In the history of ATS has a truther ever changed his/her mind and decided Osama did it ???

Originally posted by SuperViking
Many terrorist attacks perpetrated by OBL aren't mentioned, only the initial ones. What aren't you getting?

I'll play. I'm not getting that the, you get that?...THE most destructive, important, and sophisticated attack on US soil is not listed under his name? Just some stupid little things he did in other countries? I thought you said that the FBI didn't have any jurisdiction overseas? Name ONE thing under his name that is on US soil. Shouldn't THE biggest attack on US soil be listed? Please. You are done hear my friend. Unlike jref, we will rip you apart.

BTW, wasn't the argument against Ultima being in the NSA that he actually stated he was in the NSA? So, why should I listen to you when you state the same?

reply to post by Griff


reply to post by Griff


But they already had him listed for attacks. Why completely change it? To appease people that wouldn't believe he did it anyway? Seriously? Look up what Cunanan was wanted for on his file.

I really don't care what you think, I'm fairly certain you don't work in any capacity that I would ever have to deal with you or your thoughts on any foreign policy, international relations, or security, so you can think whatever you want. If you were in such capacity, you'd be informed enough to not make the arguments you are making. I was simply asked what I did and I said it. It's not a secret- I drive into work every day using the same route and everything. This isn't Spy Game.

reply to post by SuperViking


OK Mr. Spy man. You win. You're penis is smaller than mine. Oops, I ment bigger.

If you actually worked in the capacity that you do, you wouldn't be gloating about it.



But, I digress, as my BF doesn't work for the State Department or anything.....or I'm not a Structural Engineer. I'm just some looney on a website, right?

reply to post by Griff


That you think it's gloating. Sorry buddy. Back to the wacky conspiracy theories for you, and keep trying to wave off anyone that actually KNOWS better. They're either lying or a disinfo agent, right?

Originally posted by SuperViking

That you think it's gloating. Sorry buddy. Back to the wacky conspiracy theories for you, and keep trying to wave off anyone that actually KNOWS better. They're either lying or a disinfo agent, right?

As I said, my BF works for the State Department, so, do you really think I'm just saying all government employees are evil? BTW, do you know that about 75% of my paycheck comes from the gov. as I live in DC? So, why would I be actually looking for a conspiracy? I would sleep much, much, much better at night if not.

… getting back on topic…

No, I don’t think many people change their minds around here anymore. 5-6 years back that wasn’t the case. I came here having questions, I honestly did. The forum was more used for information exchange, far less mud slinging. That is apparently a concerted effort on the moderators’ part. The site caters to the more “eccentric” thinkers, certainly not a truly critical thinker. Far more people who point out the truth are edited then the “locals”. If you base everything you believe in on lies from the start, where else would you end up? Most of the thinkers have moved on.

It still is fun to come around and read up on the weekly changes in some of the more wacky theories. Trust me, people are laughing… but they are laughing “at” you, not “with” you. Years back it was more fun to laugh at you all, but now it has gotten so much more sad.

I’ve lost track in the past few weeks… are they backing seismic bombs or invisible planes filled with boiled onions?

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
I’ve lost track in the past few weeks… are they backing seismic bombs or invisible planes filled with boiled onions?

Neither. They don't need to.

All that any good truther has to do is to keep poking holes in the official government story.

Originally posted by Griff

Shouldn't THE biggest attack on US soil be listed?

Arresting terrorists after the fact, rather than preventing terrorist acts was Clinton's bag.

I thought it was common knowledge that the FBI has no "hard" evidence, but rather circumstantial evidence and tapes where he says they're responsible - that don't have a clear chain of evidence, and therefore couldn't be used in court anyways. I would guess that the FBI would be hesitant to put somebody on the list using circumstantial evidence. They would want "hard" evidence to do that. However, he could be indicted on circumstantial evidence and arrested. He'd most prolly confess his involvement proudly at that point.

But, I would suspect that if OBL were caught, he'd never see a courtroom anyways.

posted by Griff
Shouldn't THE biggest attack on US soil be listed?

posted by Seymour Butz
However, he could be indicted on circumstantial evidence and arrested. He'd most prolly confess his involvement proudly at that point.

But, I would suspect that if OBL were caught, he'd never see a courtroom anyways.

I suppose the FBI could arrest Usama's bones on circumstantial evidence, if they can find his grave where he has been buried since December 2001.

As to a courtroom, it is really tough to get a skeleton to sit up straight in a chair.

All that any good truther has to do is to keep poking holes in the official government story.

As you have proven before Tazz, your so called “holes” are not changing any facts. You’re using old intel, misleading quotes & plain (plane?) crazy doublespeak as your basis. It takes some reading and basic understanding of scientific principals, but the truth has been out there for years. You also need to admit to yourself that you are not as special as your parents always told you, you don’t know everything & sometimes science is better left to scientists when it comes to splitting hairs. In fact, the only story that hasn’t changed much is the basic idea of the official story.

