The Only Wrong Choice is not to Vote

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posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone

Sorry I thought Ron Paul was a third party ..I really didnt look into it since I am really not that interested in politics ...What was he ?


Republican.

But he is not inline with the today's Republican Party. Many people think or have thought he was third party because of that.

RP officially endorses the Constitution Party because *I believe* he wants to endorse loyalty to the Constitution itself. Baldwin is a bad candidate imho. A very bad one. You can still 'write in' RP probably.




posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


If only that were true and there was something I could do about it I surely would ....no one ever listens to me so I am sure they wouldnt either ..if you know what I mean ..
I wanted so bad to go and talk with Bush about all that he was doing and had done since I voted for him ...that I emailed him and told him how ashamed I was of what he was doing and condoning .. ...of course no way would anything I say even matter to him ..but I needed to get it off my chest ..and I am well aware that it never got read ...by anyone but some person like myself working the emails.....
And to make matters worse ..I was kicked off of at least THREE message boards that were Christian ....just because I told them how I felt too ...of course they didnt like that at all ...that hurt me even more than what Bush has done ..and made me realize that people are all so easily led into believing what every politician says that they would boot their own family out if they even so much as disagreed with what they do and are doing in the name of our COUNTRY and our LORD ...how could they stand behind someone who was not who he said he was ..and did so many things CONTRARY to what a Christian would do ...even to this day they do not see it .......



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by ashamedamerican
 


...and what praytell are you doing about it? You're willing to partake of the benefits of living here, but you aren't willing to help fix problems?

Foolishness writ in large quivering letters...you and others like you should be ashamed...


What I am doing about it, is trying to wake people up to the fact that it's a two party dictatorship, and that it's all corrupt and fraudulant.

No I'm not "willing to partake of the benefits of living here, but you aren't willing to help fix problems"
What I am willing to do is take flak from people who think that this is an honest system, and that their vote actually counts.

Research the electronic voting boxes and you will see why I call them "electronic fraud boxes" (no paper trail, backdoors, etc)

I could ask you the same question: (regaurding the problems with the fraud boxes)
"...and what praytell are you doing about it? You're willing to partake of the benefits of living here, but you aren't willing to help fix problems?"

I could also make the same insulting remark towards you and everyone else who believes that this is not a fraudulant corrupt system in which the average american truly has no voice.
(proven by the fact that Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost)

"Foolishness writ in large quivering letters...you and others like you should be ashamed..."

But I won't stoop to that level because I don't have a "moderator" tag by my name, so I'm not allowed to make such ignorant and insulting comments towards other members with impunity.

I AM ashamed... That my fellow americans are so complacent and blind...
"oooh dancing with the stars is on, got to go now, more important things to do" (sarcasm)

This post will be removed in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...



[edit on 3-11-2008 by ashamedamerican]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Explain what a write in vote does ? I was told it does NOTHING ....
What is wrong with Baldwin ? Is he the same one who writes for WND ?



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


Well I am not entirely sure if I fully understand the extent of your religious standings, but Baldwin basically wants zero separation from Church and State.

I am not sure if the write in for RP would be anything more then a political statement. I don't think that inherently makes it worthless.

There is the Libertarian Party as well. It is more classical republican. *Although I am not a Bob Barr fan myself*



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Maybe you, by yourself can't do as much as you would like, but you and many others? That's a horse of a different color entirely...

It'll take work, lots of it, but you won't know it won't work, if you and others don't try.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by ashamedamerican
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Where in my post did I imply or state that there are not problems with the system? Don't believe that I did...

What I have an issue with, is people believing that they have no power to oppose the coruption. So I reiterate, what praytell are you doing about it, or rather helping do about it. Other than calling me names, and thinking I'd delete your post because I'll disagree with you?

Don't vote, don't participate...that's fine, have at it. Also, don't complain when you don't like what's going on.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by ashamedamerican
 

So I reiterate, what praytell are you doing about it, or rather helping do about it.

I explained that. "What I am doing about it, is trying to wake people up to the fact that it's a two party dictatorship, and that it's all corrupt and fraudulant."

Originally posted by seagull
Other than calling me names, and thinking I'd delete your post because I'll disagree with you?

