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School Clams Up on 'Gay' Pledge Cards Given to Kindergartners

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posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by solomons path
 



As far as I can see, you're placing your own (incorrect) interpretation on what I've written.

I don't appreciate that




posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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I have a few thoughts to add after reading through this thread, there were no replies the last time I saw it.

To StevenDye, all children deserve an equal and unfathomable amount of love whether they get made fun of or not. Everyone gets scarred from something, and everyone gets made fun of for something.


Gay people most definitely have rights, but non more so than anyone else. These cards should be against bullying altogether, not just LGBT or whatever. When I was in kindergarten, I had no idea what the words 'fag' or 'queer' meant, nor did I ever use them.

Do these kids really know what it means to be homo/heterosexual at this age? This is a topic for teenagers. If I had a child, and I found out that they signed a card like that, I might be a little overwhelmed. But if I found out that they signed a card just against bullying as a whole, I wouldn't be surprised at all. This is a part of our culture changing, and I'm sure in 10 years this won't even be a big deal.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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Just like to say goodnight to all in the thread (dawn here)

It's reassuring to know that the majority are protective and respectful of children



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


You know I wonder what would happen if there was an actual reaction to this Gay Pledge card things.

For example: Little Jimmy is more towards the feminine side of the continuum. They hand out gay cards. Kids sign them.

Jimmy starts wearing pink IZod shirts to class.

Little Billy, the strong leader type notices little Jimmy and starts eating lunch with him. They're not 'gay' just like each other.

The teacher sees them holding hands and skipping around the playground.

TEACHER rushes to the teacher's lounge and raises a fuss and Billy is suspended. He has NO idea why.

The point is, this is all a model of the ADULT expectations (and flaws and foibles), and has little to do with the children's behavior.

They see Billy as the model for class leader and we can't have him skipping around and associating with the other kid wearing a pink shirt with slightly effeminate characteristics (none of which is actually sexual, mind you, except in the Adults' minds.)

The Teachers say they want to promote this, yet if something happens as a result of their promotion (that isn't even 'gay' to the children involved) a child is traumatized.

I'm opposed to 'early sexualization of children'. I'm opposed to biased adults imposing their flawed world view on my children.

I'm also opposed to the 'whitewashing'. If they're going to do that then they have to be prepared to tell the children just what gay sex is, and what other paraphilias are. In addition, as one poster mentions above they need to include cards instructing against feminism, ageism, handicapped kids prejudiced and all the other things that get made fun of because they're different.

And they have to be willing to accept consequences for their actions - if they expose kids to this, cause early sexualization and that kid becomes a pedo - then the school should pay the victims. (does that ever happen, I don't know, it's just an example.

I believe if schools owned up to and accepted their role and realized their liability, they'd back off from this and just enforce and model general decorum in the classroom where the emphasis should be on scholarship, not the oddities of human sexuality.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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Goodnight 2 you 2 Dock6

reply to post by solomons path
 


There is nothing wrong with teaching a kid tolerance, but do you honestly believe a 5 yr old should know what a bisexual is, or what a transgender is? Or do you believe a parent should have to be faced with these questions from a 5 yr old? I don't know about your kid, but I would put money on alot of 5 yr olds coming back to mommy or daddy asking what these words mean. I could see alot of parents being outraged when their children come back from kindergarten with these types of questions. But, maybe I don't know, because I don't have kids. I am looking at this from all sides, and trying to gain the perspective of the teacher, the student, and the parent.

Btw, you do know the school even says that it was inappropriate to give these cards to kindergartners?



[edit on 2-11-2008 by schism85]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Couldn't you just as easily done this?

"What's gay?" - "Well, it's when two grown up guys love each other like mommy and daddy love each other." "How?" - "Well, you see how mommy and daddy love and treat and live with each other, like that. Just a little different."

And then repeat that ad-nauseum.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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When I was very young, I had a friend who was 'feminine'.
I didn't think anything of it, we were friends, got along great and he fit in well in class. Nobody called him names and stuff because we didn't understand the concept of being gay.

Then, one day, our teacher tought it was a great idea to teach us sexual awareness. In one "lesson" she 'opened our eyes' to the concept, and said we shouldn't make fun of my friend because he was different. (which, up untill that point, none of us had even noticed)

School became pure HELL for him for the remainder of the year, and the next year he went to another school.

KIDS do not judge based on sexuality, untill they are taught there's something 'fishy' and suspect about it.

