009 by SkurkNilsen]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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Been reading through this, and I am amazed that ignorance on such levels even exists. For any man to fight other peoples wars is just a sign that he do not understand the reason of the battle. Some of the american soldiers might think they are on a misson to bring freedom and democracy to the world, but how can they bring democracy when their own country is as far away from a democracy as it is?
And another thing;
Can anybody explain to me the difference between a soldier and a hired killer? Do soldiers ever get to decide who`s the enemy?
And to those who claim to know better because they have been to war, I just feel sorry that you can not see that you are beeing used as a tool for reasons held from you... A real man does not fight on command, he fights for himself.
The only way to bring peace to the world is to understand that we are all the same. The mothers of iraqi and afghan soldiers are as afraid for their sons health as your mothers are for you.
The whole war is a lie, and you know it. If you dont feel that there is anything wrong with the way america thunder ahead I suggest you take some time off, and come back when you are ready to think clear.
I refuse to fight in a war started by men who refused to go to war..

please exuse my language, as english is not my first language..

peace



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by exfed
 

Exfed, I see you are a relative newcomer to ATS, and I sent a U2U message. Can you click on the U2U and read what I sent.

Are you by chance a former Army aviator?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by SkurkNilsen
 


First off, your quote wasn't stated by Luder. It was me.

You go ahead and make your judgments as to morality of a military.

I've met folks like you, and I feel badly for them. As long as they are able to live lives insulated from the harshness that is out there over the horizon, they have mighty high opinions of morality and justice.

But when things go tits up, they drop faster than burdschitt in a downdraft. Sadly, I would estimate that the majority of a population falls into this group.

But fortunately, there is a small percentage of a given population who have the will and the skill to get their hands dirty, to take their turn on the wall, and keep watch over the others.

And when necessary, arm up and meet their destinies in combat.

Those of the military station have been reviled all through recent history by those who assume a loftier station in life. And those are the most pitiful among us all.

In days not too far removed, a canny man with courage, purpose, and a strong right arm could rise to lead entire armies.

You keep your disdain and high moral perspective.

You better hope those lower forms of life continue to do their job, lest you are compelled to defend yourself.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


dooper,

I haven't got U2U usage yet... not enough posts. Read your message though. To answer you question in a most puzzling way that few could interpret:

My first landing was at Fryer field. Things that make the hair stand up... those are my brothers. 62 and senior before the knees fell apart, never got to see my master. The Mog broke my spirit and I went home 2 years later.

Sua Sponte



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by exfed
 

exfed, a belated, but bone-deep welcome home. Though you're home, have you gotten back home yet?

I sent a U2U, and when you get enough points, it will be there.

Of course you can always do as others and say any stupid thing that pops out of your head, for the sole purpose of racking up some points.

As you can see, no intelligence, no rationality, no factual representation, and no common sense required!

Man! Can't wait to talk.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by dooper


Of course you can always do as others and say any stupid thing that pops out of your head, for the sole purpose of racking up some points.




Huh?? When have I said anything that wasn't stooped?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Oh, sorry about that. You're the idiot, not luder.... Or wait a minute, you both are.

You or luder, you're both wrong. And you are both ignoring the ugly facts about yourself.



Hehe, I couldn't care less if you think I'm a covard or whatever, I think both you and you know what I stand for. In my eyes Jihadist warriors have more honour than you could ever fathom (no no no, I did not say I support Jihadist warriors) , they know what they are fighting for at least, you're beeing fed a lie wich you wholeheartedly swallow as it is wrapped in words like; patriotism, bigger cause, war on terror, protecting our interests, stay the course, land of the free, democracy, national security, nations of the willing (best joke ever by Bush by the way), and the rest of that package.
While the rest of the world is opening their eyes your's are closing more and more for every day, I truely feel sorry for you (I know that's hard for you to understand as you need emphaty).

Peace Out, or in your case Peace is Out and it's not coming back on my watch.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by exfed
 


I suppose it would be safe to assume you would never, ever name a daughter 'Irene?'

And as far as saying things that are stupid, I though I had that all cornered up!



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
Oh, sorry about that. You're the idiot, not luder.... Or wait a minute, you both are.

You or luder, you're both wrong. And you are both ignoring the ugly facts about yourself.


You know, your mom will kick her out of her basement when she finds out you get off calling people idiots.




Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
Hehe, I couldn't care less if you think I'm a covard or whatever, I think both you and you know what I stand for. In my eyes Jihadist warriors have more honour than you could ever fathom (no no no, I did not say I support Jihadist warriors) , they know what they are fighting for at least, you're beeing fed a lie wich you wholeheartedly swallow as it is wrapped in words like; patriotism, bigger cause, war on terror, protecting our interests, stay the course, land of the free, democracy, national security, nations of the willing (best joke ever by Bush by the way), and the rest of that package.


Oh, and you don't think that the jihadists aren't being fed a line of crap from their leaders?

Sorry, Junge, but I know what I fight for. I really don't give a rats ass if you understand that or not. I will not be losing any sleep.

Now, run along and be a good example. Move out and draw fire.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by SuperViking

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

Originally posted by SuperViking

Can you name two nations with more natural resources than the United States?

Also, you spent time in Saudi Arabia and you're talking about it being immoral to kill your enemies?
That's rich. answer: Please explain how me living in Saudi has anything to do with that and I'll give you a better answer?



I can propably name at least two nations with bigger natural resources than the US based on population and size, can't you?


No- and Chinese intelligence is my job. Russia competes with the US, but the steppes' long winters make its harvesting power much less than the breadbasket of the Midwest. China simply doesn't compare. Land mass does NOT equal resources. Over 75% of China's land is not arable.
Answer: You just choose to forget your foreig debt?


I'd like you to quote me and show me where I say it's immoral to kill your enemies.


Right here:


You just admitted to beeing a hired killer without any care for any cause....
One more time; you kill other humans for money!!!
WTF!!!
I don't like getting personal in any discussion, but you sir is a sick puppy and one of the reasons that we live in a world of war. It may come as a suprise to you, but most people in the world have something called moral, look it up if you have to.



If you're going to kill your enemies, you might as well get compensated for doing it.
Answer: Here i re-state that I have a problem with people killing other people for money. And what make the people of Iraq and Afghanistan your enemy?


And where do I say I support any country or policy in particular?


I never said you did, I implied that you should know how hard the world is if you've actually been to those places. But apparently you haven't been or you just weren't paying attention.
Answer: I have never been to Iraq or Afghanistan, you are right, but I do have first hand repports not biased by the media and as I have earlier stated, I think it gives me a great advantage over the people who is in the situation.


Please answer on topic and related to my posts or I'l simply ignore you in the future.


You seem to be ignoring everyone's point anyway, would it make a difference?
Answer: Well.....



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