The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

reply to post by carewemust

Sudan wasn't caused by the USA or George Bush. ABC/CBS/NBC

I never said it was.
But if you want atrocities that some US soldiers are involved in,which aren't being/haven't been reported on 24/7,you'll find this link very useful.
www.globalpolicy.org...

If intra-military rape were rampant in Iraq, it would make big headlines with ABC/NBC/CBS..period!

No.It wouldn't.
There have been plenty of scandals so far,the government doesn't want any more.Its just the same the testimonies and stories of the Winter Soldiers,they too are receiving little coverage by the mainstream press.
The government is still trying to paint this BS war as heroic and noble and these things are highly damaging to this propaganda.

Originally posted by NickT916
women should stay out of military, there is no need for them there, they throw themselves into a man territory and wonder why they get manhandled ...hmm?

Wow. More ignorant statements. Guess there is a never ending supply of them.

There are MANY MANY MANY roles women in the military can fill and do fill.

I know plenty of woman in the military who have never had an issues...just like many men who have never raped any women.

reply to post by NickT916

women should stay out of military, there is no need for them there, they throw themselves into a man territory and wonder why they get manhandled ...hmm?

So its the womans fault for being raped?

This attitude makes me sick.

And,as i've said to others who have come out with this BS,what about the men in the military who are raped and sexually abused by other men?

Is it their own fault too?

That SOB Freud should have been shot.

Nothing anymore that individuals do is their fault. It's their economic environment, their lack of a father, their education, pressures of society, it's the military's fault, it's a hormone imbalance.

Rape is an individually performed wrong by one human on another. A brutal wrong. There's no excusing it, no blaming anyone but the person who commits such an act.

Personally, I just as soon have the SOB's nuts cut off with a rusty knife in any brutal rape.

In combat, when we got new guys in, I told them we only had a few rules. I told them that we had to have a few, just to stay in touch with that part of civilization we were so far removed from.

"No sleeping on guard. If you ever sleep on guard, I'll cut your throat myself and blame it on the Gooks."

"No killing kids. They have no choice who their parents are, much less their parents political leanings."

"No raping females. Not villagers. Not farmers daughters. Not prisoners. Any of us catch you, you'll not live long enough to pull up your pants."

A number of them later with the other guys would say, "he was kidding, wasn't he?" about one of the rules.

They would look them firmly and said, "Not even a little bit. And if he doesn't get you, I will."

No excuse for rape under any circumstances, but in the military, especially in a combat zone, there are options.

This may sound harsh, but by God, it works.

Originally posted by raven bombshell

Originally posted by craig732
Combat veterans, male or female, allowing themselves to be raped?

ALLOWING themselves to be raped? Do you realize that you are putting the blame on the victim?

You missed the point of my post by focusing on the one sentance I quoted myself above.

I am not putting the blame on the victim.

I am disputing that there were victims.

These are combat seasoned veterans who are thouroughly trained in hand to hand combat against multiple threats.

It is highly unlikely that these women were ANYWHERE in Iraq unarmed. In combat zones, where these alleged incidents took place, all soldiers, male and female, will be carrying their rifle EVERYWHERE with them... to chow, to the bathroom, to bed.

This whole story is hearsay from a woman who was demoted for her role in the Abu prison scandel. Produce actual cases where this occured.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by craig732]

Originally posted by TheOracle
Are they at least allowed to bring their personal security device on camp? pepper sprays, tasers and alarms?

No they are not.

They are, however, REQUIRED to carry their rifle with them EVERYWHERE. In most cases they will also have a sidearm and a knife.

Originally posted by jakyll

craig732

The US military veterans that I am friends with have all said they would use their combat training and fight to the death before allowing themselves to be subjected to this.

As for talking with veterans,its very rare to find a man who will admit to have been the victim of rape. No man likes to admit that he has been emasculated.

Hmm, that sounds a bit sexist. Please re-read my quote. I never said I spoke to MALE veterans.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by amazed

 

From that point view you are correct about the power aspect.

Certain situations are more likely to lead to a man using his physical power to overcome and rape a woman than others.

