Obama wants 'price signals', page 6

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reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 03:38 AM by Cyberbian

America is dead. The Republican party killed it.

Either we get really lucky and Obama does CPR or it's all over anyway.

The fact is that a technological society of global scale and incomprehensibly complex capability cannot survive without trust, and the good old greed motivation is going to kill us all if it does not become an historical footnote really soon.

I am doing pretty well, or I was until the rich guys stole my retirement from me. Nobody called it "Redistribution of Wealth" when they cleaned out my account, and devaluated my home. Funny how that works!

They did not call it "Redistribution of Wealth" when the indentured my children to bail out the banks with a bogus recovery plan.
But I am not worried about someone redistributing my wealth.

My worries are centered around people stealing my health and my family's health, stealing my abilty to work and feed my family. I worry about them stealing my job and handing it to someone in India. I worry about a few very rich guys stealing the abilility of everyone around me to survive, so they can accumulate more wealth and power. So they can drink champagne and let the wealth tinkle down on the rest of us peons as the theory goes.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Cyberbian]

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 04:18 AM by Anonymous ATS

History gentlemen. History.
Look into the last century.
The ones who "know what's best for us" will destroy what they cannot control. Read Anne Applebaums 'Gulag' or any real history on Mao. Socialism always starts with an idealistic viewpoint and descends into something dark and brutal. Those that give up their freedom in the name of fairness lose it. Those that do not give up their freedom become statistics. It has happened again and again while the victims argued over who was going to be in charge of the slaughter. If we don't stand together and see the big picture we will all be another sad footnote in history.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 04:39 AM by detachedindividual

reply to post by Cyberbian

I agree with everything you have said, very well put.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 04:48 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Cyberbian
The "Whatever he wants" part of your rant is deluded. .... Obama will hopefully undo the damage and restore democracy from what has nearly become a dictatorship.

Actually it looks like YOU are the one deluded since you hope Obama will 'restore democracy and bring us back from a near dictatorship'. The whole premise of this 'price signals' is that Obama want's to do just the opposite. He is going to regulate your behavior and change it to fit his version of morals. That's not democracy. And that's closer to dictatorship then anything Bush43 has pulled.

Originally posted by Majorion
Would you guys give the Obama rumors a break!...

Read the damn thread. It's not a rumor. It's a tape IN HIS OWN WORDS.
How about you stop giving Obama a free pass for a change.

I mean his grandmother just died for God's sake.

So what?

Originally posted by Mdv2
So you are basically saying that Americans have no moral commitment to change their lifestyle in order to keep our globe habitable for the generations to follow? Don't tell me you are so selfish.

READ THE THREAD

1 - Here is a prime example of the 'tolerant' left ideology - only tolerating THEIR version of morals. So Mdv2 - do you get upset when the right pushes THEIR version of morals in politics? Bet you do. That is exactly what 'price signals' are.

2 - AS WAS SAID IN THE THREAD - if you think this will only be for carbon footprinting - you are sadly mistaken. These are politicians. This is a power crazy POTUS position. Obama has already said he'll use it to shape the behaviors of Americans to fit what he thinks they should be behaving like.

3 - I'm not selfish. Get a grip and read the thread.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 04:52 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Mdv2
[then you could choose public transport instead.

You seriously don't understand America if you think this is one big city with public transportation on every street corner.

Originally posted by Cyberbian
They did not call it "Redistribution of Wealth" when the indentured my children to bail out the banks with a bogus recovery plan.

That's exactly what it was. And it came to you via many avenues but largely because of Barney Frank. His incompetence and his refusal to see reality are a big part of why this built up over the years and why this happened.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 06:16 AM by undo

reply to post by Mdv2

i have an used mini van, purchased for my family by a brother in law who couldn't stand our beat up mini van. we actually needed mini vans because we had a family of 6, trying to squeeze into a honda civic. was great on gasoline but left clouds of black smoke everywhere it went due to the fact it had alot of mechanical problems we couldnt' afford to fix.

anyway, my mom had advanced alzheimers and we took care of her in our home for nearly 10 years. on a bus with other people, she would've been really hard to control. we've had alot of disease and sickness in the house, and having to wait at the bus stop would've been totally abusive to us and other people as well.

i don't think public transportation is safe. i think it's the elitist solution to problems they won't ever have to deal with themselves and it's too easy to just toss someone over the side of the boat, if they can't afford a vehicle that meets the standards.

i remember living by a lady who was so poor, her car was practically falling apart as it went down the road. the police would pull her over all the time to see what was up with her. they profiled her based on the appearnace of her vehicle. she was just very poor. that car, it would never pass obama's concept and she would end up having to walk everywhere, at 50 some years of age. which might be okay in more temperate climates (and if you're healthy enough to do it) but the area she lived in was nearly 5000ft above sea level and frigidly cold several months out of the year.

you gotta think carefully about these types of ideas because nothing is ever cut and dry.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by undo]

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 06:54 AM by Mdv2

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Mdv2
So you are basically saying that Americans have no moral commitment to change their lifestyle in order to keep our globe habitable for the generations to follow? Don't tell me you are so selfish.

1 - Here is a prime example of the 'tolerant' left ideology - only tolerating THEIR version of morals. So Mdv2 - do you get upset when the right pushes THEIR version of morals in politics? Bet you do. That is exactly what 'price signals' are.

I am fine, but thanks for your concern. Now, I would like you to answer my question directly. Since when is moral commitment on sustainability related to being left or right? Moral commitment in relation to sustainability is not related to political sides.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
2 - AS WAS SAID IN THE THREAD - if you think this will only be for carbon footprinting - you are sadly mistaken. These are politicians. This is a power crazy POTUS position. Obama has already said he'll use it to shape the behaviors of Americans to fit what he thinks they should be behaving like.

