Calihan, read my posts I said the US/UK and many others are responsible, did I say just the US no I did not. And this threrad is about Americans and America being arrogant well yes they are and it is. One only has to look on these boards for the attitude of many Americans and althought they do not speak for all they do represent the current mindset of the Goverment and its murderous Foreign Policy.

I think you guys are way off. "america is the single greatest force for good the world has ever known"??? come on, we've installed 16 dictators in nations around the world, we killed at least 2 million vietnamese on an ideological difference, and killed 750000 laosians and 500000 cambodians at the same time. We murdered 500000 philipinos to steal their land, not to mention the debated millions of native americans. We are currently responsible for the deaths of 1.2 million iraqi's in a war ostensibly about money and control, a country by the way, that never attacked america. We are staging for a war with iran, a country that has also never attacked the US and has only been at war with 1 country in the last 100 years, and thats a war we pushed! We put Saddam into power and supported him, we created the taliban. And we dropped 2 nuclear bombs on mostly women and children in a country that had been begging us to accept their surrender for months, all so we could intimidate the USSR that we knew we would be in conflict with next.
If THIS is a picture of the "greatest force for good" in the world, than our world is in a bad situation.

Hah, I was just reminded of another aspect of America that makes me angry, the attitude that they are somehow saviors of the universe, and without them we would all die a horrible death.

Guess what, you are not heroes to the rest of the world. Iraq wasn't about "freeing the people" it was about installing a government that would sign an Oil deal with the UK and the US.

A real hero nation would be stepping in to help in the Sudanese crisis, the current humanitarian catastrophe in the DR Congo, the massive violence perpetrated on the Zimbabwean people during their "election".
Now that would be a country I'd happily hear calling themselves heroes of the world.

And no, Britain doesn't do much of the heroics either, but at least the British know it and don't have this bizarre delusion that they are somehow traveling the world to "help" the poor people.

I guess it's all about the arrogance really. But it shocks me that some Americans still think this way even after they saw what their own country did to its own people in New Orleans.

Originally posted by pexx421
I think you guys are way off. "america is the single greatest force for good the world has ever known"??? come on, we've installed 16 dictators in nations around the world, we killed at least 2 million vietnamese on an ideological difference, and killed 750000 laosians and 500000 cambodians at the same time. We murdered 500000 philipinos to steal their land, not to mention the debated millions of native americans. We are currently responsible for the deaths of 1.2 million iraqi's in a war ostensibly about money and control, a country by the way, that never attacked america. We are staging for a war with iran, a country that has also never attacked the US and has only been at war with 1 country in the last 100 years, and thats a war we pushed! We put Saddam into power and supported him, we created the taliban. And we dropped 2 nuclear bombs on mostly women and children in a country that had been begging us to accept their surrender for months, all so we could intimidate the USSR that we knew we would be in conflict with next.
If THIS is a picture of the "greatest force for good" in the world, than our world is in a bad situation.

you keep saying "we" as though you and i are the ones doing it. WE arent. the GOVERNMENT is. its the government that is corrupt, not america.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Hah, I was just reminded of another aspect of America that makes me angry, the attitude that they are somehow saviors of the universe, and without them we would all die a horrible death.

Guess what, you are not heroes to the rest of the world. Iraq wasn't about "freeing the people" it was about installing a government that would sign an Oil deal with the UK and the US.

A real hero nation would be stepping in to help in the Sudanese crisis, the current humanitarian catastrophe in the DR Congo, the massive violence perpetrated on the Zimbabwean people during their "election".
Now that would be a country I'd happily hear calling themselves heroes of the world.

And no, Britain doesn't do much of the heroics either, but at least the British know it and don't have this bizarre delusion that they are somehow traveling the world to "help" the poor people.

I guess it's all about the arrogance really. But it shocks me that some Americans still think this way even after they saw what their own country did to its own people in New Orleans.

I understand what your saying, and I cant speak on other people's parts, but I do my part in helping. I know I do as much as I can to try and help people here in this country, as well as other ones. And I know theres many people in this country just like me. But how many countries do you see donating things to america? Coming over here to build homes for the homeless?

think about it for a minute and get back to me.

Calihan, countries do not consist of Goverments they consist of the people, and up to quite recently the American people accepted and supported the WOT and many still do, there are no innocents out there, just misinformed people.

No, the president we have cheated his way into office. If you look, the majority of people voted for Al Gore that first time bush was elected. Gore had a higher percentage of actual votes.

Now , george bush being voted a second time is something I myself cant understand. Youve got me there. But I sure as heck didnt vote for him, and many people didnt. And I think many people including republicans are now realizing how much of a change we need. I think we will see that when our new president is elected. It's going to be obama. I know it is because I know so many people want to see something different happen for us.

I will say that this is the best thing that Obama brings to the table. I think our enemies will be more at ease. I think it may have a good effect on our standing with the world.

I also hope that people in other countries do not stereotype Americans for a people who say ridiculous things. The majority of people don't want war. The majority of people hear are good caring individuals Nothing good ever comes of it. People just want to live their lives, earn a living, and take care of their families. I don't want us at war. I'd love to see the world as a better place for everyone.

