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In the history of ATS has a truther ever changed his/her mind and decided Osama did it ???

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posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:57 AM
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just wondering if anyone has ever budged here...

every truther I have ever come across has never given in...has anyone here ever decided that an inside job is ridiculous after first being a believer???

just wondering how much of a waste of time it is to even bother argueing...or do some of them actually listen??? (or read, whatever)




posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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I don't know who did it. I'm not saying it was Osama Bin Laden or an inside job. I just don't know. I really don't have enough of evidence to make a decision beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'd love to get a look at some of the evidence though. Unfortunately, what wasn't destroyed at Ground Zero was illegally destroyed later or been classified due to "national security."

The national security thing doesn't surprise me much. That's fairly common after an event such as 9-11. The illegal destruction of evidence, on the other hand...well, it certainly doesn't discourage the conspiracy theories, does it?



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:11 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Why should anyone believe that OBL did it when he's not wanted by the FBI for it?



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by tezzajw
Why should anyone believe that OBL did it when he's not wanted by the FBI for it?

because he takes claim to it ???



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by common-sense

Originally posted by tezzajw
Why should anyone believe that OBL did it when he's not wanted by the FBI for it?

because he takes claim to it ???

Can you prove that? It's not what he was reported to have said shortly after the attack.

Besides, you miss my point - the FBI are not currently seeking OBL in relation to 911. If a Federal Agency isn't after OBL, then why should anyone believe that he had any involvement with it?

Anyone believing the OBL fairytale is probably reading from the same book where Saddam had WMD and he was ready to use them...



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 02:51 AM
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Few and far between, but there are definitely many Osamaers who do end up thinking about the truth.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 06:13 AM
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In the history of ATS has a truther ever changed his/her mind and decided Osama did it ???

just wondering if anyone has ever budged here...

Can you explain how CIA agent Usama bin Laden with his alleged band of merry little bar hopping pilot trainee rejects, managed to plant the massive explosives which blew the core columns of the WTC Towers, hurling thousands of tons of exterior structural steel columns over 500 feet away in all directions on top of neighboring buildings, and pulverizing just about everything inside the Towers, including concrete floors, walls, ceilings, desks, computers, and people? You did know that bone fragments from these deliberately murdered people were found on top of buildings far away, didn't you?





every truther I have ever come across has never given in...has anyone here ever decided that an inside job is ridiculous after first being a 'believer'???

But 'believers' are the fanatical defenders of the ridiculous Official Conspiracy Theory fairy tale, aren't they? Among the 9-11 Truthers are a myriad of different theories and hypothoses on what went down, as millions of truth seekers struggle to make sense of all the LIES. Government defending 'believers' all hold one thing dear to their hearts; the fanatical belief that the government Official Conspiracy Theory is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me government god.

And yes I have known a few of those who set aside religious fanatacism and the belief that their government was god, who provided their every need, and comforted them when they were sad, and defended them from the wicked and evil doers, and decided, yep; them damnable traitors did it to us.




North Tower Exploding

A clip of the North Tower shows abundant evidence of explosive demolition that is not adequately explained by the official narrative.


by David S Chandler - Physics-Mathematics Educator - BS-Physics (IPS); MS-Mathematics



Original video

Damning evidence of demolition - Yes we see now James Gartenberg.






[edit on 11/2/08 by SPreston]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 06:24 AM
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Just some information peripheral to this discussion: Bin Laden most wanted terrorist by the FBI: www.fbi.gov...

In regard to the OP, I think most times it goes the other way -- OS folks become convinced that some or all of the government scenario is wrong or misleading. I think there are intentional red herrings in the "truther" movement that are placed there to discredit those that oppose the OS -- holograms, aliens, etc.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 06:44 AM
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Back on topic.

I came here (ATS) after watching a Pentagon clip. (missile theory) I was interested, read some threads. Watched Loose Change...had more questions. Then I watched Who Killed John O'Neil.
After watching several videos and reading many websites, I needed answers.

After some time, I got the all the answers. All but one. That one is why did Bush refuse to be questioned by the 911 commission alone. That by itself does not implicate the moron.

So, yes I changed my mind.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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It would be very difficult to change someone's mind regarding 9/11. Only those with a healthy mental state would be open to changes.

This is because these "pathways" in the brain are learned and reinforced with repeated "use".

A similar situation occurs with football players, wrestlers, etc... athletes where as a part of their chosen sport, pain is encountered. These athletes, with a repeated exposure to pain, develop the pathways in their brain to tolerate this pain to the point that it doesn't affect their performance. This has been documented and was even a subject of a Discovery Channel episode.

A similar situation occurs with troofers. They believe in a conspriacy by the some secret shadow govt. They are challenged on it. They argue for the CT. The pathways in the brain are reinforced. Soon, only drug intervention would be effective at correcting those pathways.

One can see the end result by looking at some of the extreme characters in any CT. They are considered borderline crazy by many. One past prominent member here falls into this catagory. He believed in an atmosphere on the moon, no planes, holograms, submarine bases in Nevada, a soul catcher on the moon, and more crazy theories that I hesitate to try and remember, and if I remember correctly, sunk to the level of believing that the "owners" here at ATS were part of some cover story for the shadowy perps.

