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I Didn't Vote.

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posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by fleabit
Just another example of Amercians taking for granted, rights that so many other countries (and our own, years ago), do not have. So many countries where there is one person on the ballot.... you have no choice. Every time I meet someone from another country who has become a citizen in ours, they are just thrilled and estatic that they can place a vote.

When I served on jury duty 3 years ago, and again in Grand Jury recently (an 18 month stint no less), I was amazed at the people I talked with, both in the courtroom, and in my office. The amount of people that would do everything within their power to "get out" of jury duty staggers me. There are so few countries that even allow you to be tried by a jury of your peers.... most would give their left eye to have our court system. And they'd find it a *great* honor to serve in that process. And yet in America, most I talk to feel it's a burden... a chore.. something to "get out of." It's disheartening.

There were 16 cantidates on the ballot this year for President. I find it hard to believe anyone could find all 16 cantidates equally bad and not worth voting for. Regardless of they were all terrible (and they are not), you have a choice to make the best of a bad situation. Choosing to do nothing at all is just burying your head in the sand.


If you were of the belief all our top politicians are corporate shills you might feel the same and understand his point. All 16 candidates are "approved" by the money givers. Do you really think they represent our best interests?




posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by fleabit
 


I would participate in jury duty should the option present itself. That is a different animal than the voting process in my opinion and something I wouldn't take lightly.

Again, completely different.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by magnetik
 


They also died for my right "not" to vote. I get tired of the guilt trips people put on others for not voting. They make it seem as though it is a priveledge that people died to give us.... NO, it is not. It is a "right". We have the "right" to choose as we want. I voted in my local elections, and refused to vote in the presidential election. It is a sham, and even the 3rd party candidates were not to my liking.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Solarskye

Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel
If you didn't vote, then don't complain.


What!
Their are voters out there that shouldn't complain. Those who take no responsibility for their life. Those living off government and making babies they can't afford but yet they can vote.

No !" not voting " has nothing to do with complaining. If I decided not to vote but work my butt off and pay taxes and do all I can do to support my family and keep this economy going then I have a right to complain anytime I like. To many people have fought and died for this country to be denied a voice because they didn't vote.


No I am afraid that you do not have a right to complain about decisions that Obama and his government make if you do not agree with them.
If you voted for Obama and he goes back on his promises then you have the right to complain that he is not doing the job that you voted him in to do.
If you voted for McCain (or anyone else) then you have a right to complain when the new admistration does not please you because it is a way of perhaps persuading people to listen to your arguments and vote along the same lines as you next time.

If you did not vote, did not stand up and be counted (and you have that right) then fine, that is your choice and one I respect. However do not copmplain when things don't go as you would like as you did nothing whatsoever to try and influence the outcome of the election. It is a question of taking responsibilty for your inaction



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 



Man I wish I could vote for YOU ....If I could on here I would! Very very well said.



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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I respect the decision to not vote, as I have a few friends who do all they can to avoid the turmoil of politics. To be honest I don't blame them this year, seeing as how the elections are getting ugly for the voters themselves. 0o Yes, yes, Obama won. Some of you can stop calling the McCain supporters racist !@$( now.


I say vote when you have the chance. You're voting local, despite the presidential elections going on. This is a union of states, remember. When the voting issue was brought up in the drafting of the Constitution, the larger and smaller states were divided on procedure. The smaller states didn't want to go by popular vote, lest they lose any say in the elections, and the larger states didn't want to give the smaller states a disproportionate amount of power by voting via representative. What we have now may make it seem that your vote doesn't matter, but it's as close to a balance as we can get. Should your candidate win the state, then your vote has an even larger impact. If it did not, well, at least you voted on other important local elections and issues.

There have been considerations for a state (Colorado/Utah??) to switch it's electoral vote to reflect its popular vote. I believe that didn't go through. If the electoral vote (especially for just one or two states) reflected a state's popular vote instead, then the state itself would lose a lot of its own say and power in the elections. It sucks, but the candidates aren't going to bother with your state if they can get all of the votes in another.

