Originally posted by calihan123
Of course women are going to get raped. These men are stuck over there for months, or years at a time with no contact with women.. if one comes in site, you better believe they are going to rape her.

That is a sad reality of having women in the service. But they should know the dangers of that happening, before they decide to become a soldier. How could they they not know that would happen?

Men are very sexual. When you take that away from them.. they do things they wouldnt normally do. Sex literally can control them. So whereas they wouldnt rape a woman in normal life, over there they do because sex is taken away from them.

So in fact you are saying that if a man is not able to have sex, he will rape someone. That is sad. You are truly mistaken. I know men that don't have sex (besides with themselves) for long periodes, when relations don't work out or when a wive dies. They don't go around raping women! They are sensible smart guys.
These soldiers are obviously not. Lack of ntelligence, peer pressure and surroundings play a big role here.
I do not hear these stories from other countries like the Dutch soldiers in Afghanistan. There are women there, and I hear positive stories about their job (besides that they feel somewhat useless in their mission).

This is the reason why women should not be in the military.

Hey, ladies, how many of you are registered with the Selective Service that presses men into combat in "times of need"? Ya, none? Yep, that is equality.

The practical reason, in the US at least, why women are not allowed into Special Forces or submarine duty is exactly for this reason. You see how putting women in combat works out, right? At least from my experience, submarine duty is not something a woman should WANT to do - and why should a woman WANT to die? I don't think the psychology is in evidence of needing woman in the military, either.

I will say this, I would rather a female supply clerk and a female cook than a man - but that is no reason to put a woman in harms way, whether she wants that or not. Woman make children, not kill them. And no I am bot implying woman have a defined "role" in society or anything, but I do believe that woman are better people and as such shouldn't die for any reason.

Originally posted by SolarSeaman
but I do believe that woman are better people and as such shouldn't die for any reason.

WTF? Women are "better people" than men? Do they have a special offer on pedestals in your home town or something? It might come as a surprise to you but women can be as mean, #ty and horrible as men. Do you make a habit of generalising all demographics like this?

As for your last comment, I'm sure that would raise a few eyebrows in psychologists' offices all over the world.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Merriman Weir]

Well when the government lowers its standards of who can join the military you get people with low standards don't you.

Originally posted by -Reason- . . .
. . . a large percentage of women in the military will give it up without a problem or to "further" their careers. . . .

What absolute stinking hogwash.

That sounds like slime from a porn-fed, misogynistic imagination.

To use your fantasies to insult a group of young women who are in Iraq helping to fight a war they no doubt believe in, when 1 in 7 are being raped by their own comrades, is truly contemptible.

Originally posted by calihan123
Of course women are going to get raped. These men are stuck over there for months, or years at a time with no contact with women.. if one comes in site, you better believe they are going to rape her.

That is a sad reality of having women in the service. But they should know the dangers of that happening, before they decide to become a soldier. How could they they not know that would happen?

Men are very sexual. When you take that away from them.. they do things they wouldnt normally do. Sex literally can control them. So whereas they wouldnt rape a woman in normal life, over there they do because sex is taken away from them.

Please dont lump all men in this crap.As a father of two daughters and a man with morals I sorta take offense to that.NOT ALL MEN ARE THAT WAY.Those jerks that raped those women do not I repeat do not represent all men.Believe it or some of us "men" can work in crazy situations with women and not think about raping them.Get a grip

The trouble is , in my opinion from rerading some posts in this thread is that people are quick to blame both sexes. But the thing I haven't read (apart from a slight mention in a post) is that war DOES change the soldiers personality , They might be all god loving when they join (both men AND women service staff) but then after either a few weeks or in some of their cases months, after combat they start to DEVALUE human life, they become so insensitive to people that men and women of ALL sides become objects.
They don't see people anymore , thet same goes for the victims of rape, they are treated like some sort of sub-human object and therefore it doens't matter to the would-be or actual rapist. They just go and commit the act .
And yes I said 'would-be' there has to be some sort of sexual deviancy to commit such a violation in the first place but after combat the above comes into play, Everyone becomes an object, a faceless meatsack , a nameless thing and with that the rapist feels more 'comfortable' with leaving morality at the door. I thought that soldiers from any side where supposed to be the 'bastions of right and honour' and the majority are but there are always a few bad apples that spoil the barrel.
The honourable ones should stick up for the women and either find out who did and take justice into their own hands or totally ostracise the perpertrators and leave tjhem alone when out in the battlefield.
Or at least the women should have an 'honourguard'of 2 to 3 reliable men to walk them to the lavvies. ( before anyone says 'who is honourable?' there are some who are)

What I wonder about most is not why women get raped in our armed services in combat zones, but why these rapes are not censured and punished.

