Obama wants 'price signals'

Regarding Marxism...

Has anyone posted a thread here at ATS regarding the fact that we may have a Democrat for a president AND a Congress with a majority of Democrats AND a Senate with a majority of Democrats??? Hmmm...isn't that a veto/filibuster proof government? Oh wait, the judicial branch has fewer Democrats...

I heard somewhere that power corrupts, but "absolute" power corrupts absolutely...

Pelosi is already licking her chops (her "pork" chops, that is... ...

Okay...I'm burnt out with this election and do not intend to post anymore about the election...But, like all politicians, I'm "appearing" to promise something, but not intending too keep my promise...

[edit on 11/3/2008 by swdecord]

Would you guys give the Obama rumors a break!... I mean his grandmother just died for God's sake.

Give it a rest

No Star, no Flag..

Peace all,

[edit on 3/11/08 by Majorion]

why are republicans so scared this year..

its too late for all the fear mongering..

im a registered republican, i am worried about the increases in taxes etc.

that said, all this demonizing of Obama does nothing to help the republican cause..

the negative tone has hurt the McCain campaign...

it reeks of fear and desperation..

I have a feeling the voting tomorrow will bear this out, for good or for bad

Ret

reply to post by NGC2736


and the guy with the 1200 sq. ft home and 5 year old car, probably smokes, too, and is already paying out the nose for it. but before he quits smoking, he'll give up his 1200 sq ft home and live in a 700 sq ft trailer. you can't legislate addiction. the war on drugs doesn't work and never has.

we had a hot water pipe bust in the foundation of our home and we didn't know anything about it till the bill came in. it was 500 dollars for a gas bill alone! because the hot water line was leaking. hubby had no job at the time, and we couldn't pay the bill so the gas company came out and turned off our gas. obama's idea would also include additional penalty on top of the penalty we already had. alot of the time people who appear to be wasting energy are poor folks who can't afford new energy efficient appliances, or repair for broken water pipes. once we knew what the problem was, we turned the hot water off at the water heater, problem solved but the bill ...we had to borrow from relatives to pay it and the pipe, it's still broken. we would have to have the floor and cement foundation of our house torn up to fix it and that would cost 1000s of dollars.


America can't afford Obama.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by undo]

reply to post by undo


America cannot afford any President that is going to keep the same level of expenses in the US Military

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


well if they cut military spending, it'll just come out of the pockets of the poorest members. they won't short sell their officers or their defense/offense. just for the record, if you are interested in the welfare of poor people, think twice before calling for military cuts ... cause they won't stop building the war machine. period.

Originally posted by Stuship
reply to post by Cyberbian

 

Wow, could you drink some more Kool-aid? Saying something like that is similar to calling Obama a Marxist, oh wait he is a marxist.

Let me get my glass of Kool-aid as well.

Who's Kool Aid? I have hopes that Obama is honest. I believe he is, but I have reservations about anyone who gets sanctioned by a political party.

If he is real, his stated principals will guide him toward an America for the Americans, not corporations and executives. I disagree with a good number of his policies. I much prefer the ideals of Ron Paul. But Ron Paul just ain't on the menu.

I don't understand your comment, and I am not a drone for anyone.

So what makes you assume that my soul is sold and I worship the ground anyone walks on?

I think you, sir are presumptuous! Unless of course you mean that i have "Blashemed Obama" in which case I plead guilty, and will join you in a Kool Aid Toast! Proust Sir!

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Cyberbian]

reply to post by Cyberbian



I mean the guy just talked about price signals. Do you have any idea what that is going to do to the middle class? It is going to harm them immensely.

You have hopes that Obama is honest???

He's a politician, all politicians lie. Not only that just take a look at his tax plan and what happened to that.


Vote for who want too, but just be aware that Obama is a polar opposite of Ron Paul.

Originally posted by Resinveins
One of the reasons this guy scares the bejesus out of me. The idea that we should conserve energy (i.e. turn off our lights, more efficient vehicles, etc.) is great, and laudable. It's the way he wants to do it that's scary. Forcing us into it through government control of prices? If this is his preferred methodology for achieving his goals, then I shudder to think of what may be next.

The fact that he can say things such as this and still be popular says two things to me. It illustrates how poorly the American people are educated on this guys ideas. And also how the populace here is so disgusted with the current administration that any alternative is acceptable, no matter how questionable.