I myself didn't' like either of the main candidates. But you certainly cannot tell me that it doesn't matter who would take the office. Someone on that ballot still represents me more than the others. That gives me an obligation to vote.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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I posted this response to the "you didn't vote so you have no right to complain" mantra in another thread and would like to add some thoughts in response to some the things I have read in this thread:



Why, WHY do you people say stuff like this? Do you have ANY idea how close minded and retarded those "one line zingers" sound? Of course you don't because you like to feel better (pompous) than those that don't vote. Well let me tell you something buddy, I have never voted, did not this time and I CAN complain and there isn't a DAMN THING you can do about it! So get off your damn high horse and try to understand and appreciate WHY some people choose not to vote instead of responding with more "one line zingers" that do nothing but shut down intelligent discourse. I live here, the actions and decisions those politicians make effect MY LIFE and I have EVERY right to complain and defend my position. You wanna feel good about yourself by engaging in a completely corrupted "election" race so you have a "right" to complain, fine do it but don't tell me I have "no right to complain" and expect to get away with saying crap like that just because it is a common "One line zinger" response to positions contrary to your own. Have some damn common respect!


In my case, I have become so disgusted, so disenfranchised and so very sick and tired of the way things are (and have been) with no end in sight that I've reached a boiling point of just not caring anymore. A person can only take so much before they become galvanized against a particular dynamic. And PLEASE don't insult my intelligence by saying "well do something about it ." Any discerning individual can ascertain via direct observation that voting doesn't, in the end, change much of anything. Gas prices still go up and down, politicians still lie, cheat and steal. The government still engages in near constant conflicts, the forced (not constitutional) income tax still takes our money, lobbyists still render the voice of the people null and void with their deep pockets and hidden agendas, etc, etc. ALL this has been and still does go on regardless of which party is in "control" of the government. So that begs the questions of who is really in control of the government and WHY do many people insist on holding on the beLIEf that voting actually changes anything of major consequence. You people that insist on tossing around these mindless slogans whilst feeling good about yourselves really need to examine WHY you are doing it and what belief structure or paradigm is guiding you into this consistent behavior. People generally like to consider themselves dynamic and ever changing, well from my perspective that is not the case. People want to find something they can believe in (government, voting, a religion, science, whatever) then defend the walls of that belief with all their might against any and all perspectives that may damage that belief. The voting system in this country is crap, broken and needs to be completely re-done. Until the vote of EVERY person that has voted is actually counted in a REAL direct populace vote (no middle men, no electoral college crap) I'm not voting for anyone on ANY subject, EVER. Those of you that can't deal with that, fine, but expect some fire in return of your damn "one line zingers."

And just for the record, as I saw this subject come up briefly. I was called for local jury duty and I rejected it. I answered their form honestly and would have made an excellent and discerning juror. However, my final statement on the form indicated my lack of faith and trust in the "Justice system" and that the compensation offered was not nearly enough to cover the loss of income from having to take a week off work. I was excused with no complaints. I made a choice based on my principles and experiences, just as the thread starter has done and no amount of retarded "one line zingers" can take away from the validity of that choice.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by observer28]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 09:34 AM
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Well....this has been one of the rare times I've ventured into the political forums.

Ick.

It's clear to me now--maybe not you, the reader--how the politicians and corporations have been increasingly able to get away with it.

Citizen(?) apathy and confusion have successfully caused many people to disenfranchise themselves. The politicians didn't even need some nefarious gerrymandering or legislation to do it.

Not a single opinion expressed here has as yet impressed me enough to justify the refusal to use 1-2 hours, every four years, and cast a vote. The aggregate time spent here on ATS, truly accomplishing diddly squat, is not a good substitute.

Because really....despite the activist attitudes and words.....have any of you changed anything with your posts? And can you legitimately claim to have tried? I can....because I went to the polling place and cast a vote.

I tried.

Some of you....sadly....

DID NOT......
......and you're still frickin' whining.



And now I'll take my leave of the "political" forums.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by MrPenny
Well....this has been one of the rare times I've ventured into the political forums.

Ick.

It's clear to me now--maybe not you, the reader--how the politicians and corporations have been increasingly able to get away with it.