This is why so few people ever change their “side” on the 9/11 chain of events. 7+ years of nothing other then official story facts, I’d have to say it has got to be hard to stay on a sinking ship, but it seems a current Truther ploy is martyrdom…

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
As you have proven before Tazz, your so called “holes” are not changing any facts. You’re using old intel, misleading quotes & plain (plane?) crazy doublespeak as your basis.

Hardly. But then again, I wouldn't expect you to even see the holes in the official story, Jake. The script that Condi Rice used must be popular, as lots of people seem to use it.

Despite trillions of dollars spent on manpower and hardware, she couldn't imagine anyone ever wanting to use planes to crash into buildings. Nice fairytale, Condi - how do you sleep at night?

You also need to admit to yourself that you are not as special as your parents always told you, you don’t know everything & sometimes science is better left to scientists when it comes to splitting hairs.

Wow, what's the point of that personal attack, Jake? You can't argue with me, so you prefer to insult me? Fair enough, if that's part of your script, continue as you will. You have no idea what my parents told me.

In fact, the only story that hasn’t changed much is the basic idea of the official story.

It hasn't changed much after the MSM told us what happened within the first hour. It doesn't matter how many contradicting reports there have been. It doesn't matter how many witnesses have had contradicting stories, the script didn't change. That's why it has holes in it.

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
In fact, the only story that hasn’t changed much is the basic idea of the official story.

Really? Pancakes anyone? How about thermal expansion?

…any way… back on topic…

The very behavior being seen here is why the movement is not only not advancing, but collapsing. Bickering back & forth, use of buzz phrases, personifying of metaphors, etc. People who feel passionately about something often get heated, but I can’t help but think that extra sting & bitterness the last few months is attributed to the “fight/flight” mentality that people feel when they are debating with themselves whether they should continue to try to save a sinking ship or just abandon ship and save themselves.

Nickels worth of Free advice;
Retreat & Regroup. Study up on the various theories, stay in the shadows & then pounce when anything that you can prove comes to light. Not a misdated receipt or the comments of a washed up comedian, but some actual proof. When you have something, anything, post it & maybe someone will have their minds changed.

Until then, if you are not part of the solution, you are the problem.

reply to post by common-sense


Ok, simple answer would probably be "No." I don't think there are a whole lot of people who've ever changed their minds about this thing. People supposedly make up their minds about a subject in the first half-second of being exposed to it, and very little anyone says or does will change that. Why? Well 'cause people in general don't like to be 'wrong.' It hurts their little egos, and apparently, their feelings, for whatever reason. I suppose I am a bit blessed in that my brain apparently works differently than most folks. It causes me no pain what-so-ever to admit faulty logic or to 'being wrong.' But you can't really expect most people to be that flexible, 'cause people in general are ignorant, small-minded animals, and people 'wonder' why the aliens won't let us in to space.... Do you let rabid dogs out of the pen?

Chrono

"It would be very difficult to change someone's mind regarding 9/11. Only those with a healthy mental state would be open to changes."

"This is because these "pathways" in the brain are learned and reinforced with repeated 'use'."

Anything you say about someone else, you say about yourself.

In my opinion, yes people can and will change their minds'.....and traditionally from "believing" the "official" word to realising, normally through research, that the oficial story is just that.....a big story...full of excuses that defy the laws of physics or the laws of probability..

I love me a good conspiracy and I rolled around in the 9/11 mud for quite a bit. Looked a lot at the towers and the pentagon and ISI and Bush and Larry Silverstein and etc., etc. Asked my friends about WTC7 with that little glint in my eye...you know the one.

Then, after looking at so much of it, it dawned on me how completely and totally impossible it would be to organize that level of operation.

As hard as it would be for a bunch of terrorists with razorblades to pull it off, their odds are FANTASTIC compared to a bunch of government agencies pulling it off. As inexplicable as the collapse of the towers may be, the logistics of covertly wiring those towers for demolition is infinitely more difficult to explain.

So I switched. Forums that is. Cryptozoology is the shiznit.

Oh yeah and I found Truth Movement folks to be horribly abrasive and condescending.

Not everyone in here is with the truth movement; however, I have notice that there is many people in here who cannot wait to slam anyone who dose not believe the official 911 story.
Now for me, I am looking for the truth, I do not believe in the Government official lies.
The Government is responsible for the death of three thousand people in New York; they sat on their behinds and did nothing!
Then they lied about everything I mean everything! In addition, they laugh in our faces and lied us in to a war laughing in our faces, and racking in fortunes laughing all the way to the bank. Also, at the same time our military men are been killed and injured and these very same Government official will not pass any laws to help our military men get the proper medical care. It is as if our leaders in Washington just spit right in their faces.
These men in the Bush administration are a pathetic bunch of lying thieven murders.
I just hope to G-d that we can charge this bunch and make them be accountable for their evil actions.

I get a sicken feeling they are not done yet, they are looting the tax payers out as much dough that they can get their greedy filthy hands on and laugh all the way to their off shore bank accounts. I am talking about Henry Paulson and his bunch of thieves, these people think they are above the laws of the land, and feel they do not have to answer to anyone.

These people in the Bush administration can seal all their records all they want, however laws can be changed and we will find out “why” this sorry administration did nothing on 911 and covered everything up.