**Off topic** What the hell's with the Flyers this year

Peace

There is a global oil price war and people should realize this.
Russia, Iran, Venezuela and some other countries are now global oil players.
Lowering the prices hurts their economy.
Lowering oil prices for the western economy might not hurt USA for example but the oil cartels will not be happy since their precious reserves will sell for ridiculously (according to their views) lower prices.
In order to prevent an upset of balance on their sales versus Russian Iranian and Venezuelan oil, and see demand slowing down as many clients and people will have to turn to Russian, Iranian, Venezuelan oil for cheaper and better prices, why not start a "green" trend across the west?
They get to save their precious little reserves AND live to see another day with better prices for THEM.

I wonder to whom all those candidates are paying lip service.
I wonder if after the looming crisis for western oil passes, if it passes, if everything will be ok and the now prevalent green opinion gets once more thrown out of the window. Big cars will again hit the streets and the gasoline pumps and everyone will be "happy" again. Everyone in the oil conglomerates that is.

Don't believe a word anyone says, IMO they are taking all of us for a ride ONCE MORE!

I do not believe they all started caring for the environment all of a sudden, they are just worried because now there is big competition and

1) They can do nothing about it.
2) Are desperate because their oil sells for much less than what they wished for.
3) They have to turn to the people and convince them to lower consumption, recruit the average consumer to fight for their war.
4) When time is right and competition gets eliminated or pushed aside prices will hit the ceiling again and being GREEN will be once more out of fashion IMO.

Mark my words.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by populardisbelief]

Originally posted by undo
if you are interested in the welfare of poor people, think twice before calling for military cuts

The welfare of the poor matters to me greatly. I base my political ideology largely on the very fact that there is a poor class to begin with.

Can you elaborate on how spending less on the Military translates to hurting the welfare of the poor?

Much of the video is out of context offering the editors point of view rather then letting Obama explain himself.

Obama is very methodical in his thought process and the topics discussed are not easily explained or remedied.

We as Americans are going to have to look in the mirror after electing GW Bush two terms in a row. We have allowed a rudderless commander and chief to remain at the helm while the nation has slipped into perils that come from neither a terrorist or foreign nation.

The enemy within, is ourselves. In our selfishness, and our way. Our greed and methods we use to obtain a bottom line we call growth and profit.

Is that the American way? What I see is a spend today, someone else pay tomorrow type of economy and now we are paying.

Dont shoot the messenger when the message isnt to your liking. Buckling down in America if not done correctly will hurt the poor, middle class and the lesser advantaged much more then it will hurt 100k or 250K a year joe the plumber.

United we Stand, Divided we fall. When the haves only take care of themselves, and the number of have nots increase in size, eventually their voice in a democracy becomes the change that was not happening in the past.

Peace



[edit on 3-11-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by Majorion
Would you guys give the Obama rumors a break!... I mean his grandmother just died for God's sake.

Give it a rest

No Star, no Flag..

Peace all,

[edit on 3/11/08 by Majorion]

I really don't understand posts like this. I may not agree that price signals are all bad and they can't be used for good purposes but they are definitely an extremely legitimate concern for people. You can state, "no star and no flag" all you want but it has been starred and flagged quite considerably since it is appearing on the front page.

How about instead of stating only, "no star and no flag" you actually rebuttal the points made in the video and tell us why we should not be concerned with pushing moral principles through manipulation of the price of goods?

JP6 and small business could be hurt quite considerably by a price signal based agenda. It was pointed out earlier by quite a few people that it could hurt farmers, construction companies, and numerous other people in numerous other ways because they, as a part of their occupation, automatically use more fuel than other people. This, IMO is why more government control ends up costing more and hurting more people than intended. You get into this cycle of unforeseen consequences and bureaucracy that bog down the system and end up costing taxpayers.

If we would simply allow capitalism and the free market to do its thing and work out its own prices and so forth without so much regulation within we would probably cut down on lots of government spending and save people money. It's a regulation based economy that was the downfall of the USSR and we are beginning to see the failure of the economy in the USA now as a result of no longer having a true free market.

I agree with many of the more simple ways of freeing up money in the lower and middle classes such as higher taxes for the rich and focusing on education for the poor. However, this idea of price signals takes it a bit too far in my opinion.

edit: Starred and flagged!

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Bugman82]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


the lowest paid members of the military represent the largest population of the military. they are, by and large, at or below the poverty line. therefore, when spending cuts are proposed, they go to the reliable largest population, the guys at the bottom, who have no clout, who no one will listen to or care about until there's hundreds of thousands of them complaining. this always happens when democrats have the com because it's been their platform since the 60's. make people think that the military is over there with the rich white guys and the big corps. that's a crock. the biggest percentage of the military qualify for food stamps and the wik program!

there's people of every racial background in every branch and every rank. the dems don't care if military guys don't vote for them after they've been nearly starved to death while still working a job at least as dangerous as a police officer or fireman, because they can convince other poor people to vote for them instead and use the military poor as someone to point at and say .. look at all the violent white boys. it's just BS, piles and piles of political BS.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by undo]

I was reading through this thread and someone used "Democrat" and "learning from our past" in the same sentence!

