The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

Originally posted by AlienChaser

Rape is about control, a violent act usually against women
and has very little to do with sexual desire. Some rapists
get horny even thinking about forcing someone to submit
so the actual sex is more of a side affect, it's an act
designed to conquer and humiliate the victim. IMO

The worst part is that it happens in the military..

Yes it is stressfull fighting war and I'm sure that
pushes soldiers who wouldn't normally do that "over the edge"

That said these are still US soldiers who are supposed
to uphold a high level of disipline no matter what.

Rape is about the worst crime that can be commited and should
be punished even more severly when done by those in the military.

I agree, however I would just like to say that people capable of rape whatever the conditions should NOT be in the military. I'm not going to discuss what I would want to happen to them outside the military but think about it like this...

If they can act so compulsively so satisfy their own sexual desires then what else could/would they be capable off?

To me being a soldier is the most prestigious and honourable job one can have albeit maybe lesser paying. It's the same argument again and again, how can soldiers do this? How can cops abuse their power?

As I have said everyone is human at the end of the day and people need to realise thats theres a lot of nasty people out there, don't judge a book by its cover. Don't be suspicious, but never assume anything.

Harold Shipman? Ted Bundy? Seem like good people on paper and both we're highly educated and held very good jobs, however look what they did to people.

reply to post by Death_Kron


A star for you.

I've made it my point to give everyone a star who says something good about their soldiers in these forums. I'm sick of seeing crap like "Of course, soldiers are all insane murderers with no education who kill innocents get like 50 stars." That makes me sick.

Originally posted by Revealation
I don't condone these actions in any way or blame the women, but I do have to say that this isn't a place a women belongs. I don't agree with women on the front lines or as police officers on the beat,etc.

Fact is men are the physically dominant species since the beginning of time and regardless of what people think, women shouldn't be fighting wars. This is that womens lib equal rights crap they been fighting for and look at the situation it put them in.If a woman is in the services it should be behind a desk using their inteligence, not braun.

Also look at what a bunch of pathetic super dweebs this country is breeding. All of the computer savy physically inferior men.Society is undoing what tooks centuries to evolve and is reversing the roles of nature.

We all have our places in life.

Whether they belong there or not, thats NO justification for their rapes is it?

Yes men are physically stronger and more physically capable and I too agree that we shouldn't have women "on the front line" but as far as I'm aware no infantry unit in the world allows women to fight - apart from females belonging to certain special units - i.e. mossad etc

If a women is in the services she should be behind a desk? What???
Theres a wide range of jobs/position available to a women in the military that do NOT require physical strength, if I have to sit here and name them all to you that I suppose that speaks volumes about the level of your intelligence.

reply to post by Sonya610


You like the poster before you, obviously did not get the point of my comment.

You also IGNORANTLY disregarded my last comments about penal colonies.

Is that the action of someone using their brain? I think not!

My comment was to provoke thought. We hear all the time of these 'girls' that flaunt it, and cry rape. They are the girls that should be locked up as psychotic cock-teases!

As for the women that are raped in the army, well, as one poster has already suggested, they know they aren't signing up for an easy ride.

Now you cannot tell me that in the dead of the night, they cannot wake a bunk mate, or a fellow female officer and get them to go to the loo with them.

In addition, I do not for one second suggest that the rape of women is anything to be 'excused' in any way shape or form. Again if you learned to read my posts, instead of thinking that you have, you might see that I will refer you back to my earlier comment about it being a shame we haven't got penal colonies any more.

Also, as several have already said here, what about the rape of men in prisions... you seem to want this to be all about women. Why? Do you have a hidden femenist agenda here?

Again, I will re-iterate, for those of you incapable of being able to read simple words on a screen:

Rape is wrong, it is a crime, and those that commit this crime should be locked away permanently (or shipped off to an island prision). However, what surprises me is that you show an inordinate lack of compassion. Instead of suggesting how these women could or should come forward, you vilifiy the criminals... that is just the sort of attitude and stance to take if you want problems like this to continue! Bravo.

Fin.

reply to post by Revealation


I know some female soldiers that could probably give you a run for your money, especially if they heard you say they were "inferior." Face the facts... the world isn't so cut and dry these days.

I hate to do this, because I have the utmost respect for those who protect our country, regardless of individual opinions on war, etc.

