The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

When taking a college composition class in the early 90's, I wrote an arugumentative paper on why women should not be allowed to serve in a combat situation. One of the reasons I used to support my topic was exactly this scenario.

However, I was lambasted by the female students in my class who thought that I was being chauvinistic. I was told that this could not happen if the proper controls were put into place.

It saddens me to know that I was not wrong. I still do not advocate women serving in an active combat theater.

reply to post by dampnickers


Look the most vulgar sexual language a strange man has ever said to me was not when I was dressed like a slut whore.

I was walking down the street and I was wearing jeans and tshirt. Nothing I was wearing was skin tight or provacative. I'm skinny so it wasn't like he could have talked about my huge assets. How do explain this?
I was being a respectable young lady so why degrade me?

Rape is about control. As for those soldiers it's sad that you have enemy fire and have to literally watch your ass?!

I agree women shouldn't serve because things can get ugly just like this scenario. But I guess just shooting those attempting to rape you could be a solution. I would have a no nonsense approach. Try to take my ass and I'll kill your ass.

Hate to make a sexist statement.

But women shouldn't be in the defense services, it's been men for thousands of years.. and should still be. :]

reply to post by calihan123


No offense or flame but that has got to be the worse most sexiest thing I have read on this site to date.

Not only do you blame the victim you justify the actions of the criminal. Women should expect to be raped because it's their fault men can't control their own actions?

Outrageous.

I don't care if I was stationed for 4 years, not only would I remain faithful to my wife I most certainly would not force myself on any of my female comrades.

Your perspective is as chilling as it is deplorable.

There is no justification for rape.

"Hey we're just guys" doesn't cut it with this one.

- Lee

Originally posted by WishForWings
Hate to make a sexist statement.

But women shouldn't be in the defense services, it's been men for thousands of years.. and should still be. :]

Ughhh...what are you talking about?

That comment isn't sexiest it's untrue and indicative of a serious ignorance of world history.

Here please educate yourself on the last few thousand years and the role women have played in defense and offense all over the world.

History of women in the military

The history of women in the military is one that extends over 4000 years into the past, throughout a vast number of cultures and nations. Women have played many roles in the military, from ancient warrior women, to the women currently serving in conflicts like the Iraq War.

Despite various roles in the armies of past societies, the role of women in the military, particularly in combat, is controversial and it is only recently that women have begun to be given a more prominent role in contemporary armed forces. As increasing numbers of countries begin to expand the role of women in their militaries, the debate continues.
Wiki

My bolds.

-Lee

As usual, the opinions usually go to the extremes, Woman provoke it by dressing like sluts, and All soldiers are rapists.

But in truth, any time men are around woman. Things will happen. Its called sexual desire. And while its PC that men\woman can act above their base desires, In reality most man and woman are still human. And have sexual desire.

As to the reason for rape, there is more then one "reason". Lust, power, curiosity, greed, envy, etc. The list can go on forever, and no matter how much the woman supposedly provokes it. Its still the perpetrators fault.

Personly, I think the military should stop teaching abstinence, and accept reality. That man\woman are sexual beings, and adapt a strategy to deal with these situations. Exp. "safe sex", sexual discrimination seminars, possibly sanctioned brothels, Church or group peer supports, etc.

Also to note, there is more "rape" in the military then Men on Woman. The cases of male to male, female to female, and even female on male is underreported as well.

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by Sonya610
the bit about women not drinking and dying of dehydration sounds too odd.

sheesh they could have peed in a cup if it came down to it. Surely they knew that lack of water would kill them far faster than anything else.

I have to agree with Sonya610.

This whole story stinks of BS. Col. Janis Karpinski is not a reliable source. Do some research on her and you may question her testimony in this case.

Combat veterans, male or female, allowing themselves to be raped? These are trained warriors, more than capable of defending themselves. The US military veterans that I am friends with have all said they would use their combat training and fight to the death before allowing themselves to be subjected to this.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by craig732]

ALLOWING themselves to be raped? Do you realize that you are putting the blame on the victim? When someone jumps you and holds a knife to your throat or there are several men on one woman do you think there is any way she will be able to stop what is happening? I have stated before I would rather die (fighting hopefully)than be raped. I'd like to think I could fight off my attacker in any situation but the truth is I may not be able to. It isn't necessarily because women are too weak either- its because the rapists are sneaky and don't want to work too hard or have a fight on their hands. They attack when the prey is in a vulnerable position- in the shower, in or around the toilet, sleeping even. The whole idea is that these women are supposed to be behind enemy lines and should be able to trust their fellow soldiers. They should be able to go take a piss at night without being harmed by their own comrades. They shouldn't have to dehydrate themselves to death or have to protect themselves against the other American soldiers. Certainly they shouldn't have to fight to the death to avoid rape. Military rape victims are not any less a soldier or any more deserving of rape because they were not strong enough to fight off a rapist.

side note: People should also check out false rape report stats, since it is brought up a lot when these debates open up, and it has been mentioned in this thread. A very small percentage of rape reports are fabricated. Here is one statistic. It is not a feminist site either. I know it happens, but not as much as people want to believe. It is hard to fake that little death that happens inside you when you become a victim of rape.