This is the road that many troofers will also travel without intervention......



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Seymour Butz



This is the road that many troofers will also travel without intervention......


Can one of you polite mods please do something about this childs poor attitute and lack of respect for users who enjoy ATS?



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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How did Ossama know that the U.s and Canada were involved in war game exercises on September 11th, 2001 that had multiple live fly mock hijacking, terrorists attacks and other attacks from multiple fronts?

How did he know that he could use these warames as a way to cover and execute the attacks?

Who gave him all this information?




Here is NORAD being suprised that the attacks are really occuring and is not part of the exercise.


BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test
listen
www.vanityfair.com...

08:37:56
WATSON: What?
DOOLEY: Whoa!
WATSON: What was that?
ROUNTREE: Is that real-world?
DOOLEY: Real-world hijack.
WATSON: Cool!
www.vanityfair.com...

So it is conclusive that the wargames were used as cover to execute the attacks.



This next part is the topping.

08:43:06
FOX: I've never seen so much real-world stuff happen during an exercise.

www.vanityfair.com...
(notice the time)




[edit on 2-11-2008 by IvanZana]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by IvanZana

Can one of you polite mods please do something about this childs poor attitute and lack of respect for users who enjoy ATS?



Oh, none of this is directed at anyone here specifically. If any of my points "sting", it's because they are true. Sorry if that's uncomfortable for some to face.

Actually, I see the borderline crazies as a vast minority. But it is also true that those with a fragile brain chemistry can become suspectible and fall all the way into lunacy and start advocating nukes, spacebeams, etc.....

By far the vast majority are those that are liberal/democrats. They believe that Bush stole the election in 2000, and so they feel fine about lying about 9/11 as a way to get back at Bush. They have no objection to P***ing on the graves of thise that died on 9/11 if it affords them the oppurtunity to "get" Bush. These are rational but immoral thinkers. There are definitely varying degrees of immorality in this arm of the troof movement - it can be seen by the varying degrees to which they are willing to sink to accuse Bush/Cheney/etc... What I find most fascinating is that they totally ignore the fact that Clinton and democrats were saying the exact same thing that Bush said after 9/11. They also ignore the fact that dems have been in control of financing the wars, made promises during the '06 elections to halt it, and then did nothing.

Then there are those that are solely against the wars. They place equal blame on both the Dems and Bush. They are also rational but immoral thinkers.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by common-sense

Originally posted by tezzajw
Why should anyone believe that OBL did it when he's not wanted by the FBI for it?

because he takes claim to it ???


But, yet, that's not good enough for the FBI. I wonder why?



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Seymour Butz
It would be very difficult to change someone's mind regarding 9/11. Only those with a healthy mental state would be open to changes.

This is because these "pathways" in the brain are learned and reinforced with repeated "use".


Does this not also describe the "skeptics/debunkers/believers"? If not, what is the difference?

The rest of your post was just your typical jref vitriol not worth discussing.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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It is a fact that, in some cases, you can go to jail for murder even if there is no body. If there is enough circumstantial evidence the government can send you to jail.

There is OVERWHELMING circumstantial evidence that 911 was an inside job. I'm not even talking about how the towers came down and such. I won't even get into talking points here though.

Now....in regard to your actual question: Until that circumstantial evidence is answered for there will ALWAYS be 911 truthers and the numbers won't go down....only up. So, NO, it is not likely you will see many people change their minds.

Marvin Bush
The Saudi Connection
CIA Bin Laden connection
The ignored Presidential terror memo preceding the strike
Pipeline protection
Poppy plantations running stronger than ever in Afghanistan since invasion
Energy policy benefitting from the war
War profiteering
Missing funds
Silverstein admitting building 7
Classifiying the Pentagon tapes
Aluminum Tubes/mushroom cloud speech
Allowing KNOWN faulty intelligence to be used as justification


I know I said I wouldn't....but I just couldn't help it. The list goes on and on and on. Just coincidences, all these things?? If a person doesn't see it it's only because they don't want to.


[edit on 3-11-2008 by Liberty1]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Griff

Does this not also describe the "skeptics/debunkers/believers"? If not, what is the difference?



Could be true, sure. But don't you find it interesting that the true crazies - hologrammers, nukers, blatant anti-semites, etc.... only inhabit the troofer community? It's very telling that these damaged individuals are part-and-parcel a mainstay of the troofer community, and is accepted as a normal thing in that select group.

So which part "stung" you?



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Seymour Butz
Could be true, sure.


Thanks for admitting as much.


But don't you find it interesting that the true crazies - hologrammers, nukers, blatant anti-semites, etc.... only inhabit the troofer community?


Bolding and italics mine. I wasn't aware that the KKK was a part of the "troofer" community. I'm pretty sure, a lot of them believe as you.



It's very telling that these damaged individuals are part-and-parcel a mainstay of the troofer community, and is accepted as a normal thing in that select group.


First, it is obvious that you have delusions of granduer as these people are everywhere. Or do you not think that abortion clinic bombers are "damaged individuals"? I'm pretty sure that if asked, most would defend the OS palms down.



So which part "stung" you?


The part where you broad stroke anyone and everyone who doesn't "tow the line" as crazies.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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What does the FBI not wanting OBL have to do with anything?



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