Citizen(?) apathy and confusion have successfully caused many people to disenfranchise themselves. The politicians didn't even need some nefarious gerrymandering or legislation to do it.

Not a single opinion expressed here has as yet impressed me enough to justify the refusal to use 1-2 hours, every four years, and cast a vote. The aggregate time spent here on ATS, truly accomplishing diddly squat, is not a good substitute.

Because really....despite the activist attitudes and words.....have any of you changed anything with your posts? And can you legitimately claim to have tried? I can....because I went to the polling place and cast a vote.

I tried.

Some of you....sadly....

DID NOT......
......and you're still frickin' whining.



And now I'll take my leave of the "political" forums.


Sigh..and YOU have NOT provided a valid argument of WHY voting even matters anymore. So you participated in the corrupted systems accepted and heavily pushed means of "blowing off steam" or "having your voice heard"? Big deal, good for you. YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING except that which you are told is an acceptable form of civic expression. It is accepted because it doesn't actually and practically change anything! Get that thru you damn head. Some people on this board are voicing concerns here because that system that purports to represent them doesn't give a damn about them. YOU, mr. penny have only provided a more verbose version of the mindless slogan "you didn't vote and I did so you don't matter and can't complain and I can." However, in this case you have "zinged and ran" since you won't see this response if you really are taking your leave of this thread. Here is something to chew on, until you can respect the non-voting perspective and are able to respond with something other than a slogan given to you by TPTB, your opinion is invalid and not really an opinion at all so much as it repetition of accepted propaganda. Talk to me like a person and not a machine and I'll consider you something more than a repetitious machine.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by wozza
If you did not vote, did not stand up and be counted (and you have that right) then fine, that is your choice and one I respect. However do not copmplain when things don't go as you would like as you did nothing whatsoever to try and influence the outcome of the election. It is a question of taking responsibilty for your inaction


If I still believed in even a 10%, heck even a 5% chance, that my vote could actually influence the outcome, I would vote. However, I believe that not only does the popular vote no longer actually determine the outcome of the election, I also believe that the entire voting process is meaningless because the new president will be nothing more than a figurehead, a puppet.

Pretend that you are a part of a co-op that owns a bus and are riding on the bus. The destination is not mentioned, but by carefully examining the fine print on your ticket you've discovered that the bus is going to Las Vegas and will arrive on 11/08/08, sometime in the afternoon. You and your fellow passengers are told that they can choose which driver they want. One driver is conservative, maintains strict order on the bus, and drives only on major highways. The other is a liberal, allows singing and a certain amount of goofing around, and takes the scenic route.

"But," you say, "I don't want to go to Las Vegas!"

"What? You're avoiding the issue. We need to choose a driver to control the bus."

"Control? What do you mean? Don't we get to decide where the bus is going?"

"Don't be silly. Of course the driver controls the bus. What are you complaining about? You get to choose your driver! Most people just have to accept whatever driver a company assigns. You are lucky to have this choice and it is your duty to help decide which driver is the best for your trip. Now VOTE!"

"But," you say, "I don't care who drives, I just don't want to go to Las Vegas!"

"Look mate, you're being a troublemaker. Vote for a driver, or if you don't vote don't complain about the bus ride because you didn't particpate in choosing the driver."

"What? I'm not complaining about the driver, I don't like the destination!"

"You aren't making sense. The driver controls where the bus goes, doesn't he? Steers the turns, applies the gas and brakes?"

"Yes, but ..."

"No buts. If you don't vote for a driver, you have no right to complain. Sit down and shut up."

Do you see my/our point yet? Voting for the bus driver is totally meaningless if the bus is going to the same place no matter who's driving.

Now you'll tell me I should get off the bus. Sure, I wish it were that easy. My job, family, home, and life are here. But I should leave because I don't like where the country is going, or I have no right to complain about where we're going because I didn't help choose the driver. Or you'll tell me that I'm crazy and delusional to say that it doesn't matter who's driving because everyone knows that the driver controls where a vehicle goes.