Too much to drink for example and being around scantly clad women all evening, might make a man behave differently than if he was sober and around women in winter cloths. Certain visuals create micro sexual tension, that keep adding up, and a mans self control becomes more challanged as this happens.

On the physical power, the point is taken, that is obvious. The mental part is a completely different story.

One rapist said he literally lost his mind for a few moments, he never understood what came over him in that moment. But it is a choice, a choice that gives into the dark side of depravity and evil.

However there is an overwhelming overriding embedded force that compels most men to fulfill their biological destiny by mating with women, some men literally lose their minds to fulfill that destiny, whatever the cost.

Rape is the ultimate cost to the man and even more so the poor victim.

There is no excuse for evil like this, none. It is wrong 100% of the time.
I am just trying to explain it. And if you understand the nature of sin and it's full scope you gain further insight as well.

I had to do a ton of research on this once when a friend got date raped a few years back, it was so tragic and sad. But it gave me a better understanding that I never had before.

I'm sorry no, a man drinking and a woman in scanty clothing does not MAKE a man do anything. Again, he chooses to do harm, no matter what the situation, it is a choice. You can put the name "evil" or whatever you want on it, but the man made the choice because it was within his personality to, meaning he has a need for "power over" another.

I understand one thing, a man that would choose to rape while drunk, would choose to do so while sober if he felt he could get away with it, and possibly has or will commit rape while sober.

I do not understand the mentality of people who feel that they have to give men an excuse for rape. Their is no excuse, drunk, sober, horny or a million other excuses. It is a choice that is made and it is a choice that causes harm to another.

You also misunderstood my statement and that is, even in the situation you described, underneath all this rapist excuses, his action of rape is about power, not just about sex.

Rape, is always in any example you can come up with, in the end about power over another person, never about sex ie: orgasm, you can have an orgasm by masturbating.

A man's self control can be "challenged" for weeks and months and years and for a lifetime and he still not rape a woman, it is the man that for some reason "needs" that power over another that in the end will use any excuse, she was scantily clad, I was drinking, I had not had sex in blah blah long, it is still a choice that HE makes. A rapist CHOOSES to cause harm to another, no matter what, the person getting raped never FORCES a man to rape her.

Do you really think, a rapist would tell you that he knew exactly what he was doing? Come on, give me a break, and really do some research on the subject please, it's people with ideas like yours that give rapist an excuse.

What is with people who want to blame the woman instead of the rapist who chooses to harm her? It is called "blaming the victim", its easier to do, easier to change a victim that to change a rapist. I am sorry that your friend was raped, I sure hope she had someone with a better understanding of these things than you who she could count on.

Edited to add a link discussing the "blaming the victim mentality"

en.wikipedia.org...

People who believe that the world has to be fair may find it hard or impossible to accept a situation in which a person is unfairly and badly hurt. This leads to a sense that, somehow, the victim must have surely done 'something' to deserve their fate. Another theory entails the need to protect one's own sense of invulnerability. This inspires people to believe that rape only happens to those who deserve or provoke the assault (Schneider et al., 1994). This is a way of feeling safer. If the potential victim avoids the behaviors of the past victims then they themselves will remain safe and feel less vulnerable.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by amazed]

I told myself repeatedly to stay out of this thread, but for some reason I could not resist. I have not read every post, nor will I. No need when threads about the military are filled with the same ignorant comments repeated endlessly so I'm fairly certain the types of things that have been said and the few pages I have read confirmed my assumption. So I have done the research for those of you who won't or can't do it yourselves.

First concerning felons and lower standards for military enlistment.

Army Has Not Lowered Soldier Recruiting Standards
The process for granting conduct waivers is tightly controlled, Siegfried said. For starters, individuals who have committed murder or sexually violent crimes, or those who have been convicted for dealing drugs or who are themselves dependent on drugs or alcohol, are automatically excluded from consideration for service.

The Army also excludes those individuals who have charges pending against them or who are on probation or parole. Today's All-Volunteer Army no longer takes those who have been ordered to join the military by the court in lieu of prosecution -- that means no more Soldiers who signed up to avoid going to jail

Same source:

Last year, the Army let in some 511 recruits that required a conduct waiver for felony crimes. Some of those felony crimes include:

-- A 12-year-old, "trying to mimic a bee keeper using smoke to calm down bees in a hive," lit a bee hive on fire, which caught the tree on fire, which then burned the siding of a house. Because of the classification of arson as a felony, he must get a waiver.