The truth of the matter is, military service attracts and oddball group. There is a small percentage that does it for college, money (they usually are discharged) however. I served in AFJROTC in High School, and Army ROTC in college, and I'm free of student loans. However, during my time in both of these courses, I noticed that the people in my classes/training, while still great friends, were just plain strange. They enjoyed watching people die, limbs being torn/blown off, and other stuff. Even when I got to the point where I was meeting national Officer Cadets, and especially younger NCO's, I noticed this trend to be the norm. And while I enjoy a good mindless action flick time to time, I'm not going to rewind the Saving Private Ryan d-day scene 100 times and lick my lips while repeatedly watching it. Plus on top of the fact that these people are sexually deprived, usually from their own inability to socialize or uphold intelligent conversation at a bar, but also as well as in their confined areas. Add in the fact that you're throwing thousands of guys with the same macho mindset into a 20 foot radius.

So you're all basically right, a lot of the time these guys are mentally unstable to begin with. The study on the Gulf War Syndrome isn't really even needed. War pushes them to the brink of insanity. Pile on the fact that they're usually social outcasts, and you have the perfect brew for a raping crowd...if that makes any sense.

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

A star for you.

I've made it my point to give everyone a star who says something good about their soldiers in these forums. I'm sick of seeing crap like "Of course, soldiers are all insane murderers with no education who kill innocents get like 50 stars." That makes me sick.

Thanks my friend and I agree, its scary to believe that some people if not the majority seem to support such ridiculous accusations. My Uncle was in the army fighting the IRA in the 70's, my Grandad was in the army fighting the Germans in the 40's and my previous boss was in the army fighting in the first Gulf War.

As anyone they all have their own character flaws and idosyncrasies however without people like this we would all be speaking German right now, under the rule of a major terrorist organisation and problems in the middle east would be sky high.

Okay thats a generalisation but I hope people understand my point, people for some reason seem quick to jump and lambast soldiers.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Whilst I try to see every side to this argument, I have to disagree with what you have said.

Before women were allowed in the army, there were no rapes. Simple.

You are right in that there are a vast array of jobs suited to men and women, but as for going into a war zone... that just seems horribly wrong to me.

Also think about it like this:

You are a fireman. You are six foot six inches tall and weigh 18 stones (heavy). Your partner on the nights duty is a slender woman who is only 5 feet three inches tall and weighs a meer ten stones.
During the nights watch a call comes in and your fire team attends. You enter the house with your partner to look for trapped people. A burning beam knocks you unconscious and you are laying on the ground with your heavy breathing aparatus on, and all your kit. Your partner (the only one in the building with you) is now your only hope of survival. Do you really think that she is going to be strong enough to drag your sorry arse our of a burning building with all that she has to carry, AND you? I think not!

There are some jobs women are just not suited for, simply because they are not 'built' for it.

As for being in the army, again, I shall state: It seems very, very wrong (TO ME)

reply to post by DocEmrick


What you need to realise is odd balls are found in every walk of life and every career discipline. Remeber the strange man at the supermarket? Or the creepy fella at the car wash? What about that scary women in the hairdressers?

In my oppinion these people get noticed more the higher or more prevalent their job is - i.e. they get noticed more in the military as opposed to the bakery industry!

While there are no women assigned within the infantry, we do have women who drive trucks delivering munitions and supplies within the combat zone, we have women with Jump Wings - you've gotta be kidding - females that are MP's and have found themselves in firefights - females that are very much within the combat influenced area.

We have women on our ships. Commanders will tell you that the crap hits the fan just before the ship return to home port after a long deployment. Accusations - true or not - of rape, fights and attacks as the females discover that the "love of their life" is actually married and going to his family, on and on and on.

Females don't need to be there in many of these situations. Even the significant number of nurses and medical personnel in wars past were highly segregated and guarded to minimize this sort of threat. This eliminating and co-mingling of male/females would eliminate a lot of the problems right there.

On one hand you've got a lot of young males, some away from home their first time, testosterone pulsing, who would hump a dry pocket. And we are surprised that certain "incidents" would occur?

Our military leaders have caved in to political concerns and that is something never to be done. A military leader's prime concern should be for the welfare of his charges. Interjecting political and social concerns does nothing to ensure the best interest of his charges. Male or female.

To start with, you set the conditions up to eliminate all threat of such behavior. No system is perfect, but the one we have currently - sucks.

reply to post by dampnickers


I agree to a point with what you have said and myself have seen 5'2 foot female police officers - How is she going to arrest a 6'6 230 pound anabolic steroid user thats had one too many double whiskeys and coke?

But I have to disagree with you saying before women were allowed in the army there was no rapes. Male rapes didn't occur? Male sexual abuse didn't happen?