And how do we do this?

Are we to totally do away with all the support staff as well?

Get rid of all the female nurses, female sectaries and all the other support staff positions that woman have held since 1776.

Fine, that might get rid of military female rapes on base, but then there is the famale rapes of civilians, and homosexual rapes to deal with as well. Should we simply remove the sexual organs, and when they still rape without the organs, then what?

There is no simple solutions to complex problems.

Originally posted by WishForWings
Hate to make a sexist statement.

But women shouldn't be in the defense services, it's been men for thousands of years.. and should still be. :]

Originally posted by calihan123
Of course women are going to get raped. These men are stuck over there for months, or years at a time with no contact with women.. if one comes in site, you better believe they are going to rape her.

Men don't rape women. Rapists rape women.

One is human. One is a monster.

I think women in the military should be trained to fight a rapist.
Or even carry a personal alarm in camp. Why no such measures have not been implemented?

do you think that the rise (or so i have been told, i am not in the US so don't know for a fact) in criminals who have been convicted and up for sentencing are being offered the option of joining up may have something to do with it ?.

See the Stanford experiment
It should be taught in all schools across the planet.
It wasn't "undetected" criminals in the army who did Abu Ghraib. They were normal people, under different circumstances these "normal people" transform, they are not used to think for themseleves

[edit on 3-11-2008 by pai mei]

For 8 years years, I was silent becaue I felt the impact of the degradation I'd been through because of Johnny B. Sloan. Time has passed. The hurt never goes away completely. But I am no longer silently living in shame. He was the shameful one, just like the men in Iraq who are raping those helpless women. Don't ever insinuate that they ask for anything, while they were just there trying to make a living and doing their jobs on behalf of our national defense.

Angel
Myrtle Beach, SC

Originally posted by whoswatchinwho
do you think that the rise (or so i have been told, i am not in the US so don't know for a fact) in criminals who have been convicted and up for sentencing are being offered the option of joining up may have something to do with it ?.

Whos- I don't think they offer that as an alternative anymore- maybe 20 years ago. Air Force will not take someone with a serious criminal record or anyone who has not completed their HS diploma or GED. Someone will correct me if this is wrong- I have been out of the military for a few years. I don't think you can take any of the armed forces as an alternative to jail. I knew a few retirees who entered the Armed Forces to get out of a jail sentence for misdemeanors but. like I said, they were retirees who went in over 20 years ago.


Oracle -I bet money has something to do with it. I was never taught anything except how to shoot a gun as personal defense. And you know why? Because I worked with money- they wanted to make sure I could defend the cash. I was posted as a guard at a building after 911 where I would take shifts at 3 am with no phone, no radio or weapon. I don't know what I was supposed to accomplish if the enemy showed up. No cops came around to check either.

reply to post by raven bombshell



I guess we can only warn women recruits what they are up against. Are they at least allowed to bring their personal security device on camp? pepper sprays, tasers and alarms?

reply to post by dampnickers

Before women were allowed in the army, there were no rapes. Simple.

Not simple.

Rape has always been the handmaiden of war.

It's traditional for conquerers and occupiers to rape the conquered and the occupied. It's gone on for as long as there have been wars. Even UN peacekeeers have been known to rape women and children in communities where they have been quartered.

Comrades in the same army raping one another - now that's a bit of a novelty. On the whole, I find it a bit less repulsive than the thought of men with guns raping helpless housewives, nuns, grandmothers and little girls.

But only a bit.

Originally posted by TheOracle
I think women in the military should be trained to fight a rapist.

If they're front-line soldiers, you'd think that they'd already have the training to fight off a rapist.

Perhaps they feel, like some civilian women, that it's better to 'submit' and be a rape statistic rather than risk becoming a murder statistic.

Originally posted by calihan123
Of course women are going to get raped. .... Sex literally can control them (Men).

What utter nonsense. Makes e sck. You can be my first "ignore". There is no justification for such brutal mean criminal behaviour. Maybe all women should be in veils and not show themselves in public so as not to tempt those poor week men? This thinking is evil. Blame the victim. You sound like a Fundamentalist Shiite Moslem.

I have been in active service and, luckily, have never experienced any such acts. Notwithstanding this, I would not, under any circumstances, have tolerated any of the men under my command to get away with committing such a henious crime. Rape is one of the most serious acts that I can think of and should be punished accordingly.

A true professional solider should be physically and mentally fit in order to carry out his/her task. His/her task is to keep the peace, defend his/her country and above all PROTECT THOSE WHO CANNOT PROTECT THEMSELVES and not prey on them. A soldier is a servant of the state. He/she protects the values of his/her countrymen. Rapists or any other criminal have no place in the armed services. These poor unfortunate female soldiers are there to carry out the same duties and protect, not to be attacked by the very people who should be watching their six.

Sorry for ranting. I hate anyone who belilttles the good name of PROFESSIONAL soldiering.

For those that hold true the values of the services, both our American cousins and of the British Armed Forces, serving both at home and abroard, I salute you.

Be rest assured, some of us do value your sacrifices.