Apathy... sometimes I feel great apathy for "the world".

I would LOVE to pull back to our hemisphere and let the world take care of itself. We have enough problems at home now and cannot and should not be the "World Police".

Let the Europeans take a shot at the "thankless" job of securing world stability. We have much better things to spend our borrowed money on.

Honor our defense commitments with our naval & air resources, maintain a few bases where wanted and utilize our military to clean up our own problems with cargo inspection & border security. Hell, we have the Mexican Army working for drug lords, running drugs over the border, sending in hit squads into the continental US... Yeah, I can see a much better nation building strategy.... Clean out the drug lords and secure the border.

Turn New Mexico into an "Algae Oil" farm and become 100% energy independent. I bet a 100 Billion of investment can make that a reality.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by infolurker]

When i say "we" its because as long as we continue paying taxes we are funding the terrible things our leaders do around the world, and long as we are not out there stopping these people, with force if necessary, we are aiding them in their agenda for domination and hegemony. "all that is necessary for evil to have victory is for good people to do nothing." If you are giving a man money, and he is using that money to buy guns to rob and hurt people, and you know this, and you say how terrible he is for doing that but you continue to give him that money than yes, YOU are partly responsible for what he does.

Originally posted by pexx421
When i say "we" its because as long as we continue paying taxes we are funding the terrible things our leaders do around the world, and long as we are not out there stopping these people, with force if necessary, we are aiding them in their agenda for domination and hegemony. "all that is necessary for evil to have victory is for good people to do nothing." If you are giving a man money, and he is using that money to buy guns to rob and hurt people, and you know this, and you say how terrible he is for doing that but you continue to give him that money than yes, YOU are partly responsible for what he does.

actually no. I havent had a job for a year so i havent paid my taxes in the last year

But i see your point. I just dont see how you can blame people for that when, if we dont pay our taxes, we go to jail or get fined.

Originally posted by calihan123
also, for you saying we are the reason for so many countries suffering... we are the country that helps the world the MOST. we donate more food than any other country. We volunteer more than any other country. Give me a friggin break dude.

yeah! you donate the most amount of bombs! The truth is the US pledge money but don't always deliver, e.g. the boxing day tsunami,the Iranian earthquake....I'm sure there is plenty more examples.It seems if it doesnt benefit the US they leave well alone.

I have always been a supporter of the US but since visiting several times and viewing some of the comments on this site I became really disenchanted by the self importance and arrogance I have met from some americans. A post in this thread saying 'we won ww1 and ww2...Thats like a football player being part of a winning team and turning around saying 'I won that game all by myself', you go round doing that and of course people are going to be saying who does this guy think he is! I'd also like to know where that poster received their history lessons on WW1.

A few examples of conversations I had on my last visit to the US...

Bus to Boston
Man next to me:So Where you from?
Me:England.
Man: Oh what language do you guys speak over there?
Me:Erm English...
Man: Oh the same as us then.....Do you know the queen?

Bar in New York:
Bartender: so I guess you guys over in England are worried about the war in Iraq huh?
Me: Oh whys that?
Bartender: well the chance of it spilling over the border....

I find it somewhat encouraging that after 8 years of bush minor, the world hasn't written us off as hopeless yet.

Originally posted by onetruesaxon

Originally posted by calihan123
also, for you saying we are the reason for so many countries suffering... we are the country that helps the world the MOST. we donate more food than any other country. We volunteer more than any other country. Give me a friggin break dude.

yeah! you donate the most amount of bombs! The truth is the US pledge money but don't always deliver, e.g. the boxing day tsunami,the Iranian earthquake....I'm sure there is plenty more examples.It seems if it doesnt benefit the US they leave well alone.

I have always been a supporter of the US but since visiting several times and viewing some of the comments on this site I became really disenchanted by the self importance and arrogance I have met from some americans. A post in this thread saying 'we won ww1 and ww2...Thats like a football player being part of a winning team and turning around saying 'I won that game all by myself', you go round doing that and of course people are going to be saying who does this guy think he is! I'd also like to know where that poster received their history lessons on WW1.

A few examples of conversations I had on my last visit to the US...

Bus to Boston
Man next to me:So Where you from?
Me:England.
Man: Oh what language do you guys speak over there?
Me:Erm English...
Man: Oh the same as us then.....Do you know the queen?

Bar in New York:
Bartender: so I guess you guys over in England are worried about the war in Iraq huh?
Me: Oh whys that?
Bartender: well the chance of it spilling over the border....

Im not a typical "all-american" person. I am liberal, ive moved all over and lived all over this country in many different environments, and met different people. What im saying about america is that everyone at the end of the day wants this country to be better. Everyone has their own beliefs, everyone votes on different things. Some people fight in war, others protest. But at the end of the day we all want what is best for you friends, our family, and our country.

We dont randomly go bomb places every day. And a lot of people here do help. I dont give to major organizations that I dont trust, I give to people who go to other countries and start their own relief funds. I try and help people in this country as well. I volunteer. I dont make a lot of money but I still give back what I can. People can make a difference in their daily lives, and should stop saying the government is responsible for the things that happen. We can make our own lives better if we choose to, and we can help in our own ways if we choose to, but many dont.