-- A 13-year-old male was arrested after school officials discovered a letter that contained anti-Semitic comments, purportedly written by the subject. It was later determined that the subject's twin brother had written the letter, but only after the adjudication of the offense.

-- A 14-year-old male was charged for having consensual intercourse with his 14-year-old girlfriend.

-- A 14-year-old male was driving his parent's automobile without their knowledge. A friend, riding on top of the car, was thrown from the roof of the vehicle. He later died from his injuries. The driver was convicted of vehicular manslaughter.

All this was prior to all, let me repeat that ALL, felonies being disqualifiers for joining the military. If you choose to not believe me, I invite you to call the army or national guard's 1-800 number or your local recruiting office. Tell them you have a felony, pick one any one, and see if you are eligible to join. You don't have to give them your name, number, address, etc. Just tell them you might be interested but want to know if a felony disqualifies you. If they tell you that you are they must not have gotten the memo.

Now on to rape being rampant in the military and not in the civilian world.

Who are the Victims?
1 out of every 6 American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).

17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.

The statistics are also that 1 out of every 4 college women will be raped.

How often does sexual assualt occur?
In 2005, there were approximately 200,780 sexual assaults. Of these, 64,080 were completed rapes.

Crime in the United States
90,427 reported cases of forcible rape in the US in 2007

And compare this to the statistics for the entire US from the above links.

Rape in the Military. NOW on PBS
Last year, nearly 1,400 women reported being assaulted and raped by their fellow soldiers

Note that says assaulted and raped. Not just raped. They include both in the statistics which falsely inflates the number. Not everyone who is assaulted is raped. Both are deplorable, but they are not one and the same. This is why statistics on rape in general are not very reliable.