Now I'm an adult, if I hear my kid would get instructed in the 'joys' of sexual division, I'd be charging down the teacher's door before you could say 'Gays are people, too'

If they become aware of the difference and ask about it I'd be more then willing to educate them properly, but untill that time, let the kids be kids and don't try to turn them into mini-adults, with all the bigotry, hate and spite that comes with it!

I'm sure most parents are mature enough to teach their children to respect one's differences. I don't need no school to brainwash my kids before they are even aware enough to truly care.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Avenginggecko

"What's gay?" - "Well, it's when two grown up guys love each other like mommy and daddy love each other." "How?" - "Well, you see how mommy and daddy love and treat and live with each other, like that. Just a little different."

You forgot the next line... "Different how?"


Children have this way of finding out what they want to know, and they can be very good at it. And if you simply 'repeat ad nauseum', then they will find out from someone else. That might be a classmate, but it could just as easily be a pedo.

There's really no good way to start 'the talk', but there are plenty of bad ways. I consider one of those is when a child is taught there's more to that plumbing than using the bathroom, well before they are ready to handle the concept of sexual relations.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that the increase in early sexual education is being accompanied by a rise in teenage pregnancies. I'm not saying there's a connection, but I'm not not saying it either...

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius
 


You can't possibly be a parent. I don't care if it is gays or dorks or whatever group you want, I DON'T WANT MY CHILD DEALING WITH HATRED in Kindergarten. Is that such a radical concept for you? If my kid comes home asking me what a "fag" is, I am going to have some serious questions about what is going on at that kindergarten.


Ok first thing dude, Chill man. It's alright. Deep breath. Check it out. Now I am a parent to 2 boys, 3 and 9. Listen, I dont remember what went on In MY OWN KINDERGARTEN 30 YEARS AGO, soooooo why for the love of pete would I make a 5 YEAR OLD SIGN something they have ABSOLUTELY no idea what it is or isnt, they are there for coloring and glueing construction paper!!!

REALLY, it's quite ridiculous to ask a 5 YEAR OLD to not discriminate. So I dont really see the point this teacher is making. And I would find it offensive as a PARENT if my 5 YEAR OLD came home with something relating to ANYONES sexuality from the public school. My god.

I didnt see or meet my first non hetero person until I was I think 6th grade, so um, I think this is quite....It pisses me off that someone would push this on a 5 year old that doesnt need to know or understand SEXUALITY.

KIDS will be kids. They are way more accepting than you are giving credit. They only learn or project what the PARENTS teach them at HOME.
Remember, Kindergarten = Coloring, gluing, Abc's.

Not how to be little (insert your sexuallity) activists.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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Second, I believe that nature decided your sex, by way of plumbing, as either male or femals. That you were born that way.

I need advice here. A person has both male and female plumbing. This person has XXY chromosomes and the secondary sexual characteristics of both sexes.
Is this person a girl or a boy?

What percentage of people are born with XXY chromosomes?
Their primary sexual characteristics are either one male or two female.
They were naturally born with primary sexual organs.
How did nature intend the plumbing to be used. Self explanatory.
They are a boy with the proper plumbing.
They are a girl with the opposite plumbing.

What is the FIRST thing a Dr. says to mommy after birth?
What is the first thing a Dr. says to daddy after birth?
"It's a (boy) or (girl)."
The Dr. looks at the plumbing.
What is the first thing a new father or mother says about their baby.
It was a (boy) (girl), and weighed (XXX) pounds, and is (XXX) inches long.

Homosexuality is predominanlty caused by abuse, age inappropriate exposure to the GBLTH orientation, anger at being made fun of as a child, curiosity, an escapade into the forbidden pleasure, hurt from a heterosexual relationship gone bad, drinking and drug use to loosen morals and values, and other unnatural deviations. IMNSHO.

Tell me and get me the stats on the number of XXY people, and then try to use that to explain the high level of HGBLT population.


XXY males (medical condition): A rare chromosomal genetic syndrome where the person has XXY chromosomes instead of XY or XX. The person is usually male because of the Y chromosome, but has lower levels of testosterone and may have some female-like features.


So there it is in black and white:
A syndrome, medical condition, diagnosis, disorder, illness, malady. DIAGNOSABLE.
And treatable.

A rare medical condition does not equate to the percentage of GBLTH population, so there must be some other cause or reason or explaination.

Which is my answer. Recruitment.

You will not like the answer I gave you.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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The poster who identified pregnancies on the rise after sex education classes. This is in fact truthful.

Drug and alcohol educations do exactly the same thing, they yield an increase in alcohol and drug use.

