I guess both Bush and Hillary and Obama are fans of the Texas Long Horns

reply to post by SonicInfinity

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Why do you (and those like you) consider this to be a Masonic hand gesture?

I personally don't think it's Masonic. However, I will throw some data into my Conspiratron-9000 and see what it says.



I'm wondering how close my machine will be to the 'reasoning' that it's a Masonic thing?

reply to post by Merriman Weir

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I don't get it, sorry.

I think the response at this point in time is normally something along the lines of "you don't get it because you're not a high enough level Mason to be told the truth about the Mason conspiracy" or something.

Isn't the Masonic conspiracy that it's really some terribly ancient and evil sect whose origins run through history and other organisations like the 'Devil worshipping Templars' and that Masons are really controlling the world with their puppet politicians - like Obama, Clinton and Bush.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

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I think Masons [generally] are good people, they seek truth and understanding through a spiritual path. thats not to say some members practice other 'traditions', but by and large Masons are good people, so i hear.

ok, why cant we just accept the fact that Obama loves us ALL!

Interesting. Maybe ACDC is Masonic as well.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by cognoscente]

Hmmm. Specific assertion, though a little light on tradition or reason.

Let's zero in a little here. I'm troubled by the word "supposedly" which is a bit of a weasel word. (i.e. "supposedly" according to whom?)

In observing the reaction, it seems like the Masons on here are a bit flummoxed by your assertion that "supposedly it means Lucifer in Masonry" -- meaning they've never heard it or seen it and are trying to understand where / when / why / how this "sign" means "Lucifer" in Masonry and/or how you come to make that assertion.

Can you cite a source, or is this just your opinion or perhaps something you've heard? (i.e. a rumor or an unsubstantiated opinion)

Please enlighten us on how the sign comes to mean Lucifer in Masonry. (Eg. -- you've seen it used at your own lodge; your coven uses it in this way; your grandfather, a Mason, told you it was the case; you saw Marilyn Manson do it at a concert; it just "seems" like it should mean Lucifer, etc.)

Do tell.

[edit on 11/3/0808 by Sandalfon]

reply to post by Sandalfon

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Which brings me back to what I asked the OP earlier, and now expand to anyone in the thread:

On what basis is this being judged as Masonic?
What experience do you have to make a defining statement on what it is or isn't, or it's meaning?

Edit: Forgot my grammar.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by RuneSpider]

I don't know sign language, but I do know freemasonry. This doesn't mean anything in freemasonry and never has. It certainty doesn't mean "Lucifer" since "Lucifer" is not something freemasonry concerns itself with in its degrees. It would be like asking where the symbol for canned tuna is - there is none.

One thing that always find puzzling is how people believe freemasonry has all these signs and symbols for things that the fraternity never addresses nor cares about. I mean, to make it believable, I would presume that people would at least find a real symbol or find a real subject that freemasonry addresses in its degrees.

Bush is simply showing his "Texas Long Horns" spirit... His wife & daughters throw this sign around as well...

Obama is saying "I love you"

And the European leaders are most likely just warding off the "evil eye".

I love a good conspiracy just as much as the next guy...but this one ended up in dead end for me.

Except of course - the picture of Obama making a shadow puppet with his hand...people were sure he was saying "SATAN ROCKS". hehe

Then there's the connection with celebrities. Matt throws it down:





Which is very obviously different from the Satanic hand sign:




[edit on 3-11-2008 by dr_strangecraft]

[edit on 3-11-2008 by dr_strangecraft]

How about when Nixon use to throw up the two victory signs V V? If you put two V's together they form a W. Was he really giving us a sign that George W Bush would be a president for two terms? I say two because he used two hands to form the W

I think Im on to something. With Obama flashing that sign he is really showing that he is a fan of Bush. If you look at the sign it looks like a W.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by jd140]

no.

it isn't a "secret masonic symbol" when obama does it. or mccain. or bush. or clinton. or anybody else.

there are secret societies that have substantial political pull. the masons ain't one of 'em. nobody outside of screwballs who weren't allowed to join the masons and the masons themselves give a damn about what the masons do. at least the latter are having fun throwing bbqs and giving money to charity and whatnot. the former are just creepy.

here is a free clue: sinister secret societies like to remain secret. this means not flashing around super-seKret symbols or doing secret handshakes or doing secret mystical dances in front of large crowds full of cameras and reporters.

rock on, you crazy diamonds.

Still kinda waiting for a reply from the OP and others on their expert identification here.
Seriously, on what basis are hand shakes being judged, and who decides they are Masonic?
I've seen some YouTube videos, but that's about as far as I've seen.
Those are usually filled with someone's opinions, not anything verifiable or why exactly they Identify them as Masonic, illuminati, Oddfellow, or pastafarian.

I think you're going to be in for a very long wait.

As I said in an earlier post, I can imagine if someone was desperate enough they could try taking the Templar and Baphomet theory and taking the conspiracy that these devil-worshipping Templars and then, using the theory that the Masons' origins actually lie in the Templars and therefore modern day Masons are actually 21st Century devil-worshipping Templars.

However, I'd like to see some pretty solid evidence to support this. As well as proof as to why the sign specifically refers to the idea of some Masonic meaning as to opposed to a general 'rock on' or 'I love you'.

Incidentally, although I've seen the American gloss for 'I love you' used here in Britain, it's not common usage and is a fairly recent adoption, in the same way that a lot of spoken American slang is a fairly recent import. If it's being suggested that it's not coincidental that an allegedly Masonic symbol is the same as 'I love you' as in 'I love the devil' or something, the fact that sign language differs internationally kind of undermines this.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

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Heh, I've been here for bit so I know how it works.
I was just hoping to hear something other than the genral posts which go:
" Lookit these pictures I've found! They are so Masonic!"
" Yeah! Lookit these to! It's evil Masons!"
ATS Mason: " No those aren't!"
"What would you know you're just a Mason!"
Rabble Rabble Rabble

Ect.

The best I usually get is a Youtube video of good ole' Billy.

reply to post by RuneSpider

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You know, sometimes I think we could just forgo all the posting and argue with ourselves by posting things like that conversation every so often