You should be grateful! The behaviour must change to secure sustainability. If you don't agree, then you are basically saying that it is okay to pollute the world more than necessary.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You seriously don't understand America if you think this is one big city with public transportation on every street corner.

There is public transport, if you can use it, use it instead of complaining about high oil prices and not being able to afford fuel efficient cars, and I am definitely aware not every person has the possibility.

Originally posted by undo
...

Thanks for the insight.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 07:15 AM by undo

reply to post by Mdv2

no easy solution, is there. obama's ideas may sound good on paper but in application, they would leave alot to be desired. he knows, as does pretty much everyone here, that alternative energy is the answer, but we aren't getting it. instead it's shift the blame to the consumer. make them feel guilty for trying to support their family. make laws that require their families have a certain quality of life, and then make sure they can't afford to give them that quality, so at any time they can be stripped of what little they do have (if expedient, of course).

i dunno, but from the looks of things, this is gonna be worse than a rough ride. it's gonna be a death sentence for alot of poor people

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 11:26 AM by ForPeaceUSA

Your freedom is going to be taken, anyway. Government has always taken your money and "spread the wealth". People are outraged as if this "spreading the wealth" is a new idea? If spreading the wealth is socialism, then guess what. We've been socialist for quite some time.

I'm just asking for some sign of intelligent reflection. It seems the the "Country First" party is all about putting themselves first.

I tend to try and see things from all points. Unfortunately, I often feel like I'm surrounding by mediocre people who are incapable of reflection.

I'm not saying that's what you are but it's more often true, than not true. It's like people are educated by CNN and their party talking points and that shows, and it's sad. It's been often said that America will be destroyed from the inside. From all of of brilliance I see in these discussions, it really makes sense that this will happen.

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 04:50 PM by truthquest

Originally posted by Stuship

Actually all family income below $42,000 a year does not pay income taxes once they've received their tax refund at the end of the year. Those families could change how much they pay per check to 0, but then they would not have as large of a tax refund check.

Every person pays payroll taxes, payroll taxes are for social security.

www.moneychimp.com...

Interestingly enough Obama wants to raise the Capitcal Gains taxes on realized income. This will hurt many retired individuals, but will not hurt the million/billionaires. Most million/billionaires like Warren Buffet have unrealized capital gains, so they literally pay 0% taxes on the millions of dollars they earn per year.

Obama wants to tax what I call the working rich, and not the old money rich. I personally think we should go to a fair tax, or a flat tax, so this is not a political issue anymore. Seems to me we could save more money by having businesses collect the taxes, instead of the government. Plus, we would reduce government power, and corruption at the same time.

You are wrong on two grounds. Firstly you seem to have forgotten about the existence of state income tax. Secondly, you are wrong in the first place as I would know myself from last year's tax return. I would send you a copy if it did not have my personal information on it. The only thing that caused me to pay a low tax was the $600 rebate! If you have not noticed there is no such rebate planned for next year. Maybe I have to start asking for this "family income" from my employer so I can pay a lower rate. Please tell me how to switch over from "normal" income, to "family income".

reply posted on 4-11-2008 @ 09:31 PM by Question Fate

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

If people want to drive their Hummers and waste our resources, then they should be allowed to. But they should pay more.

I'll tell ya what, let's try this one on for size as it's a perfectly legitimate comparison. People with the most health problems should pay more everytime they see a doctor since they monopolize more time & more health insurance/medicaid/medicare. They are using more than their fair share and should have to pay more until they can learn how to better manage that resource.

Obviously a ridiculous statement... but nomoreso ridiculous than suggesting those who use more gas or electricity should be forced to pay a higher rate. What socialistic nonsense!

Yes its ludicrous, because it makes no sense. People that drive Hummers don't NEED to drive one. Obviously they choose to drive an expensive gas guzzler. People who see a doctor alot NEED to see said doctor for health reasons. If you want to argue that they could just sit home and stay sick that's fine. But that would be another silly argument.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 08:41 AM by Lukewiththecomputer

those edited videos are pointless, its opinionated tripe.

Obama Could very well be pure evil, But IMHO those videos are a pointless waste of time, You don't even know what the people hosting the show asked him.

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 09:01 AM by Anonymous ATS

please, PLEASE people don't buy into this crap, it is all FALSE! whenever you see a video of --> President. Obama (gotta admit this one feels pretty niice!

contradicting his previous statements, well let's just say that video editing is pretty easy in 2008... and they ain't using it only for movies and video games.
Keep in mind that they will do ANYTHING possible to them to take this guy out of the white house! i don't know about you, but im getting ready for gas price drops up here in Canada;

since 2001 = 1.49$/litre

this morning after yesterday WONDERFUL election
gas= 0.93$/litre !!!! this is a +- 33% price drop!!!

FEELS LIKE 1998 aLL over again!

ps: Next on the list the Federal Reserve; and until we close that crappy money cartel down; WE WILL NEVER BE FREE!

reply posted on 5-11-2008 @ 10:48 AM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by detachedindividual

I agree, and well said! We need reform and when we really look at how much energy we waste it is sickening. For example, look at the price of gas and how it effected how much people drive and our buying of SUVs. Do we really need that much room when we drive? People really didn't question this until gas prices shot up. And also, I know from experience, you can really put into perspective how much driving is really necessary when gas is expensive. I wish he would just give tax cuts to businesses who promoted tele-working. I love the phrase "caged animals" because it is true! There really is a lot of misinformation that gets spread through incredibly opinionated videos such as the one above.

reply posted on 1-6-2009 @ 09:04 AM by FlyersFan

Tax it all! The VAT

I think these two subjects kinda go together ... VAT and Price Signals.
So I'm providing a link