We're heading into our own elections here in New Zealand.

Many I speak to hold the "What does it matter if I don't vote?" frame of mind...be it through apathy, be it through doubt their voice and vote will count, be it through a belief that its all rigged anyway.

My response to them is: "The only voice truly not heard is the voice not spoken".

Rigged - maybe
No vote - no voice - definite.


Peace.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by alien]

TPTB do not take such chances. They are not gamblers. If the electoral process at the highest level was not a rigged and foregone conclusion from the beginning, more people on the ballot would get air time and debate time. Open forum debates with all of the candidates went away a long time ago because there is always a candidate that speaks the truth in a live and open forum and asks challenging questions of the other candidates and citizenry. The closer we get to global domination, the worse this process gets.

I did not vote for potus. I found out in the past that it is not the will of the people that decides the vote. It has been said that the popular vote determines the electoral vote and the electoral vote determines the president. Not exactly true when you think back on how Bush won a presidency by losing the popular vote. I live in Mississippi. We have exactly zilch when it comes to electoral swaying power on this campaign.
I did not vote locally. the last 3 times I voted for state and local, I saw candidates that I did not vote for win and then abuse their position by absolutely not representing the people that elected them.

I am going to keep complaining everytime something happens that I dont agree with, regardless of my choice not to vote. I pay taxes. I have been paying them for over 20 years. I think that earns me a spot on the soapbox when I feel it is warranted.

Besides, my write-in candidate is not going to win. I tried to get the word out about Bugs and Daffy, but I doubt many heard my message.

Heh, I'm not alone in this?
I didn't vote because I saw that if I did vote I'd be the cause of a problem, whether it be for McCain or Obama, and if I didn't vote I'd still be a problem in some people's eyes. So I just went with my own natural thing and sat at home eating pizza while playing a game. Two exams in one day and I could use the relaxation. Plus from the things I read on this site, the people who the powers that are in control will make sure those candidates win anyway so...whats the point really? Democracy seems to have been gone from this country a long time ago..(From the things I read on here, and some I took with a grain of salt but overtime found them to be quite interesting as they kept re-appearing.)

And I don't believe that the issues surrounding 9/11 are completely the Bush Administration's fault. Rather, it isn't important who is the premier personality in the Presidency...

Sadly, I think larger forces are at play and our current hierarchy is a sham...what will happen will happen...without due process...

reply to post by MemoryShock

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I also agree with you that the majority of the time, the voting process is not "fixed"; however, please explain how the electoral vote can overturn the popular vote?

This is one of those special "democratic" social reform elections. I have been following the state of international and national affairs for quite some time. Bush's government (for he is not alone running this country) was able to apply new powers to government, making it stronger than the people, alienated the US from the majority of other countries with the invasion of Iraq, went in debt a little too far, and now the "powers that be" have decided to give the people a few crumbs this election with a charismatic leader that promises to do something for the people of the US in order to prevent the unrest that is sure to come when foreign loans stop and the US collapses under the weight of its own debt.

Did you not think it was odd that the media coverage was all about Obama vs. Mrs. Clinton? Even the coverage that followed the wake of the democratic selection was geared toward Obama? Obama is the crumb being used to satisfy the starving nation. This bought the "powers that be" at least four years to globally/nationally restrengthen its hold. Obama is muslim and the US has invaded a muslim country. How would you get a country's people to stop resisting and support the US invasion both here and in Iraq? Give them a muslim democrat.

It is simply in the design of the system of things. The "powers that be" need the resources in Iraq. The US will not pull out until the US controls that country's resource. That is how a core country remains #1. Does your vote matter? Only to you. A democrat was to win the election this year regardless. It was a gift handed to the "powers that be" for it to be a muslim. Does that matter? Only to the Iraq people.

Now we can watch for the real character of Obama to either come out and stand up for the people of this country or go along with the power and simply give crumbs when necessary while the power usurps this country of resources and the rest of the world.