Why do our female soldiers have to wait until they get back to the States and can reach civilian rape crisis centers before they get listened to?

Why do they have to continue to serve in the same unit as their attackers?

It is horrible that even a few of our male soldiers apparently think it's okay to rape a woman, any woman let alone a fellow combatant. And those who compare rape statistics in the armed forces to rape statistics in civilian life really need the think about their logic. We demand higher levels of discipline of our soldiers than our civilians for a reason.

But yes, there will always be bad apples, and there will always be rapes.

But the institutional cover-ups are unacceptable

SolarSeaman

This is the reason why women should not be in the military.

Going with that kinda logic then,men shouldn't be in the military either,as there are plenty of males who have been the victims of rape and sexual abuse.




-Reason-

I'm not dumb and I know that forced rape happens in the military but I also know that a large percentage of women in the military will give it up without a problem or to "further" their careers. These women aren't harrased into or even fight the passes of a superior officer. But then the two get caught and the military calls it rape.

I find it laughable that you start of saying you aint dumb and you follow it up with a dumb and ignorant comment.

For those who do not know,the evidence in/on the vagina will usually tell you if a rape has occurred.If it is rape then there is tearing and bruising within the vagina because the woman was not aroused and 'open.' When sex is consensual the woman is 'open' and therefore there is no tearing or bruising from the force a rapist needs to use to enter the vagina.




craig732

Combat veterans, male or female, allowing themselves to be raped? These are trained warriors, more than capable of defending themselves. The US military veterans that I am friends with have all said they would use their combat training and fight to the death before allowing themselves to be subjected to this.

Allows themselves!? Who the feck allows themselves to be raped!?
Just because they have combat training doesn't mean that they will win in a fight every time.And these trained warriors are being attacked by other trained warriors and just because they end up being raped doesn't mean they didn't put up one helluva fight first.As for talking with veterans,its very rare to find a man who will admit to have been the victim of rape.No man likes to admit that he has been emasculated.





americandingbat.

Good questions all.

Why do they have to continue to serve in the same unit as their attackers?

And to fight along side 'em too?
Would a victim of rape protect their rapist in a shoot out?





[edit on 3-11-2008 by jakyll]

AH, yeah there is harassment and rape among males...any one have numbers on that?

Women are "better people" in my mind because I hear less crime reports and see lower numbers of crimes committed by women - violent or otherwise. And I do have a very generalized view of people because I think when we allow ourselves to be too specific about people things like, oh...Rwanda happen. That's a non-issue though, huh. (I am not a clinician nor am I "very" educated yet, so take that however you want I reckon.)


So, well...is there a definable solution to the issue of male on female rapes in the military? Yes, sure there is (in my opinion). Is there a definable method to prevent the military (or anyone else) from raping civilians? I can think of one...

The Lesbian Issue. My Air Force Career started on August 15th, 1967 and ended with an early out in May 1971. In the one year of that time that I spent stateside, I dated several WAF's (Women Air Force). Through those relationships, I also met and became friends with others. Now although I am sure there were gay women just as I am sure there were gay men, I personally never saw it. Went to lots of parties on and off base and saw nothing more that one would see at a party of men and women.

During my three tours of Vietnam, although a lot of my female contact was on the professional level , I became very good friends with several women who were in support services, including Nguyen who was with AFVN, and I guarantee she was not a lesbian.

I think this statement has the same merit as the All Soldiers one that I addressed on Page 3.

Besides.... rape is rape. It doesn't matter even if a woman is a lesbian or straight.... it is a crime against a person that should be dealt with in the harshest possible way.

This issue really beings back The General's Daughter movie with John Travolta. I have heard comments and rumors about rapes in military academies too.

My Dos Cents.

Dave

[edit on 11/3/2008 by Dave Rabbit]