Originally posted by andy1033
For people living in a fantasy of hollywood cr*p, america will still be killing and torturing people under obama, if he wins.

Amazing how ignorant people are, they think the president has all this power, to control things in america.

This is not true. We hope you aren't so (quote) "arrogant" like you were if you voted Bush the 2nd term and that you elect somebody that far differs from Bush. And that is not McCain.

We look over there, and hope people have the guts to finally vote a man with a black Kenyan father that was once a Muslim, a caucasian mother, raised in Indonsia and Hawaii, with his black family and roots all over the world into the White House. A man that literally wears the unity of people in his heart.

And NOT another white angry lying terrorist. Effing nobody outside America understood why +50% of you voted Bush AGAIN. And we hope that this time you are going to deny ignorance, and finally vote for the lesser of two evil, instead of voting the cold-war-fear-mongering-torture-war-crap guy.

It's not the fact who is the president, it is that YOU as a people made the right choice, voted for the smart peaceful young guy with international roots. If you wanna have influence all over the world, then who's better than a international uniting man?

+Ninety per cent in the world are a great majority. Why is that you wonder? Are you really so ignorant to ignore this? "Oh man, eff it, it's just the world after all. God bless America". That's what I meant with above quoted arrogance.

[edit on 4.11.2008 by SiONiX]

I think this economic crisis has humbled our country, as well as our poorly run wars. People are realizing we are not invincible, we are not the only country that matters, we are not the beacon of culture and civilization to the world. But we may turn it around now. With Obama people worldwide will have newfound respect for the decision making ability of the american people. We will have warmer relations with not only our allies but also with neutralish countries. This may buy us some good will back in the international community, regaining some of that lost credibility and confidence in American leadership and american values. The message is that we aren't all war mongering cowboys/hicks who put handicapped people on death row (or do they still do that in Texas, I forget?) and torture innocents. Maybe some renewed trust in america is what we need to help achieve our foreign policy goals, rather than the imperialistic, jingoist method of late.

calihan....i always have trouble arguing with someone as beautiful as you... however, randomly bombing all over is EXACTLY what it seems america is doing right now. We have had violent actions in other countries around 70 times since the end of WWII, installed 16 dictatorships, and assassinated 2 rulers of foreign countries. We urge the FARC in columbia to put down their weapons and join the government in their country if they want recognition, then sit by as 5000 of them are executed for doing that over the next 2 years. So on and so on,

I dont by any means group our people with our government, but we criticize the iraqi people for not overthrowing saddam when he committed atrocities, so how can we hold ourselves free from responsibility as our government does the same thing and we cant be bothered to do anything about it because we're to busy watching football, drinking coke, and driving our mustangs?? I respect your love for your people, and i love our people too.....but i dont dismiss all of our responsibility for the the condition of the world, because that is the shared responsibility of all humankind, a responsibility we are all failing miserably. Anyone who can say that we as humans do not do more damage to our world than good, is someone who is not looking at the world realistically. The animals arent better off because of us, the ecology of the world is not better off, some of our most advanced societies live lives lacking in humanitarian love and spirit, and some of our simplest and least advanced societies hold to lives of spiritual and loving fullfilment that most americans can only long for. Unfortunately its the soulless and sick industrial giants that are driving the machine of the world and not the simplistic fonts of simple wisdom that used to exist in communal tribal societies.

Originally posted by pexx421
calihan....i always have trouble arguing with someone as beautiful as you... however, randomly bombing all over is EXACTLY what it seems america is doing right now. We have had violent actions in other countries around 70 times since the end of WWII, installed 16 dictatorships, and assassinated 2 rulers of foreign countries. We urge the FARC in columbia to put down their weapons and join the government in their country if they want recognition, then sit by as 5000 of them are executed for doing that over the next 2 years. So on and so on,

I dont by any means group our people with our government, but we criticize the iraqi people for not overthrowing saddam when he committed atrocities, so how can we hold ourselves free from responsibility as our government does the same thing and we cant be bothered to do anything about it because we're to busy watching football, drinking coke, and driving our mustangs?? I respect your love for your people, and i love our people too.....but i dont dismiss all of our responsibility for the the condition of the world, because that is the shared responsibility of all humankind, a responsibility we are all failing miserably. Anyone who can say that we as humans do not do more damage to our world than good, is someone who is not looking at the world realistically. The animals arent better off because of us, the ecology of the world is not better off, some of our most advanced societies live lives lacking in humanitarian love and spirit, and some of our simplest and least advanced societies hold to lives of spiritual and loving fullfilment that most americans can only long for. Unfortunately its the soulless and sick industrial giants that are driving the machine of the world and not the simplistic fonts of simple wisdom that used to exist in communal tribal societies.

Yeah. Well hopefully we start seeing that america does want to change . I think we arlready are seeing that, with obama being the predicted winner of the presidency. People are ready for a change, they dont like whats going on in the world. So, hopefully our true demeanors are starting to show to the rest of the world.