Personally, I did not choose the lessor of two evils. I wrote in my selection. That way, I reserve the right to complain about who the rest of the country voted for. You should have voted, even if you did like I did and chose option "C". Not voting gives less credit to your future complaints.

Heres my opinon,


If you belive the system is 100% rigged, then you, and those who think like you, should BAN together, and write in a certain name.


Then, when the results are released, look to see if your vote counted...

If you have 10 people write in Mickey Mouse, and there are only 2 votes for Mickey Mouse on the OFFICAL results, then INDEED there is something wroung there.


By just note voting, you are playing into their plan... They don't want us to vote, they HATE that we are still a semi-free nation... But, our RIGHT to vote is the Mechinism that DRIVES our society.


And, personaly, the vote for the POTUS was the LEAST important issue on the Ballot.


[edit on 11/4/2008 by TKainZero]

I am not protesting. I am abstaining.

Hope that helps...

reply to post by MemoryShock

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I just find it hard to believe that things are gonna change for the better.... changing the Player may give you a better chance but you're still playing in the same (Snip) up game, plain and simple.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 4-11-2008 by asala]

I respectfully disagree. As I have stated prior, I give my heart and soul to this website. In so doing, I help people to determine why exactly they think and believe what they do.

I spend every day doing this. Many people only spend a day to vote and only because they are worried what their Mothers would think.

Two months from now, I will be discoursing on the end of the Bush Administration. Many people who have voted today will be shopping.

My complaints are not complaints. It is bourne of a desire for collaborative analysis...beyond election day...

voting is a right, not voting is a right; for anyone to frown upon someone who exercises their American right NOT to vote doesn't understand America at all...

voters have no arguement towards anyone who has the same freedoms they do; it's just as easy to argue that a vote for either of the 'faux-2-party' candidates is a vote to prop up a phony, criminal system, and to support globalism; a choice 'not to' is just as powerful as a choice 'to'...

wagging a finger at someone who doesn't vote is like saying, "we shouldn't be able to decide for ourselves how to run our own lives"..

not voting is patriotism, just as much as voting is...

down with the fake 2 party system !!

MemoryShock, I chose to vote (actually last week in early voting) because I still feel that local elections aren't completely corrupt. Heck, If Ron Paul can still get elected to congress after the pain in the neck he has been to the establishment, I still have some faith, however limited in our electoral system.

I totally agree with you about the top job though. Perhaps the bastards allow us to actually choose, but we choose between the two candidates that they have chosen. It doesn't really matter who wins to them. Both candidates know that if they stepped out of line... they would will be JFK'd. Simple as that.

So yeah, I played the fool and went along with the process. I don't however blame you a bit for not.

I agree, I'm not protesting anything either. I'm abstaining because I want no part of this dog-and-pony show. I haven't even watched TV today and other than the Stewart/Colbert thing tonight I have no intention of watching any.

I pay attention, I know what's going on, and I'm not fooled by this whole bit of theater.

reply to post by MemoryShock

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Hi Mr. Shock

I'm not sure I agree with you that which of the two puppets gets elected will have no effect – because I tend to see things in sociological and anthropological rather than political terms.

My answer to your original questions is:

1) no I don't think that anyone who is not pre-approved by the PTB would be allowed to win, nor do I think that which man wins will make much difference in the power structure of our country, directly.

2) I think that it will have an impact in the consciousness of the nation, and I believe that in history's long run, changes in how people think drive political and paradigmatic change.

On the other hand, I think that you have the right to do what makes sense to you. And I want to thank you for making me think about the phrase "civic duty," and how it yet again dichotomizes us into "those who do" and "those who don't." We are free to not vote, as well as free to vote. Others have addressed the pitfalls of not participating in the political process on the local level – I think you can weigh those yourself.

Maybe I'm just still not quite cynical enough to think that change isn't possible, even if it takes decades or centuries rather than months.

