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Obama wants 'price signals'

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posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 03:47 PM
Originally posted by ThichHeaded

This is on EVERYONE - except the poor, he claims.

Interesting thing is..

Most of the things that are bad for people poor people do/use.

EXP: cigarettes, beer, and clunkers.

Tax the crap out of those and who are you really taxing?

Thanks for pointing that out, because its really important. I tried pointed that out on the socialism thread and nobody seemed to notice. In fact I listed five taxes on the poor and not a response. It is sad and pathetic in my opinion.

1. Social Security. A SIXTEEN percent tax. SIXTEEN!!!! Obama will do nothing about it.

2. Corporate Taxes, since all corporate revenues come from consumers in the end, and luxury goods corporations are taxed at the same rate as basic needs corporations. (not that there is an official definition) Obama will do nothing about it.

3. Sales taxes, as you point out. Food, shelter, and clothing are all taxed! Obama will do nothing about it.

4. Income tax, as even those who earn a very low sum still have to pay it. A $20,000 salary does very little for you in the US yet that is taxed a large amount! Obama just may do something tiny about it, if we are lucky.

5. Inflation. Since the poor have what little wealth they have in cash form instead of real-estate/stock market/etc they have no protection from inflation, unlike the rich. Furthermore, the rich are the ones who get the freshly printed money while the poor are left with the inflated money. Obama will make it worse, just like any filthy crook of a politician.

6. Extra fines and fees from banks and creditors. If you are poor you have to pay extra fines and fees for not having enough money to pay the bills you have. Obama will do nothing about it.

7. Government fines, tolls, and fees. There is no break for the poor at all. Does that $300 ticket you have represent an hour of work for you or a week of work? Does not matter. If you are poor then you are simply screwed by government fines and fees. Clearly fines/fees should be easily replaced by jail-time or community service upon request. Or the fine/fee could be wage-based. Obama will do nothing about it.

8. Interest rates. You don't have much money, so you have to pay even more money in interest rates. Though in all honesty a lot of this is simply how good you are at managing finances, poor people are dumber. They don't manage their finances as well. And the end result is that the poor pay higher interest rates regardless of who is to blame. Obama will do nothing about it.

9. Health care. The rich can afford insurance agencies who typically manage to get really good rates. The poor who have no insurance agency are stuck paying whatever the health care center sticks to them. Obama will do nothing about it.

Obama's "price signals" a filthy socialist term for HIDDEN TAXES, is a filthy tax on the poor. As always, Obama wants a million words of code and 5,000 more employees for another failure of a federal program. Obama, just like McCain, is a complete mental defect. Obama does nothing for the poor, just as every other of the 530 or so criminals in congress. And he'll do even less for the poor as president because he'll be busy looking at himself in the mirror and staging photo-ops and campaigning for his banker buddies. I imagine that is a politicians favorite hobby when they aren't particularly wrinkled.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by truthquest]

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Resinveins
The fact that he can say things such as this and still be popular says two things to me. [...] And also how the populace here is so disgusted with the current administration that any alternative is acceptable, no matter how questionable.

Well, since this is ATS, I am going to throw a little conspiracy in here. Now, how would you convert a freedom loving, people's rights centered, capitalistic country into one which may be led by a central dictator-like power?

Remember, change does not happen overnight without public revolt. If you tip-toe on the fine line of revolution, you can get just want you want while making the people think they are still in control!

Step 1: Use radical ideologies that directly affect few (abortion, gay marriage, 2nd amendment) to divide society as a whole.
Step 2: Use fear to capture/consolidate resources.
Step 3: Cycle between the two extremes causing each 'side' of the divided public to think they are in charge while...
Step 4: Wait for the mechanism to push one of the two extremes into a dictatorship!

Seriously people, leftism to the extreme is conventional socialism. Rightism to the extreme is fascism. Either way, the people lose the power. The more and more We The People divide from eachother, the more We The People stand to lose.

We are right between steps 3 and 4 right now. And the 'power' pulling the strings is neither republican nor democrat. I think that a win for Obama plays right into their hands however the illogical selection of Palin is a clear 'insurance policy' should McCain pull the upset. (McCain would die before late 2010). Whichever way you put it, we ALL lose when we view OUR country as being "us" versus "them".

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:01 PM
LOL, you're going to end up like us in the UK, you'll go to work, work as hard as you can then the tax man will steal all your money and give it to the "poor" don't worry you'll see them on the way home they're the ones outside the pub with 50 kids or in their government paid for homes with the flat screen TVs. Sorry guys looks like you're heading our way, maybe you'll understand our plight that little bit better soon.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:12 PM
reply to post by ForPeaceUSA

So I guess this justifies moving the political structure of the country to socialism? We made it through the depression. We just need to suck it up and get through these times. We shouldnt have to give up our freedom. For me, its not about the money. Its about my freedom to choose what I want to do without the government deciding what and how I live.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:15 PM

Originally posted by spitefulgod
LOL, you're going to end up like us in the UK, you'll go to work, work as hard as you can then the tax man will steal all your money and give it to the "poor" don't worry you'll see them on the way home they're the ones outside the pub with 50 kids or in their government paid for homes with the flat screen TVs. Sorry guys looks like you're heading our way, maybe you'll understand our plight that little bit better soon.

Hey, I have a couple honest questions that you may be able to help me with!
1. What percentage is taken out of your paycheck including retirement and medical?
2. How much is tuition to university for a 4-year degree?
3. How much out-of-pocket do you pay for medical expenses (office visit co-pay, prescriptions etc)?
4. What is the default amount of vacation a full-time employee gets. No seniority or anything like that, just the basement-default.