The polls open in just a few hours, and this last ditch effort on ATS to open up voters' eyes to this Pseudo-Democrat seems fruitless. Most of his supporters are blinded by Obama-mania and don't care to hear anything negative about Barack the Messiah.

Instead, they'll get up in the morning, watch Ellen, then maybe Jerry Springer, and lounge about the rest of the day watching election results. They won't head to the polls. They are too lazy to do that so they've already had their absentee ballot mailed to them and sent back. Tomorrow, I will head to the polls before work and put in 9-10 hours, so, I can enjoy my ONE day off work this week on Wednesday. I will NOT be putting a check mark by Obama's name!

Oh, back on topic! Obama wants price signals. No, those are bad. Just more legislation of morality and more of the government telling me how I need to be living. To hell with that. We elected a Democrat Governor in Iowa 2 years ago and I can't smoke in bars anymore because Chet Culver says so (Not the bar owners). Every damn time a Democrat gets elected, I lose something. Am I rich? Nope! I'm a Teamster. I'm not "Joe the Plumber", but I AM a Plant Worker. My Union wants me to vote for Obama. Out of my Union brothers at this plant, I can only think of 2 (out of about 40) that are voting for Obama. Of course, when you got a family, children, and a job, you have more to think about than just yourself. Oh, a side note. We are all charitable. But, Obama gets elected, I doubt I'll donate to United Way or the AICF next year. I won't be able to afford his "Spread the Wealth" taxes!

Originally posted by CreeWolf
Every damn time a Democrat gets elected, I lose something.

Funny thing is, the Public has been saying the same thing throughout the past 8 years! Which was Republican for all 8 if my records are correct.



Remember to think of the past 8 years when you vote every one

I have to work the Election Booths all day tomorrow so I am off to bed.

Peace out.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


So. What did you lose?

Don't you be starting no trash can fires with those McCain ballots now!

Goodnight!

[edit on 4-11-2008 by CreeWolf]

Obama was meant to win. I say he will win and impose all those "green" rules. He and the financial crisis are both part of the plan to make the world consume less oil, because peak oil is here. There will be new rules "to save the earth from global warming", in fact the rules are here because of peak oil.
Same thing can be said about the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Secure the supply of oil.
www.bloomberg.com...

Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Global crude-oil output is falling faster than expected, leaving producers struggling to meet demand without extra investment, the Financial Times said, citing a draft of an International Energy Agency report.

Annual production is set to drop by 9.1 percent in the absence of additional investment, according to the draft of the agency's World Energy Outlook obtained by the newspaper, the FT reported. Even with investment, output will slide by 6.4 percent a year, it said.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by pai mei]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Price signals = punitive taxes and fees on goods and services.

He's going to raise the prices, taxes, and fees on anything he wants in order to change the behavior of Americans to fit what he thinks is right.

This is on EVERYONE - except the poor, he claims.

So you are basically saying that Americans have no moral commitment to change their lifestyle in order to keep our globe habitable for the generations to follow? Don't tell me you are so selfish.

Although the Fed seems to have no problems creating money out of thin air, someone has to pay the burden for the costs that come along with sustainability. That is and never will be a well-perceived idea, but it is realistic. Something has to change; people supporting no change to keep costs down are both short-sighted and selfish.

You see how well it works with oil. Until recently Americans refused to drive smaller cars, now the prices have gone up the market share of small cars greatly increased as well as the willingness of car manufacturers to come up with innovative solutions.

reply to post by Mdv2


POOR PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY NEW COST EFFICIENT, PROPERLY FUNCTIONING CARS TO SAVE MONEY ON GAS. good grief. if obama implements his plan, he will starve his own people to death, make those who were borderline impoverished, full out paupers, and generally cause more misery than he can correct. he said the people would not like his decisions...well then who in the hell wants to vote in a person who wants to make decisions none of us will like, and why would anyone want to vote for someone who is warning you in advance, that you ain't gonna like him as president?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Mdv2

 

POOR PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY NEW COST EFFICIENT, PROPERLY FUNCTIONING CARS TO SAVE MONEY ON GAS. good grief.

To quote Flyersfan:
This is on EVERYONE - except the poor, he claims. However, she's not talking about cars.

And if you cannot afford a fuel efficient cars (a Ford Focus 2002 model is already available at 3000/4000 USD), then you could choose public transport instead.