From the premise of what your saying you think well "if you wernt there in the first place love then it wouldn't of happened"

People don't choose to be raped, just like people don't choose to be held hostage.

You can't say that if they wasn't there then it wouldn't happen, not exactly tackling the problem at the source is it.

The problem is the people who carried out the rapes shouldnt of been there!

Well before you start throwing ALL SOLDIERS into a pile, let's set the record straight. The overwhelming majority of soldiers are respectful of not only their fellow soldiers (whether male or female) but the people whose country they are involved with whether by war or by peace. To make ignorant statements like some of you are doing is ridiculous.

Just as you could make the same stupid statement about Race, Religion, Politics, Etc., soldiers are no different. There are GOOD & BAD.

In my three tours of Vietnam, although we did not have Female Soldiers in harm's way in the jungles and rice paddies, we did have them in secure areas such as Air Bases and Hospitals. Now although I'm sure there were instances where there were incidents of rape, I personally never heard anything in my three tours.

One other point..... I have no respect or sympathy for anyone that rapes a woman whether in battle or at home. I think it is the lowest form of humanity and think they should be punished with the maximum penalties that the law allows.

But get off this All Soldiers BS mentality. It just ain't so Joe.

IMEO, of course.

Dave

[edit on 11/2/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

reply to post by dooper


So the stress of combat is that great that it drives some males to rape females? Get real!

Males and females co-exist in every job on the planet! Why is it different in the military?

Like I said, females have been raped from the males in the restaurants where they both work, or garage or cinema or shopping centre etc etc

It's just stressed more when they are in the military, these rapists shouldn't have got into the forces in the first place.

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


Finally - I'm so glad you said something, especially being a mod. I can't believe the crap these people say sometimes.

I'm a Staff Sergeant in the US Army, currently active duty w/ a wife and a child on the way - I'm working on a forensics/crim justice degree, but I suppose that because some people are committing crimes that makes me a barbaric fool w/ no morals, right?

I wish we had compulsory service sometimes.....

[edit on 2-11-2008 by mf_luder]

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


Thank you Dave, you have made the point I was trying to get accross although it seems to fall on death ears with some people.

There are good and bad people in all walks of life. Fact!

[edit on 2/11/08 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 11/2/0808 by spines]

Rape destroys lives.

Some people seem to think that women can just go report a rape, no problem. Even if you take the situation out of the armed forces, rape is not an easy thing to report or talk about...with anyone.

Most victims of sexual violance feel hurt, and used and most of all...they feel stupid --which they are not. They feel that it is their fault; that somehow they are responsible for what has happened to them.

Most rapes go unreported.

In a situation where obedience and 'one for all' is the demanded mentality, I can see a rape/molestation/harrasment being even harder to report or cope with. These women should be encouraged to report their experiences and offered proper medical care (physical and especially mental). The fact that some of these women are left in the same circumstances (sometimes with their attacker) is disgusting and incredibly depressing.

start rant

Those who commit the rape should be jailed for life. Those who allow it to continue and refuse to act on the few cases that actually get reported should recieve the same. They, unlike anyone else, have the power to help stop the situation and chose not to. They may not be physically assaulting others, but they are allowing others to be assaulted.

They are just as disgusting as those rape...maybe more so.

That didn't contribute much that hasn't already been said, but some of the responses on here had me angry.

end rant

[edit on 11/2/0808 by spines]

reply to post by spines


Agree with everything you said!

Not a one liner.

those numbers seem high. jesus. keep researching to confirm that, but i cant deny that im sure it happens, and more than we think, with more and more randoms entering the military, and not because they're critical thinkers, but because they need a quick fix that joining the military can give, whether it be financial, or to please the barbarian inside.

i know someone fresh into the army, and this person is legit, known him all my life. i could have assumed, but he told me alot of the marines are just amp to get in there, go over to iraq and kill and *SNIP stuff up. he was like, they are crazy, like they are seriously amp to go hurt people.

his fellow army people were not so well trained, although just young punks, fresh 21 most of them. we all hung out at a club during one of their final weeks of career training, and i cant say they acted any more uniformed or intelligent than your average civilian. it was more like an increased ego trip, because they made it through boot camp, they now got their army brothers to back them up, and they just feel like they can take shyt over.

its hilarious to me. im looking at the one dude, who is still like the size of a child, and im like, your not tough, but that army has him on an ego trip. not to mention this kid was not very bright, he had about 3 kids, not even 21 yet, but i admired his will to enter the army, but point being, like one person said, your taking a certain class of society and putting them in the military, training them to hurt people, then putting them in a war situation where the general field of consciousness is about dominating, and just a general huge male ego trip. the classless will surely show their demonic faces, and they will breed demons in that type of environment.

human beings are sooooooooooooo weak minded in general. soooooooooooo weak minded. i cant even express the weak minds that currently exist within this society, and its no shocker the scum bags are creating more scum bags in that hostile situation over there. now im being a bit presumptuous, and i know theyre still a minority, but its gross to even think there is even one crazy thinking he can rape women in iraq, and he is getting away with it.

