The Only Wrong Choice is not to Vote, page 6

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reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 09:49 PM by NettleTea

Originally posted by grover
Interesting but consider what would happen if everybody, and I mean everybody voted.

It would have the same result but a more positive source as it were. It would be an affirmation that the voter still counted as opposed to a denouncment that they didn't...

What do you propose we do if every candidate is not suitable for office? On every level of the political scale the candidates are either ignorant of their duties or maliciously motivated. A vote for "none of the above" should be placed on every ballot.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 05:45 AM by grover

Despite your nay saying change is coming... nay change is here the very fact that we have a black president elect for the first time is proof of that.

I grew up during the civil rights years and this is major and historic on so many levels.

You are the one who is wrong.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 06:09 AM by bubbabuddha

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I posted this elsewhere but maybe this thread should see it.

Tens of millions of Americans can vote but choose not to. They are castigated by their peers, but they have the right idea. We’re told that if you don’t vote you can’t complain, but voting, at least for the major parties, does not register much of a complaint at all. You might think you’re voting against the war or tax hikes, but it will instead be counted as just another voice of unity behind the dictatorial mandates of the chosen leader.

that was a selection from The Insanity of Mass Democracy

Is there a case to be made for voting? Indeed there is, if one believes that social order is a quality that can be instilled, by violence and other coercive means, by political authorities. I do not accept this proposition. To the contrary, I believe that social order is the product of unseen, spontaneous influences of which most of us are not consciously aware. The study of economics helped me to understand how we respond, marginally, to fluctuations that are continuously generated by one another’s self-seeking pursuits. I also came to understand that politics – like a rock thrown through a spider’s web – disrupts these informal processes as well as the existing patterns of interconnectedness upon which any social order depends.

from here
Why I Do Not Vote

This brings us to a word far too common, "taxation." In the current political climate, "taxation" means paying one's "fair share." It is unconscionable that Americans have arrived in a circumstance in which a man can be forced at gunpoint to surrender half of what is rightly his. The claim then, is this: that he was simply "discharging the debt he justly and honestly owed as his portion," or, in other words, "paying his fair share." Upon what justification does anyone owe this debt? The only foundation upon which this claim can be made is the underlying immoral selfishness of mankind.

lastly from this article Voting Is ImmoralVoting Is Immoral

The thing that mostly turned me off was the implication that I'm either a racist or a male chauvinist no matter whom I vote for, no thanks, the only winning move in that kind of Jerry Springer style election would be not to play. The whole thing appears so much more like a circus or an episode of Montel or the TV courtroom soap operas, which are now like romance soap operas that I just couldn't hold my nose and vote. I've voted in every election since I turned 18 in 1992, for democrats and republicans, now I've come torealize my worst fears and that will be the American denial of individuality in the form of a uncriticizable elected, the kind of president criminals would collude in order to have in power, so that all critics are in some way "racist" and "hateful" or "intolerant" of such inanity disguised as leadership. We have a McDonalds presidency for a fast food nation, it maybe wont be too long before we exclude those areas that didn't vote for the king from the union. Diversity can be beautiful but alas beauty maybe in the eye of the beholder, tolerance can quickly turn into tension and chaos. The last time we flirted with large government we went to war, so everything people complained about during Bush, might become multipled exponentially under Obama in order to contradict and screw over his followers as was done by the globalists and Bush with his cronies to his faithful.
I see another set of wishful thinkers getting what they tought would be something else and later regretting the choice, that seems to usually turn out to be the case. It will be interesting to see just what passes for acceptability in a world where mild disagreement brings about the most baseless trashy Jerry Springer style press behavior, since that seems to have gotten this group of political something for nothings elected.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 06:49 AM by Resinveins

reply to post by grover

Maybe it's the "only wrong choice" for you, but there are many people who believe that it makes no difference if they vote or not, or who they vote for if they do. What does it matter which flavor of corruption you get from Washington? You think Obama will be ought but a puppet and talking head for the powers in the democratic party that pull the strings? The very people who put him in a position of power? Without whom he'd never sniff the Whitehouse?