When a magician asks you to choose a card, do you really think it matters which card you choose? Would the trick not work if you chose a different card? Or for those who prefer chess analogies, if I threaten both your queen and a rook with my knight, do you really think I care which you let me have? Oh, sure. The game will go more quickly if you give me your queen. But I don't really expect you to, and either way I take a valuable piece.

I'm suggesting that both candidates are acceptable to the "powers that be." But within that framework, there probably is some room for either of the parties to cheat and finagle their way to the top. The parties themselves aren't the "powers that be." They're tools.



If you're voting for one of the two choices that have been handed to you, it isn't really relevant. But like in chess, when you're offered a queen-rook split, you do have a third option: place your opponent in check.

In about an hour I'l be leaving to go write in Ron Paul.

If enough people did the same, it would matter.

If not, well...*shrug* at least I'll have done the right thing.


[edit on 4-11-2008 by LordBucket]

lets just simplify this thread. a misinformed, ignorant, and bias vote, is no better than nothing at all. that is that stupid fuc&^%$ lesser of two evils mentality that people have adapted. millions are out there voting for obama because he is black, millions are out there voting for mccain because he is a good ol white war vet, regardless of his stupid vp.

people in this country are voting mainly based off of the ideas, and news that has been spoon fed to them through mostly unworthy sources. that is no good. democracy is an ideal illusion, that is no longer existent, if it ever was, in this country. you cannot efficiently have democracy in a stupid society. would anyone here put trust in the hands of people based purely off of hope and emotion, thats ridiculous. tens of millions of americans cant even properly use google, the 1000 dollar computers they own, or their own damn cell phones, and they in some way should be able to take place in the voting process, and make strong decisions for the country, when most people in america, if were ask what is democracy, would have no clean cut answer.

please

if you dont vote, you cant complain has to be the all time idiot line of the 20th and 21st century. really, my other interactions within the government, like my freaking taxes, dont give me the right to complain. oh, i should still go to the ballot and do something. FOR FUC#$%^ WHAT. so i can feel like a good ol proud american because i went to at least go do something.

so any dummy who goes to vote, and lacks even the most basic awareness of the candidates, politics, democracy, etc..., is better than people significantly smarter than them that didnt vote because of their awareness of the greater problems that corrupt our politics, and our world. if that makes sense to you, than you are unworthy of life. you have wasted your "god" given potential, and you should be ashamed of yourself for allowing yourself to breath for this long.

And if I can make a difference in this vein, it would be to communicate that 'voting' is not the only way to make a difference.

I value the process, as it does allow for an empowerment of the people. However, I am not entirely convinced that the empowerment is illusionary.

In my opinion, "I do". Everyday. I have waited for election day to say this...the construct of society is not a quadrennial concern. It is an everyday concern.

The tops dogs on the ticket. 2 sides of the same coin, I agree.
However, there are many local issues, bonds, judges, councilmen where your vote matters. And not only that, your vote is 1 for 1..no electoral crap.

Those issues, I researched thoroughly. They affect me directly.
This year was a very important vote on imminent domain, and another on water usage versus community planning.

I vote in an hour, and still have not picked my presidential choice..It's down to 2 people..

reply to post by Hal9000

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Yeah, but your HAL9000, you can't be trusted either.
I voted for Nixon in 72 and he won, voted for Clinton in 92 and he won.. Both of them disappointed me.. I believed both of them and they both lied. I am not going to be even partly responsible for electing another politician to an office of authority if I don't feel that I can trust them.

I also don't understand why Ron Paul didn't win in a landslide.

I am also proud to say that I am not voting for a puppeted election either. I will also not participate in the madness that ensues. Not my candidates, not worth my vote!

I can complain all I want if I didn't vote, you need to think twice before spouting off MSM bs. D-bags tell me that I have no voice if I don't vote (which is what the MSM tells them), but by me not voting I am letting my voice be heard, fact is YOUR VOTE DOSE'NT COUNT, so, please quit spouting bs, and don't you dare tell someone to stop complaining, what are you doing to change things? Giving into the same old corrupt system? That's not change, that's more of the same.

-Lahara