What names did I call you? If your referring to ...
"But I won't stoop to that level because I don't have a "moderator" tag by my name, so I'm not allowed to make such ignorant and insulting comments towards other members with impunity."
It was your statement that WAS ignorant and insulting, YOUR STATEMENT, not you... Don't take everything so personal.
If it's because I called you a moderator than sorry I didn't realize this was "name calling."

Originally posted by seagull
Don't vote, don't participate...that's fine, have at it. Also, don't complain when you don't like what's going on.

As I see it I have MORE of a right to complain than the people responsible for being "good little citizens" and participating in such a corrupt and fraudulant system.
It is the people who vote who have no right to complain.

By not showing others that this system is broken, by participating in it, and by not demanding that it be changed, you have given up your right to complain about it, not me.
When I heard fraud boxes were coming to my state, I actually wrote to some of my state legislators demanding that they refuse them, and explaining why.

Now if you will excuse me, dancing with the stars is on, I got to go... (I jk)

[edit on 3-11-2008 by ashamedamerican]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:21 PM
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To say that the system is broken (which it is) and its all rigged (which it is to a point) so there is no point in voting begs the question... if any of you feel this way... then what are you doing besides sitting on the sidelines to bring positive change to our nation?



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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Those who say, “people that don’t vote have no right to complain when things go bad”, have no sense about them. To be honest, I don’t see the logic in this viewpoint. I know that both top candidates will not work towards a more Constitutional government. Third party candidates will not win because the system is rigged against them. Who in this case do you expect me to vote for? I can work every day on efforts to shore up the government to a Constitutional size, but the instant I say, “I don’t vote”, I am immediately considered irresponsible. I consider people who don’t vote because they feel the system is rigged to be on the same level as people who vote for their partisan candidate. I praise them for staying home on Election Day instead of picking up their rifles and going out to face the truth.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


The person, who doesn’t vote because they feel that the system is rigged, does more to help the nation then a person who votes. The voter goes out and proactively works to add legitimacy to candidates that disrespect the Constitution. This act goes on to add legitimacy to the electoral system that is corrupted. Thus the voter acts to constantly keep the electoral system broken.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by NettleTea
 


Nonsense.

The fact is that things do change whether or not the powers that be want them to or not and a large part of the source of that change if not the greatest comes from the people... this is true of a democracy, and ultimately a dictatorship as well.

There is only one movement in any society if it is to survive at all and that is forward.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by grover
To say that the system is broken (which it is) and its all rigged (which it is to a point) so there is no point in voting begs the question... if any of you feel this way... then what are you doing besides sitting on the sidelines to bring positive change to our nation?


Well this is generally my position. Albeit not to the extent that voting absolutely has no impact. I do believe the Electorial College is a sham and Corporate America controls the MSM, which in affect controls the thoughts of the Public (speaking generally of course).

First and foremost I believe in education and truth. That's why I even participate in ATS. The more I know, the more I can share with others what I know. That is definitely fighting corruption in its own right.

I bring positive change by leading an example of being a nice moral person
Right now I am programing a social charity website, and I am hopeful it will make a positive impact for many lives. After that I will move on to something new



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


Well said Grover...

I would also like to add, (Knowing I'll get flamed for this) that all of you sitting around complaining about the system being broken, considering that your complaining is "doing something", is the very reason the system is broken.

Freedom isn't free.

I know that all of you have heard that quote before, but at times it bears repeating and calls for contemplation.

No one is asking that you lay your life down for that freedom; even though many of my friends have, many of my friends are currently doing that very thing; no one says that you have to.

No one says you have to serve in the all voluntary Military, although myself, Grover and many like us have considered that OUR DUTY. No one says you have to.

No one is saying that you can't complain to your hears content, in fact here we are on the Internet, a free enterprise for expression, exercising that freedom. Yet what is it you hope to achieve by only complaining? Alerting the rest of the population? Silly to the extreme.

What could you possibly alert the population to that they don't already know? Nothing. You are simply complaining to be complaining, presenting a problem without presenting a solution.

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"

Truer words were never spoken.

What does it take for one to be a part of the solution?

Vote

Simply take an hour or so out of your busy, busy day and go cast a vote.

If you think the two party system is broken, vote for a "Third Party" candidate. Do a write in. Campaign. Write letters; but most of all Vote.

