Obama wants 'price signals', page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 24 times


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 03:47 PM by truthquest
Originally posted by ThichHeaded
This is on EVERYONE - except the poor, he claims.

Interesting thing is..

Most of the things that are bad for people poor people do/use.

EXP: cigarettes, beer, and clunkers.

Tax the crap out of those and who are you really taxing?


Thanks for pointing that out, because its really important. I tried pointed that out on the socialism thread and nobody seemed to notice. In fact I listed five taxes on the poor and not a response. It is sad and pathetic in my opinion.

1. Social Security. A SIXTEEN percent tax. SIXTEEN!!!! Obama will do nothing about it.

2. Corporate Taxes, since all corporate revenues come from consumers in the end, and luxury goods corporations are taxed at the same rate as basic needs corporations. (not that there is an official definition) Obama will do nothing about it.

3. Sales taxes, as you point out. Food, shelter, and clothing are all taxed! Obama will do nothing about it.

4. Income tax, as even those who earn a very low sum still have to pay it. A $20,000 salary does very little for you in the US yet that is taxed a large amount! Obama just may do something tiny about it, if we are lucky.

5. Inflation. Since the poor have what little wealth they have in cash form instead of real-estate/stock market/etc they have no protection from inflation, unlike the rich. Furthermore, the rich are the ones who get the freshly printed money while the poor are left with the inflated money. Obama will make it worse, just like any filthy crook of a politician.

6. Extra fines and fees from banks and creditors. If you are poor you have to pay extra fines and fees for not having enough money to pay the bills you have. Obama will do nothing about it.

7. Government fines, tolls, and fees. There is no break for the poor at all. Does that $300 ticket you have represent an hour of work for you or a week of work? Does not matter. If you are poor then you are simply screwed by government fines and fees. Clearly fines/fees should be easily replaced by jail-time or community service upon request. Or the fine/fee could be wage-based. Obama will do nothing about it.

8. Interest rates. You don't have much money, so you have to pay even more money in interest rates. Though in all honesty a lot of this is simply how good you are at managing finances, poor people are dumber. They don't manage their finances as well. And the end result is that the poor pay higher interest rates regardless of who is to blame. Obama will do nothing about it.

9. Health care. The rich can afford insurance agencies who typically manage to get really good rates. The poor who have no insurance agency are stuck paying whatever the health care center sticks to them. Obama will do nothing about it.

Obama's "price signals" a filthy socialist term for HIDDEN TAXES, is a filthy tax on the poor. As always, Obama wants a million words of code and 5,000 more employees for another failure of a federal program. Obama, just like McCain, is a complete mental defect. Obama does nothing for the poor, just as every other of the 530 or so criminals in congress. And he'll do even less for the poor as president because he'll be busy looking at himself in the mirror and staging photo-ops and campaigning for his banker buddies. I imagine that is a politicians favorite hobby when they aren't particularly wrinkled.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by truthquest]


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 03:55 PM by nydsdan
Originally posted by Resinveins
The fact that he can say things such as this and still be popular says two things to me. [...] And also how the populace here is so disgusted with the current administration that any alternative is acceptable, no matter how questionable.


Well, since this is ATS, I am going to throw a little conspiracy in here. Now, how would you convert a freedom loving, people's rights centered, capitalistic country into one which may be led by a central dictator-like power?

Remember, change does not happen overnight without public revolt. If you tip-toe on the fine line of revolution, you can get just want you want while making the people think they are still in control!

Step 1: Use radical ideologies that directly affect few (abortion, gay marriage, 2nd amendment) to divide society as a whole.
Step 2: Use fear to capture/consolidate resources.
Step 3: Cycle between the two extremes causing each 'side' of the divided public to think they are in charge while...
Step 4: Wait for the mechanism to push one of the two extremes into a dictatorship!

Seriously people, leftism to the extreme is conventional socialism. Rightism to the extreme is fascism. Either way, the people lose the power. The more and more We The People divide from eachother, the more We The People stand to lose.

We are right between steps 3 and 4 right now. And the 'power' pulling the strings is neither republican nor democrat. I think that a win for Obama plays right into their hands however the illogical selection of Palin is a clear 'insurance policy' should McCain pull the upset. (McCain would die before late 2010). Whichever way you put it, we ALL lose when we view OUR country as being "us" versus "them".


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 04:12 PM by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by ForPeaceUSA



So I guess this justifies moving the political structure of the country to socialism? We made it through the depression. We just need to suck it up and get through these times. We shouldnt have to give up our freedom. For me, its not about the money. Its about my freedom to choose what I want to do without the government deciding what and how I live.


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 04:45 PM by spitefulgod
reply to post by nydsdan



Here's my breakdown, I may have missed a few things

Car Tax £185.00
Gas & Electric £780
Home Insurance £200 (required legally)
Car Insurance £400 (required legally)
Fuel £1790 (70 odd % Tax)
Dental £120
Income Tax & NI £6500
Medical £100?? (Thankfully not much although I think the NHS will be destroyed in the next 10 years without any tax refunds)
Mortgage £5400
Food ~£3000
Council Tax £1300
Car MOT and yearly Servicing £200 (required Legally)
Pet insurance £130
Other debts £1000
TV License £130? (Legally Required)
Broadband £120

Then 17.5% Tax on all purchases and a few other things I've probably missed

This leaves about £60 - £100 a week for entertainment, savings, holidays etc which isn't much when you consider what someone on "disability" (I mean the ones without actual disabilities) gets which I believe for a couple claiming each other as carers is £360 per week with all living costs either paid (in respect to council tax and rent) and other living costs heavily subsidised.

[edit]
I should also note that I'm in the north of the country, not the richer south but living costs should be comparable.

[edit on 3/11/2008 by spitefulgod]


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 04:58 PM by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by spitefulgod



OMG you guys are getting hosed. It better not get like that here. That is ridiculous. You guys are getting it way worse then we are and its bad enough here. If I was you I would move to another country or overthrow that one


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 05:50 PM by Stuship
Actually all family income below $42,000 a year does not pay income taxes once they've received their tax refund at the end of the year. Those families could change how much they pay per check to 0, but then they would not have as large of a tax refund check.

Every person pays payroll taxes, payroll taxes are for social security.

www.moneychimp.com...

Interestingly enough Obama wants to raise the Capitcal Gains taxes on realized income. This will hurt many retired individuals, but will not hurt the million/billionaires. Most million/billionaires like Warren Buffet have unrealized capital gains, so they literally pay 0% taxes on the millions of dollars they earn per year.

Obama wants to tax what I call the working rich, and not the old money rich. I personally think we should go to a fair tax, or a flat tax, so this is not a political issue anymore. Seems to me we could save more money by having businesses collect the taxes, instead of the government. Plus, we would reduce government power, and corruption at the same time.


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 08:43 PM by Stuship
reply to post by Cyberbian



Wow, could you drink some more Kool-aid? Saying something like that is similar to calling Obama a Marxist, oh wait he is a marxist.

Let me get my glass of Kool-aid as well.


reply posted on 3-11-2008 @ 08:52 PM by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Stuship



Obama is not a Marxist. I know this because I am Karl Marx. You done gots schooled.

Seriously he is not.

Mmm denying ignorance is delicious.
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