THE WORST PART IS IM SURE OTHER PEOPLE THERE KNOW, BUT WHATS HIS FELLOW SOLDIER GOING TO DO, EVEN IF HE DISAGREES, SHOOT HIM IN THE HEAD. such a horrible situation in general over there.


i dont think they are doing enough during basic training, and all training there after, to emphasize who the f is on their side, and it might be due to the fact because even military personal dont really agree with the war, and the troops themselves dont believe in it, but they just needed the opportunity to try to change their lives. all six of the guys we hung with were in no agreement of the war, they all just seemed to hit a point where they felt their backs were against the wall, and they needed a way out.

shocking though, the government is not doing anything to truly investigate into this matter. they wont. I MEAN, WHY DOES ANYONE EXPECT A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT, TO INVESTIGATE ITS OWN *SNIP* UPS, AND BASICALLY GET ITSELF INTO TROUBLE. come on now. they might do some little tid bits here and there, and find a scape goat, but the government will never truly hurt itself. would you tattle tale on yourself?

rape is gross!! yuck, but turn on the tv, its not like we dont joke and laugh about rape all the *SNIP* time. ugh, humans sometimes.

if i was a woman, pffft, i wouldnt even join that institution of meat heads. my sister almost joined the navy, and if she would have gotten raped, and nothing done about it, it would be the turn of a new paradigm in this country, i assure you.

its a shame, but even though those numbers seem high, i cant imagine having to fear your own people in a unjustly war situation. yuck, i could not imagine having to want to pee, or shower, but cant, because i dont want to possibly get pinned down in raped.

this is where public execution works well. oh, he raped you, yes, okay. lets run some onsite test here. hey, looks like you did, what do you have to say. sorry, sorry, sorry wont cut it sir. gather the troops, because im going to shoot him in the back of the head in front of everyone, and let them know, that rape is taking very seriously, and if you do it, i will cut your genitals and your legs off, and feed you to the birds. no second chances. have a nice *SNIPday.

human beings sometimes only understand brutality. you ever try to ration logic to a one year old, and it didnt work. of course, and you know why, because they are not intelligent enough to understand. so unfortunately you have grown adults in the same boat, but they are even more of a problem than a one year old not being able to understand. so sometimes, you need to put a bat to their face in order to get the message across.

violence should not be our normal way of reprimanding certain horrible actions, but people need doses of it in moderation. to let them know that your horrible crimes will not always be met with a slap on the hand, nothing at all, or a little jail time. you will sometimes get mauled by sharks in a painful agonizing death.

my opinion. i see why people want the end sometimes, or for ufo's to come down in a mothership and change something, because this is just the stuff reported by the media, and the level of stupidity, and unjustly warranted crimes that go on in the world, but more specifically in this spoiled ass society of america, is beyond me. i just dont understand. how hard is to not be stupid. really


*Mod Edit: Ahhh no on the Censor Circumvention. Cheers.


[edit on 2-11-2008 by alien]

reply to post by Death_Kron


Jesus, Kron, I never said that! Stress and horniness are actually counterproductive. No flying wood under stress!

The reason it's different in combat, or should be, is the very fact that unlike "every job on the planer" in combat, you're doing some very serious work.

If you don't get that contract tomorrow in Spokane, no one dies.

If you don't make that sale in Evanston, no one dies.

If you don't meet that client for lunch in Birmingham, no one gets maimed.

In war, every day is a test - and that test is always - pass/fail!

No do-overs!

Now how can one anticipate a person capable of rape? This isn't Minority Report with Tom Cruise.

There is a serious problem with sex between males and females of the military already! Check out the number of females who during a tour get pregnant and can't complete their military obligation. A lot of young people doing stupid things, just like their civilian counterparts.

No excuse for rape. Ever. For civilians either. But Jesus, we've got to use a bit of prudent precautions here.