Takes some action besides complaining.

Like it or not, agree with it or not, it is OUR DUTY to vote because we all enjoy the freedoms that come with living here.

Semper



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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All due respect given…


Originally posted by semperfortis
I would also like to add, (Knowing I'll get flamed for this) that all of you sitting around complaining about the system being broken, considering that your complaining is "doing something", is the very reason the system is broken.

The system is “broken” because men with ambition took actual steps to make it this way. The people did not vote tyranny in, yet here it resides.


Freedom isn't free.

Right, it takes true action to keep. Voting does not qualify as meaningful action. It is simply a method for people to feel like they have accomplished something.


If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem

I would consider those who collaborate with this government in the elections to be part of the problem. Instead of going to the bitter end in the fight against corruption, they would rather feel good about doing their duty to legitimize fiends.


If you think the two party system is broken, vote for a "Third Party" candidate. Do a write in. Campaign. Write letters; but most of all Vote.
Takes some action besides complaining.


Strictly speaking, voting is not action. Action would involve actively working towards a possible and honorable goal. Voting for anyone (be them the top two or third party) will not change the fundamental process of this Unconstitutional government. When tyranny has been masked and institutionalized to such a degree no voting process will do any good. Therefore any energy spent in voting is energy wasted.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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conscientious objectors unite!!

If being an American citiizen gives me the right to vote then I also have the right to choose not to vote, and no one can do a thing about it (aside from saying i don't have the right to bitch). However, free speech in this great nation says that I, in fact, DO have the right to bitch. I got in this argument with my American Govt. professor so many times.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
No!

6 Months ago I would have agreed with you 110%, but not now. Instead I have watched the joy of media brainwashing in action. I have seen intelligent people fall for the same old media tricks. For me the only vote wasted is a vote cast...

Obama: Will gives us more of the same. He will follow the agenda already laid out. However, for teh sake of argument, let's say he is the real deal. Let's say he really wants this "change" that he has been speaking of. If that is the case, he will not make it past year 2 with Biden (of the old gaurd) waiting in the wings.

McCain: Is the old guard. He stopped being "The Maverick" years ago. If he was still "The Maverick" he would not be one of your choices today. He is a complete warmonger and I could not see him surviving his first term as President. Of course you have Palin waiting in the wings and the thought of her as President should be enough to scare anyone.

Ron Paul: Now here is a wasted vote. So many people who want to "write in" his name. Guess what? If he is not on the ballot, you have truly wasted your vote. It will be cast aside and it will not count. To my knowledge Ron Paul is only on the ballot in one state.... Montana. So unless you live in Montana any vote for Ron Paul will be excluded.

Third Party Candidates: They are out there, yet no one knows who they are. I challenge anyone to walk down the street and ask anyone you see who is running for President and with a little luck 1% of the people you talk to might have a clue about all the third party candidates. Why so low? Cause they have been ignored. No one has seen them in the debates, you do not see any clips of them campaigning, the majority has no idea they are even out there.


I love those that say if you don't vote you can't complain... I say BS!!! The fact that I didnt vote gives me every right to complain. I didnt put one of these jack offs in office. You did! I didnt allow myself to be forced to pick the lesser of 2 evils... you did. I didnt fall for the empty promises and false hopes from our flip flopping, hand picked candidates. You did! If you vote in this election...you have no right to complain. You put them in office and your going to get what you deserve. More of teh same ol nonsense. After all.... you voted for them when you fell prey to the same old tricks.


Star for you friend. I am in 300% agreement with you here. I'm not voting because we haven't been given enough choices. Instead we get more of the same to choose from. I will not contribute to the pain that is coming our way at the hands of one of the two available tyrants.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:01 AM
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Non Sequitur said it best this morning...


The best domestic policy... no grousing without voting"


www.gocomics.com...



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:13 AM
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Any true human being has only one goal in life and that is to be the best person they possibly can be, so please enlighten me as to why that person should vote for someone who is beneath them?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:22 AM
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The President is nothing more than a spokesperson; It reminds me of the guy that does all those infomercials, the Kaboom guy... LMAO!!! Whats his name??? He is who I think of when I hear the term "President".


He'd make a great president, I bet he'd get us to "buy" anything. HA!

[edit on 4-11-2008 by milkinmoo]





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