Whatever.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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I'm here in the political forums probably as much if not less than you are, Mr. Penny. You have helped reinforce why exactly I don't discuss politics very often.

Sorry if you couldn't hear me; it's tough trying to yell up to that pedestal you have placed yourself on...


Edit to Add: Excellent post, Heike! A perfect illustration of the status of our current political system. I don't want to go to Las Vegas!!

[edit on 6-11-2008 by MemoryShock]



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
Sorry if you couldn't hear me; it's tough trying to yell up to that pedestal you have placed yourself on...


That's O.K.....I understand how your perception of others as being on "pedestals", and your feelings of being unheard, can be a result of having your head jammed into the sand up to your shoulders....it does tend to skew one's world view.

I'll let someone else finish this out for me....


"So before you decide your vote doesn't matter in this election, I ask you consider this question: where else in your life are you "sitting this one out"? Where have you pulled back, gathered up your marbles and left the playing field because you didn't like or agree with the way the game was being played? What relationships have stopped working due, in part, to your decision not to fully participate?

You might be absolutely correct in your assumption that not voting is a way to register your destain for the corruption of the process or the candidates. I would not argue that the process is without serious problems. Nevertheless, by not participating the process, you give up your right to have a say in the matter. That, ultimately, is the premise upon which this country was founded." Dr. Judith Rich



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Liberty1
 


Before you start spouting off about having tons of proof for an NWO conspiracy, I bet you can't even provide evidence that the NWO exists.

I can't stand people who make things up out of thin air.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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Hey MemoryShock, what do you think of the idea of going to vote, but simply turning in a blank ballot? Yes, certainly that wouldn't 'affect the results' (as if), but it would be a gesture that shows a willingness to participate, and an indication that it's the system and choices that are flawed, not the concept of individual involvement.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Ian McLean
Hey MemoryShock, what do you think of the idea of going to vote, but simply turning in a blank ballot? Yes, certainly that wouldn't 'affect the results' (as if), but it would be a gesture that shows a willingness to participate, and an indication that it's the system and choices that are flawed, not the concept of individual involvement.


I am sure had that occurred to me, I would of done that...


What a decent idea. I may have even drew a caricature of Bush on the ballot...


Seriously, good idea and one I may use should I feel similarily 4 years from now...



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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I voted for the first time ever. I could have voted in the last 3 elections but didn't care. I believed as you do that the candidates were two sides of the same coin sitting in the hand of someone you never see. The shadowy military industrial complex.

This election is historic though. It reinforces key aspects of the American dream that anyone regardless of race can be president. The great melting pot of America has always had this problem of rich white men with a superiority complex, oppressing anyone with a different shade of skin. Now as everyone blends and becomes brown we finally accept each other more.

I would have voted for Ron Paul had he run independently. That dude has the right idea and like most people who have been right when everyone else was wrong, he is pretty much ignored by everyone. In the next election Ron Paul is gonna give Obama some competition. They have lots of time to plan and prepare now and lots of money to make it happen. Good luck R.P.!!!



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by rocksarerocks
 


I found this website by googling New World Order. If you take the time to read a site like this one and check the books they reference and check the references the writers of those books credited with their information then you have some proof. Sounds very scholarly. Do you want to take up the helm on that one? Nah see you just want to demand proof and ignore the information that available. You prejudge without investigation. You ignore what seems too unlikely to even consider from your point of view but you are simply ignorant of the reasons to believe.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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I am insulted that my own father would tell me my political opinions do not count
because I didn't vote for President.
I voted 100% locally, where it matters to me.
With all of the "alternative" information that was/is available on the Presidential candidates (including indp., green, etc parties) I feel my decision to not pick
any one of those guys was
the right one.
Sure, I could have written someone in,
but I wouldn't have been serious.
We all knew Obama was going to win anyway.
Everyone I know voted for him.
The emotion people feel for this guy seems sort of Cult-like to me
to be honest.
I feel better about not doing what everyone else thought I should do.
I like making my own choices
and if I don't want to play that game, I won't.



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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Here is a video from someone who is grateful for your non vote.

A heartfelt thanks for being a drooling sheep!





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