I get so much bad info over here that I cannot discern exactly how bad things are over there. Sometimes I get people saying it is all peachy, others saying it is hell on earth. Numbers would help me put things into perspective.


posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:45 PM
reply to post by nydsdan

Here's my breakdown, I may have missed a few things

Car Tax £185.00
Gas & Electric £780
Home Insurance £200 (required legally)
Car Insurance £400 (required legally)
Fuel £1790 (70 odd % Tax)
Dental £120
Income Tax & NI £6500
Medical £100?? (Thankfully not much although I think the NHS will be destroyed in the next 10 years without any tax refunds)
Mortgage £5400
Food ~£3000
Council Tax £1300
Car MOT and yearly Servicing £200 (required Legally)
Pet insurance £130
Other debts £1000
TV License £130? (Legally Required)
Broadband £120

Then 17.5% Tax on all purchases and a few other things I've probably missed

This leaves about £60 - £100 a week for entertainment, savings, holidays etc which isn't much when you consider what someone on "disability" (I mean the ones without actual disabilities) gets which I believe for a couple claiming each other as carers is £360 per week with all living costs either paid (in respect to council tax and rent) and other living costs heavily subsidised.

I should also note that I'm in the north of the country, not the richer south but living costs should be comparable.

[edit on 3/11/2008 by spitefulgod]

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 04:58 PM
reply to post by spitefulgod

OMG you guys are getting hosed. It better not get like that here. That is ridiculous. You guys are getting it way worse then we are and its bad enough here. If I was you I would move to another country or overthrow that one

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:25 PM
First of all 95 % of tax revenue comes from business and big business at that. So how is taxing the little man going to help the government ???? We need a business man in the white house not a politician.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:41 PM
It's this simple: if everyone starts using less energy then the energy companies will have to raise the prices to "keep up", i.e. keep up their profit margins.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:50 PM
Actually all family income below $42,000 a year does not pay income taxes once they've received their tax refund at the end of the year. Those families could change how much they pay per check to 0, but then they would not have as large of a tax refund check.

Every person pays payroll taxes, payroll taxes are for social security.

Interestingly enough Obama wants to raise the Capitcal Gains taxes on realized income. This will hurt many retired individuals, but will not hurt the million/billionaires. Most million/billionaires like Warren Buffet have unrealized capital gains, so they literally pay 0% taxes on the millions of dollars they earn per year.

Obama wants to tax what I call the working rich, and not the old money rich. I personally think we should go to a fair tax, or a flat tax, so this is not a political issue anymore. Seems to me we could save more money by having businesses collect the taxes, instead of the government. Plus, we would reduce government power, and corruption at the same time.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:52 PM
What I linked above was the bush tax cuts. If you notice the tax cuts were reduced for everyone in all brackets. When Obama voted to end the Bush tax cuts he did vote to increase taxes on all brackets, including the working poor.

It is still important to note that, they would have received all their money back at the end of the year with their various tax credits.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:33 PM
I pray he does not get elected tomorrow!!!! He is a scary and not so stable individual.

McCain/Palin all the way to the white house!

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:58 PM
Okay, energy is very price elastic, that means the demand doesn't fluctuate much with respect to change in price. Therefore by taxing energy, the companies will be forced to improve the efficiency or abundance of their products so that it negates the incurring loss absorbed directly from the tax.

Or in other words, the energy companies will be forced to improve upon themselves and look for natural sources.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:10 PM
Ugh....This is a scary election....

Emotions are way too high, and quite frankly, I won't be surprised to hear multiple reports of rioting and fist fights at the polls tomorrow...

Logic, it seems to me, has been thrown out of the window, which is indicated by people ignoring all of the "past" statements made/votes cast by both candidates in the past...Just like this video...

Two hours ago, I was in line at a supermarket in a large city, on the way home from work, and an individual was asking people if they are voting tomorrow...

A few said that they were not voting, as they are not registered, but they were pulling for Obama...The individual told them to bring their driver license and a current utility bill to the polling center and register tomorrow morning...

And then, within minutes, the individual and some other shoppers were chanting "Obama '08, Obama '08..."

THAT is scary...

Fortunately, I live in a small town and do not anticipate much of a queue tomorrow nor any incidents...

As to who I'm voting for...If things go really well in the future, hand me no credit...If things get worse, hand me no blame...

But God help us tomorrow if the popular vote is trumped by the Electoral vote...Regardless of which candidate wins...

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:21 PM

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Punitive taxes and fees to CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR to that which the POTUS wants ...

You are forgetting the part where people agree with it and that's why they vote for it

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:24 PM
Setting policy is the job of the President. They way the tone is set for a nation is to incentivize and decentivize.

If the president did nothing but stand there and wave, while his rich buddies raided the coffers, you would have another Bush presidency.

The "Whatever he wants" part of your rant is deluded. Only Bush / Cheney ever stood the checks and balances on their head and did what they "Wanted" unrestrained. Obama will hopefully undo the damage and restore democracy from what has nearly become a dictatorship. But if he chose to continue the assault on our founding prinicples. You can blame Bush / Cheney who pioneered the way for bananna republic dictatorship in America.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:37 PM
"He's going to raise prices..."

Will someone please explain to me how a President can raise prices?

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:43 PM
reply to post by Cyberbian

Wow, could you drink some more Kool-aid? Saying something like that is similar to calling Obama a Marxist, oh wait he is a marxist.

Let me get my glass of Kool-aid as well.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:52 PM
reply to post by Stuship

Obama is not a Marxist. I know this because I am Karl Marx. You done gots schooled.

Seriously he is not.

Mmm denying ignorance is delicious.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:53 PM
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

A new hummer has a far smaller "carbon footprint" than the types of cars "poor "people drive. Get your facts straight before you continue to spew that mindless junk

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