You hold on to the illusion that the man was elected last night if you wish, the sad truth is, he was selected by his party because he would be palatable to the people. Politics isn't about issues anymore. It's not about what kind of person you are, or what you believe. It's not about morals.. or honor... or anything of the sort. It's about whether they can get you elected and thereby further secure the party's power base. I'm sure Pelosi, Reid, Dean, etc. etc. etc. are enjoying their victory now... and just itching to get around to the business of pulling strings.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 07:08 AM by grover

Originally posted by Resinveins
reply to post by grover

You hold on to the illusion that the man was elected last night if you wish, the sad truth is, he was selected by his party because he would be palatable to the people. Politics isn't about issues anymore. It's not about what kind of person you are, or what you believe. It's not about morals.. or honor... or anything of the sort. It's about whether they can get you elected and thereby further secure the party's power base. I'm sure Pelosi, Reid, Dean, etc. etc. etc. are enjoying their victory now... and just itching to get around to the business of pulling strings.

Whether he is a puppet or not is moot... we have made a major step forward in this country with his election... after all he is the first African American to be either selected or elected and that is significant.

The people chose to go with him... with the whole race issue the way it is in this country I was not certain I would live to see this day.

This is historic no matter how you cut it and I have a feeling that this puppet will be skilled at pulling strings back.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 07:12 AM by semperfortis

reply to post by grover

Congratulations my Friend!!!!!!

While as you know, I did not support BO, yet I must say that as I stood in line to cast my vote, I watched people that were voting and wating to vote.

The excitement was there, the barely contained rush of being a part of something historic... For regardless of ones sentiments regarding BO, this election was historic and I was proud to be a part of it. I was truly proud to be there casting my vote.

Hope

Such a funny little word, and so very powerful. Perhaps we will see a little more of that word around us.

I hope so

Semper

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 07:17 AM by grover

reply to post by semperfortis

You are a gentleman Semper and I am proud to list you as a friend... that offer for a beer should you make it to Roanoke is still open.

What I am most pleased about you however is unlike some here despite the heat of this campaign you have the decency to offer congratulations... as opposed to piss and vinegar.

Mr. Obama may very well surprise the both of us.

I want to add that in my humble opinion... if McCain had conducted his campaign with the grace, dignity and honor that he did his concession I might be offering you congratulations instead... It was truly a class act last night.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by grover]

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 08:12 AM by John_Q_Llama

I have to disagree with the mentality that everyone should vote, especially for President of the United States of America, arguably the most powerful governmental position in the world. For me, because none of the candidates had the morals, principles, experience, history, and promise that I feel comfortable endorsing, I do not see the sense in voting for any of them.

Had Ron Paul been on the ballot I would have voted. Yes, I could have written his name in, but because he intentionally stopped running for the position, I did not feel it was appropriate. Therefore I chose not to vote. Not because of apathy (I gave more attention to this election than any other that has taken place during my lifetime), not because of laziness, and certainly not because I don't believe in the spirit and purpose of democracy. No, I opted for a vote of no confidence that came of the form of not voting. I refuse to fill in a ballot for the lesser of many "evils". If I did that I would be lowering my own standards, and during times like those were seeing today I think people need to stick to what they believe rather than conceding and settling on a cup half full.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I respect the opinion that everyone should vote, and I'll admit that I used to feel that way. But over the course of the last three elections I have not felt that any of the candidates were worth voting for. Maybe they need to add an additional option to the ballots for "Vote of no confidence". I bet that would be filled in quite a bit these days.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 08:22 AM by grover

I used to think that there was no difference between the parties... especially after a slew of insipid Democratic (and Republican) candidates but the past few years since newt the gingriches contract on America and the 8 of bush minor's presidency have convinced me that there are still significant differences between the parties... and oddly enough usually not the ones they cite against each other.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 12:08 PM by observer28

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by KOGDOG

putting the effort into writing in a cartoon sends a stronger message than not voting at all...

like I said, if you don't vote, ya can't complain...

you've secured your right to complain about the government for the next 4 years! grats!

Why, WHY do you people say stuff like this? Do you have ANY idea how close minded and retarded those "one line zingers" sound? Of course you don't because you like to feel better (pompous) than those that don't vote. Well let me tell you something buddy, I have never voted, did not this time and I CAN complain and there isn't a DAMN THING you can do about it! So get off your damn high horse and try to understand and appreciate WHY some people choose not to vote instead of responding with more "one line zingers" that do nothing but shut down intelligent discourse. I live here, the actions and decisions those politicians make effect MY LIFE and I have EVERY right to complain and defend my position. You wanna feel good about yourself by engaging in a completely corrupted "election" race so you have a "right" to complain, fine do it but don't tell me I have "no right to complain" and expect to get away with saying crap like that just because it is a common "One line zinger" response to positions contrary to your own. Have some damn common respect!