The poster who described what happened to his effemenate friend after the teacher educated the class. Same thing.

Teaching GBLTH in kindergarten will have the same effect.

A former Surgeon General wanted to hand out rubbers in kindindergarten.

There were 10,000 angry gay men protesting the boy scouts decision. Tell me they wanted to teach young boys about tying knots, campfires, and pinecones.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by fmcanarney

The poster who identified pregnancies on the rise after sex education classes. This is in fact truthful.

That would be me.


There were 10,000 angry gay men protesting the boy scouts decision. Tell me they wanted to teach young boys about tying knots, campfires, and pinecones.

They wanted to teach young boys about tying knots, campfires, and pinecones. Now whether or not those pinecones came off pine trees, that might be a different matter...


Gah, I've got to stop with the bad jokes...

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by schism85
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I agree that there is a double standard. Same thing with blacks calling each other the n word. But it still doesn't make it right for me to say something like that out of hate, or anger.
.

i think you have nailed it right there.

Words are just words. Intent applies meaning. Trying to "ban" words is unAmerican. It is the intent that we should look towards.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I agree. T.V. is a great example of this. While you can say pussy refering to a cat on t.v., you will get bleeped out if you say it in a derogatory fashion. Its the intent of the person using such words.

Anyways, I'm smoking a fag right now.




[edit on 2-11-2008 by schism85]



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by schism85

I think that was something the late great George Carlin tried desperately to get across. I paraphrase: "Even on Disney you say 'We're gonna take the pussy and put her in a box'... Yes, you can prick your finger but don't finger your ..."

I'm gonna stop there before I get into trouble...
But I sometimes wonder if he didn't get so cynical in his later years because despite all of his fame and admiration, so many of his followers just couldn't grasp this one simple message...

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was mosying around, looking for something. The kids were nearby. I kept checking them automatically, as you do. And at one point noticed they were giggling, their hands over their mouths.

From experience, I recognised that they were uncertain .. worried .. confused and a bit anxious.

Watched the direction of their glances and saw two guys. They were wearing make-up and had dyed hair.

One of them was over six feet tall, around 40 to 50 years of age and looked like he'd really been around. Wearing what used to be called a 'safari suit'.

The other was smaller and shorter, younger. Tight jeans and woman's stretch top.

I was shocked. Hadn't seen anything like it before

So no wonder my kids were shocked. These guys were sending mixed signals of a sort two little five year olds could not decipher.


Not to pick on Dock6, who posted a good vignette, but notice the comments I bolded.

They misinterpret (or reinterpret) the situation in their own story, perhaps.

I'm not reading the kids were shocked at all. They were just amused. I can envision them looking around to see what the adults were doing (typically to get context).

This is part of the problem. Adults wanting to meddle in the world that belongs to the child, having them 'grow up' all too quickly.

Again, not a slam on Dock, just using a little slip to illustrate what we all do without realizing it.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


LMAO



That could very well be the case with his fans. He was a great man, but did become a bit cynical towards the end. I believe you are right on.

Btw, I always enjoy your posts.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 


Badge . . . that really is my underlying point, although admittingly never put it so succinctly.

Words and labels are just that and I doubt these children were "educated" on what those labels do or perform. They only attach the moral connotation or stigma from what society tells them or how their parents react. Parents don't have to "tell" children about these things, specifically, to pick up on how the parents view things. Children are immensely more perceptive than adults, especially regarding their parents. They have to be . . . it's a major mechanism in their survival.



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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Equality and justice for all, YES.
Special treatment and protection for some, NO.

But this thread isn't really about the protection of gay rights and whatnot, but more or less what our kindergärtners are being exposed to.

First off, anything with homosexuality OR heterosexuality doesn't need to be exposed to the children in a kindergarten. I can remember up to about fifth grade or whatever it was, I couldn't stand the thought of kissing a girl, much less think about having homosexual sex, or making fun of someone because of their sexual practices. (But again, who has sex of any sort in kindergarten?)

Political correctness needs to calm down a little. Teach the kids respect for one another, that goes a long way.

Peace,
FK



posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Interesting, and for the most part, a well-posted thread. Unfortunately, there are some that would put the interests of like-minded adults (or older classmates) before those of innocent children. Even more unfortunately, this same type of reasoning can also be used to justify horrible acts such as partial-birth abortion - it's for the good of the adult ...

Flagged and starred (many of the posts), like those of my fellow Roman M. Calpurnicus, fmcanarney, schism85 and several others.



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