The Only Wrong Choice is not to Vote

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posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by kindred
Any true human being has only one goal in life and that is to be the best person they possibly can be, so please enlighten me as to why that person should vote for someone who is beneath them?


While I dislike politicians on principle who are you to say that they are not true human beings or beneath you?

That is the height of arrogance.




posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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Just got back from voting. In fact I was there 20 minutes early.

Besides the presidential election, there's elections for Governor, Lt. Governor, Secretary of State, State Treasurer, Attorney General, US Rep, State senator, etc.

Your vote has more of an impact on the other races. So don't give up because the nattering naybobs of negativism say it doesn't matter.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by grover

The Only Wrong Choice is not to Vote


www.votesmart.org

Senator John S. McCain, III (AZ)

Current Office: U.S. Senate
Seniority: Senior Seat
Office Seeking: President
First Elected: 11/04/1986
Last Elected: 11/02/2004
Next Election: 2010
Party: Republican

Background Information
Gender: Male
Family: Wife: Cindy Lou Hensley
7 Children: Doug, Sidney, Andy, Meghan, Jack, Jimmy, Bridget.
Birth Date: 08/29/1936
Birthplace: Panama Canal Zone, Panama
Home City: Phoenix, AZ
Religion: Episcopalian

Education:
National War College, 1973-1974
BS, United States Naval Academy, 1958.

Professional Experience:
Senate Navy Liaison, 1977-1981
Captain, United States Navy, Vietnam, 1958-1981
Beer Distributor.

Political Experience:
Senator, United States Senate, Arizona, 1987-present
Primary Candidate, United States President, 2000
National Security Adviser, Dole/Kemp Presidential Campaign, 1996
Representative, United States House of Representatives, 1982-1986.

*** *** ***

Senator Barack H. Obama, Jr. (IL)

Current Office: U.S. Senate
Seniority: Junior Seat
Office Seeking: President
First Elected: 11/02/2004
Last Elected: 11/02/2004
Next Election: 2010
Party: Democratic

Background Information
Gender: Male
Family: Wife: Michelle
2 Children: Malia, Sasha.
Birth Date: 08/04/1961
Birthplace: Honolulu, HI
Home City: Chicago, IL
Religion: United Church of Christ

Education:
JD, Harvard Law School, 1991
BA, Columbia University, 1983
Attended, Occidental College.

Professional Experience:
Community Organizer, Chicago, 1985
Attorney, Sidley & Austin
Author
Lecturer
Professor, Constitutional Law.

Political Experience:
Senator, United States Senate, 2005-present
Keynote Speaker, 2004 Democratic National Convention
Senator, Illinois State Senate, 1996-2004.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.johnmccain.com
www.barackobama.com
www.votenader.org
www.ronpaul.com


I assume that you’re talking about voting for a 'Party' and not the person, because you do know that its only a face for the policies? Yeah, ok so if you look at both those party's records in your country and I'd have thought that both have pretty much raped it of any value that it might have had in the distant past. So how could any thinking neigh, feeling sheeple not see that it will be more of the same from whomever put 'President' as their title?

So just like here in the UK were we have essentially two party's for the Sheeple to 'Vote' for and just like there in the US, NOTHING will change and the NWO will keep rolling along destroying all sheeple in its way.

Waken up you ignorant sheeple, the only vote is a 'None of the Above' and no, a spoiled vote is not the same thing!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:07 AM
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I voted at 7 AM this morning and there was a 20 minute wait. I didn't wait that long... as a so-called senior citizen (at almost 53 I dispute that designation but it comes in handy
) who needs a cane when I walk, I was bumped to the head of the line.

So it seems having a bum leg comes in good for some things.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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Sorry Grover it's not the height of arrogance. It's called intelligence and common sense. When Obama gave his speech about saving America and changing the world, they are the the words of a liar & someone who is seriously deluded. What the people of this world are crying out for is someone who is truthful and honest and Obama is not that person, but you obviously can't see that.


[edit on 4-11-2008 by kindred]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by kindred
 


Don't tell me what I obviously can or cannot see.

Its not the politicians... when will people see that? Its them dammit.

People don't want to know the truth... they want comforting lies... and while I too would love to see a politician tell us the truth they know good and well to do so would be political suicide.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by kindred
 


People don't want to know the truth... they want comforting lies... and while I too would love to see a politician tell us the truth they know good and well to do so would be political suicide.


Sad to see that politics have come to this point- Honest leadership doesn't count any more. Politics is one big mud slinging, brainwashing media circus anyway.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 09:32 AM
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Sorry grover, but the truth is exactly what people want and need, but if you continue to vote for Obama and Mcain, you're never going to get the truth.
If you honestly believe what you wrote, then you're as seriously deluded as the politicians you vote for.

Exactly how it is Mammoth.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

For once Grover and I are in complete agreement on a topic. It doesn't happen all that often... so I enjoy it when it does.

Affecting change in America requires involvement. Voting is an integral part of that, not the only part mind you, but an important one. No one is saying you must vote for such and such a person, I'm not any way...

President isn't the only thing on the ballot either, there's a multitude of issues to be decided. This is where change begins, involvement in the process. It's corrupt, you say? I agree, in many places it is corrupt, and terribly so, but to change requires people of good character to stand up and do something about it. Opting out of involvement is, IMHO, a bad choice. You certainly have the right to do so, I certainly not going to force someone to vote, or get involved...that's not the way it's supposed to work.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by kindred
 


Oh like refusing to pratisipate is going to get you anywhere near the truth or anything else.

And you call me deluded.

I have noticed that you objectors to voting are almost fanatical about it in that you insist that those who do not see it your way are deluded or blind or colaborators which is patently false. Why is it you assume that you and only you (and those who agree with you) have some sort of stranglehold on the truth?