Fact Check: Military Sexual Trauma

For those who are trying to defend the raping of women in the military, including those saying the women could help it, that they led the men on, etc. :
The Truth about Rape


~~~~~~~~

Immediate edit to add that rape is absolutely the worst thing anyone can do to another person. There is no excuse for those vile creatures who choose to rape someone.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Jenna]

I dont know why people are so passionate about this ? THis has been happening for decades. It was much much worse before than it is now.

This is the price of Feminism. If the girls want to enter to boys locker room, they shouldn't expect to leave unscathed. War has always been the preserve of men.

Only two types of women thrive in the military. A slut or a mean bit**. In more "civilized" forces like the Navy or the AF, women have a better work environment but even those areas arent 'Rape/assault-free' zones.

Originally posted by IAF101
If the girls want to enter to boys locker room, they shouldn't expect to leave unscathed. War has always been the preserve of men.

This is exactly the type of insensitive, chauvinistic comment that gives rapists the idea that what they are doing is ok.

reply to post by amazed


You still don't get it, do you.

I agree with you THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR RAPE PERIOD and there is nothing that can EVER justify it, I am sorry if my post sounded otherwise to you.

I am trying to convey the WRONG & EVIL reasons why.

It comes down to morality like you talked about. And it's something people don't like to admit, but this dwells within men via the nature of sin. After all rape is a sin of the highest degree even people that don't believe in God generally feel it is an evil act.

Just like murder is a top end sin so is rape.

For example a woman who murders her husband in a fit of rage for whatever reason can't be justified either.
(excluding self-defence manslaughter)

reply to post by Sonya610


Some of this 'waiver' stuff may partly be my fault.

I wrote a book and it was published a few years back. Sold quite a few in Washington, DC. The only folks it would likely appeal to would be military, especially commanders.

One of the premises was that"

"While the military is to be commended on obtaining a more professional organization and trying to obtain better educated and more socially accepted soldiers, the military is truly missing out on some very effective fighters and warriors by their aggressive nature. 'Problem' soldiers have no real problems when you have good leadership."

"We don't need to limit our options to polished stainless steel. We also need heat-tempered, high carbon, razor steel."

"It became clear to all, and especially the king [Xerxes] that though he had plenty of men, he had but very few warriors. - Herodotus

"(Describing the predicament of Xerxes, king of Persia, at the Battle of Thermopylae. Xerxes warriors, from every conquered nation, were some of the best-dressed, most resplendent, and disciplined soldiers in the world, and yet a handful of free Greeks and Spartan Peers were chewing them up as fast as they could advance."

"Not all soldiers make good warriors, and not all good warriors make good soldiers."

And if you have read my earlier posts, you would know that I think that females should not perform in combat-influenced areas.

No excuse for rape, but women should not be present in combat areas unless specifically insulated and guarded from the more "aggressive" warriors.

Originally posted by calihan123

Men are very sexual. When you take that away from them.. they do things they wouldnt normally do. Sex literally can control them. So whereas they wouldnt rape a woman in normal life, over there they do because sex is taken away from them.

When are we going to start taking responsibility for who we are? We have frontal lobes.
Sex doesn't control anyone. Lack of responsibility does.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
No surprise here....

Soldiers= psychotic, suicidal, rapists.
Go ahead and flame, but you all know its true.

How many more reports do you have to hear about military retards either murdering or torturing Iraqis(and even puppies!), killing themselves, or being victims or rape.
Has anyone run into one of these guys.....I have multiple personal stories of run ins with military personnel, that I would be happy to share.

These people are human garbage, and don't go blaming war. It's hard to have a lot of sympathy for anyone who would sign up for this war.

-Liquid

When u say.."It's hard to have a lot of sympathy for anyone who would sign up for this war..." I couldn't believe what I was reading...because...I found myself thinking the same thing!!! I hated myself because I live in a Military town...*Great Falls MT* and I would look at these soldiers with contempt almost....but I knew I should be thanking them. I then asked myself...thanking them for what? Going on with a war that they now know is a LIE...All the innocent victims of this war, Americans, Iraqis, Brits..etc..Most Americans know 911 was a false flag so George and his buddies could get a foot hold into all that black liquid gold which equals POWER! I can't say that I believe any of the Men and Women that walk out of there saying they didn't know any of these truths...they're told to their face to lie...I've done my home-work and heard it out of the Hero's mouth that are willing to stand up and fight for truth!

Anyway's.. just wanted to let you know that I appreciate what you said. Let's me feel a little bit better about myself.

p.s. I don't hate Our Troops and of course I support? them to a degree...I support those that have the guts to stand UP and to tell the truth....after all...that's what their honor is built on! Your not protecting anyone by paying tribal leaders not to start violence....once the monies gone..then what? Thats only 1 example....

I thought that soldiers carried guns. If one woman put a cap in one of these rapists you would see this type of behavior stop immediately. G.I. Jane, go get him.

This is absolutely terrible. I am completely and utterly disgusted by the commanders for allowing these incidents to go on. I need to read through the thread, but had to weigh in on how disgusted this makes me feel.

In addition to starting a war for all the wrong reasons, it seems that honor flew out the window as well.

War Crimes against your peers....
DocMoreau

So if you look at the rape rates on colleges, it seems that the average college male is even worse than the average soldier when it comes to rape.

How is it that we have such low quality of men attending college?

reply to post by poet1b


You should have addressed these before posting...
Where's the source? What's the difference in ratio of males to females on college campuses and in iraq? How many (ex)soldiers do we have enrolled in college?


That's bad etiquette.

Originally posted by NickT916
women should stay out of military, there is no need for them there, they throw themselves into a man territory and wonder why they get manhandled ...hmm?

Another idiotic statement from someone who seemingly believes that its the women fault for being in the armed forces in the first place and thats suitable justification for their rape.

As someone has already posted women have been in the armed forces for over 4000 years, theres plenty of jobs a women can do in the army just as good if not better than men.

I can't believe how ignorant your comment actually is, so basically your saying because a women works in a male environment she should expect to be raped?

Would you deserve to be eaten just because you was working in a zoo?

Now I'll concede that some people could say well the chances are higher of a women being raped in the armed forces as she's most likely going to be having contact with more males, however she would probably be having the same contact with the same amount of males outside the military.

As I have said before in this thread, there are good and bad in all walks of life - the military is no exception.

For you to imply that a women deserved to be rape is quite worrying to be honest.