Again I will call it as I see it... the height of arrogance.

I understand every point you guys have made... and I disagree with you... as is my right.

Why resort to calling us who vote deluded?

At least we care enough for our country to at least to attempt and try and make it better as opposed to sitting on the sidelines jeering us voters as fools and the like.

A cliche but a good one none the less says... that the only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.


[edit on 4-11-2008 by grover]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


I for one am not calling you deluded, crazy, wrong or anything. You do have every right to disagree with me on this issue. Also I am not saying I am right either, just that this is my solution to it all.

I love the quote you added to the end of your last post and it is so very true. However allow me to lay out a scenario for you and let's just imagine for a moment.....


A lot of us suspect that the voting system is corrupt. Many of us suspect that it is not who gets the votes but who counts the votes that really matters. So imagine if you will, if everyone just didn't go out and vote. What would the establishment do?

So now let's speculate. Would they cancel the elections? I doubt it. Would the Electoral Collage just appoint the next President? I suspect that this would be the case as we seen in 2004 when Kerry won the popular vote and the Electoral Collage reelected Bush. Now imagine the reaction...

Imagine the reaction you would get if this whole system was exposed top to bottom. Our votes don't count. The system is completely corrupt all around. What if we stopped voting for empty campaign promises and catchy slogans? Then what? We would force the hand of the establishment and they would expose themselves trying to maintain the lie.

If people stop playing the game, can the game continue? Let's think of our election process like a Baseball game. If the players refuse to play, but a score still gets reported, does that not expose that game to be a fraud?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


Interesting but consider what would happen if everybody, and I mean everybody voted.

It would have the same result but a more positive source as it were. It would be an affirmation that the voter still counted as opposed to a denouncment that they didn't...

.... and if they (whomever they are) tried to steal the election the reprocussions would be mammouth... especially if the voters aka the people refused to accept it.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by grover
 



sorry . count me out since watching the documentary 'Uncounted', 9/11, 2000 election, and even if all of that.. wasn't true....here's one that will REALLY cook your #)&*%$#(& noodle..

and this is why I don't vote

until it's fair.. it's all manipulation, smoke and mirrors! To me, how can I earnestly pick any candidate that won't stand up of another candidate that KNOWINGLY is NOT getting a fair air time as well.. ??

for me, it's like saying.. "Mobster #1 or mobster#2" .. it's all about greed.. but I can hear it now .. "what if no one votes.. you have to vote.. because .. otherwise.. America will .. will .. stop!! How can we operate without a president??? !!!" Is it not WE the people?? anyways I digress..

It's just a matter of time when the NWO will begin to REALLY emerge!!

oh btw.... the thread I linked.. got 1 flag!.. THAT SHOULD TELL ATS MEMBERS EVERYTHING!!!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by MrWendal
 


Interesting but consider what would happen if everybody, and I mean everybody voted.

It would have the same result but a more positive source as it were. It would be an affirmation that the voter still counted as opposed to a denouncment that they didn't...

.... and if they (whomever they are) tried to steal the election the reprocussions would be mammouth... especially if the voters aka the people refused to accept it.



I completely disagree. All we know is what is reported. If what really matters is who counts the votes, everyone could go out and vote and those numbers would be manipulated.

Now if you do not provide the numbers....there is nothing to manipulate. That's how you expose the lie.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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I really hate that saying " If you don't vote then don't complain "
People are out here working their butts off and making a difference other ways than voting. People are soldiers, business owners, working class, athletes etc... and some of them will not vote but they still have a right to complain about anything they want to. There are voters out there who have no right to complain when they live off the government, don't work or pay taxes, have no responsibility for their life but yet they vote. Not voting is not the wrong choice, not getting of your a@S and do something productive is the wrong choice!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by LetsPlayFeedTheGater
Why Vote?
Does the Average's persons vote even matter?

last presidential election,

Al gore WON the popular vote, but lost?

So No. Im not going to bother with going to the vote stands.


Exactly what I was going to say.

A waste of time.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Ferengi]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by Komodo
 


Good points. That thread you linked. Well it has 2 flags now


I personally don't agree with boycotting votes but I thought about it. The thing is there are massive vote boycotts in other countries but it doesn't matter, so why would it here? I will be voting independent even though my state TN has decided McCain as the winner. In TN you don't have to announce you're party, so I got to vote for Paul in primaries and I will be voting strait Independent the rest of the way now. I wish more would do the same, we REALLY need a 3rd party in this country more than ever.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Techsnow]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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I made the wrong choice, and you can't do anything about it.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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Sorry Grover I didn't mean to offend you and I don't think your a fool. I'm certainly not fanatical about not voting. I'm British and I've voted in the last three elections and will definitely vote in the next. I despise the Tories, but like I said, the only choice we have is to vote for the lesser of two evils, so I will probably end up voting for the Tories. Anything to prevent New Labour getting back into power. Unfortunately it's not going to make that much difference, as it will just be more of the same lies and false promises.

That's all I'm saying. I basically don't trust any of the main parties. I could vote for UKIP who seem to have the best interests of the British people at heart, but it will probably end up being a wasted vote, simply because they probably won't get that many votes. But at any cost I can not afford to allow New Labour to win, as that would be disastrous.

In the American election the only candidate I respect is Ron Paul, simply because he's sincere and honest. Obama on the other hand acts like he's the second coming of christ promising to save America and then the world. This is exactly how Blair behaved and we Brits know only too well how deluded he turned out to be. Happy Voting!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by Techsnow
 


thx Techsnow. I agree on the 3rd party wholehearted, however, with the media in power that are spewing propaganda for TPTB, it's never going to happen until someone in the media and the government begin to have integrity.........and follow it!





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