School Clams Up on 'Gay' Pledge Cards Given to Kindergartners, page 3

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reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:07 AM by fmcanarney

They cannot go and beat someone up themselves... I have not heard a more ignorant statement in my entire life. It was some of the biggest bullys who turned out to be gay at my school, they wern't teased. Sure, the weaker ones were, but there were weaker straight people aswell....sexuality has nothing to do with strength or braveness...

First of all, I believe that fat people choose to eat too much food. Their current excuse is they were born that way.
Second, I believe that nature decided your sex, by way of plumbing, as either male or femals. That you were born that way.
Third, only a male + female can have sexual intercourse, which ensures procreation and furtherence of the species.
Fourth, Choosing an alternative to the plumbing you were born with is not "natural".
Fifth, the GLBTH, also claim they were born that way. Genes or Heredity.
Sixth, being born black, or red, or white, is a product of genes. GLBTH is not, as it is a choice, birthed from curiosity, in response to pleasure, or the avoidance of pain.
Seventh, having k-garten sign cards is in fact stimulating their curosity.
Eight, that is recruitment.

edit spelling

[edit on 2-11-2008 by fmcanarney]

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:13 AM by Dock6

reply to post by StevenDye

'A gay child is bullied more than an overweight child, the gay child needs care more often, so surely it is a bigger problem. '

This statement doesn't make any sort of sense, to me

It doesn't make sense

I can't even get my head around what it's supposed to convey

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:21 AM by schism85

I never thought that this would be a problem in kindergarten, after all, how many gay 6 yr olds are there to make fun of? Or students who are openly gay in school, that a 6 year old would be in, in order to pick on them in the first place? It doesn't make sense that there is a problem with gay bashing in kindergarten. After all, when I was in kindergarten, I was too busy learning to count to 100, and memorizing my abcs. The last thing on my mind was intolerance. I didn't see the difference between black, and white, gay, and straight. I just saw other 6 year olds.

edit to clearify

[edit on 2-11-2008 by schism85]

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:29 AM by americandingbat

reply to post by schism85

I think the problem is that, even before kids know what "being gay" is, they are using words like "gay" and "fag" as insults.

Not against gay kids, against kids they are trying to insult. Then, when they start to be old enough to understand sexuality, they have already been indoctrinated with the idea that being "gay" is "bad" "dirty" or whatever.

If kids didn't already use those words, and hadn't already found out that there was something called "gayness" that was "bad" (probably from their parents in most cases), this would be a non-issue.

EDIT:

Here's what they're signing; it's not about gay-bashing per se, it's about using anti-gay words, like I said:

The cards asked signers to be "an ally" and to pledge to "not use anti-LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) language or slurs; intervene, when I feel I can, in situations where others are using anti-LGBT language or harassing other students and actively support safer schools efforts.

[edit on 11/2/08 by americandingbat]

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:33 AM by fmcanarney

My mother, only weighed at most, 105 pounds her entire life.
She worked in a hospital, and there were obese staff there as well.
One obese staff member wore a shirt upon which was written:
"Inside of me is a thin person, struggling to come out."
My mother had her own shirt made in response which read:
"Inside of me is a fat person, struggling to come out."
Gluttony= Obesity, eating too much.
Greed = The recipients of the bailout money.
Lust = GHLBT or whatever.
Wrath = Bullies.
Envy = ??
Pride = face lift, superiority complex.
Sloth = Recipients of redistribution of wealth.

Having k-garten sign pledge cards is begging for special treatment for an incorrect choice.

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:35 AM by americandingbat

reply to post by fmcanarney

What special treatment? What incorrect choice?

The incorrect choice of being called a fag by the schoolyard bully?

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:43 AM by schism85

Americandingbat,

I agree that the terms gay, and fag are being used as insults to non gay kids, and it has become more and more common to call your buddy a fag, and I agree thats a problem.

But why not treat the words, as bad language, and leave it at that. Once you explain to a child that a word is bad, maybe that child won't use it. Why not pound it into there heads that a word is a swear, and leave it at that untill they begin to realize what that swear really means. And then teach them tolerance.

Are they explained to what the word actually means? Or are they just signing a card basically stating that they will no long swear or tolerate anyone who does?

[edit on 2-11-2008 by schism85]

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:44 AM by Heliodromus

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread407385]

What special treatment? What incorrect choice?

The incorrect choice of being called a fag by the schoolyard bully?

EVERYONE has things about themselves that they cant change and get made of for. Why do you people want to start making protected classes of people? Whoa re you to decide who's pain is more important.

None of you have thought this through at all. People that push crap like this are going on emotion alone.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by Heliodromus]

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:48 AM by fmcanarney

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to post by fmcanarney

What special treatment?

"Special attention given GBLTH, via pledge cards, which is not an observable condition, like skin color, disability, obesity."

What incorrect choice?

"Choosing to unnaturally use the plumbing one was born with."

The incorrect choice of being called a fag by the schoolyard bully?

"The bully is making an incorrect choice."

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:55 AM by Acidtastic

reply to post by fmcanarney

yes,we all get called names,but some of those people who start out calling other kids names,20 years later,end up going on to then batter them sensless in a dark alley,because of this inbuilt hate they have for gay people/anyone with a different skin colour/religious belief. Surely it's better to at least try and stop these future prejudiced based attacks,then to just say "oh don't worry about being called a poofter/paki/retard everyone gets called names" That's the lazy,don't give a s# option. And it doesn't actually address anything.

I've been physically attacked,for leaving a gay pub,I had to defend myself (and luckily I can,due to a life time of getting grief) I hate violence,and these scum dragged me down to their level. If this scheme can prevent just one more person from getting a good kicking for NO GOOD REASON then who the hell are you to be "morally outraged" Sure,this moral outrage may well stem from all this political correctness gorn maaaaad society we all live in,but at the end of the day,we all should have the right to live without fear. And it starts in the classroom,so that's where it should be stopped aswell.

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:01 AM by americandingbat

Originally posted by schism85
Are they explained to what the word actually means? Or are they just signing a card basically stating that they will no long swear or tolerate anyone who does?

I'm just going by what is in the article that the OP linked to. I assume that the teacher would tell them what the words mean, and that they're used by people who make fun of those things, and that that is hurtful and intolerant. By "tell them what they mean," I mean they would do so in an age-appropriate way without involving sexual practices.

The pledge is that they will not use anti-GLBT language, that they will if possible intervene when they hear other kids using it, or see someone being picked on (it doesn't say only for GLBT issues), and that they will support "safer classrooms". But the article makes clear that in this instance it's part of a broader curriculum addressing tolerance in general, not just to the GLBT community.

Again, I'm not thrilled with the use of signature cards. And I would have the same objection to their use no matter what organization sponsored them – I can easily imagine there being ones sponsored by a religious institution against discrimination on religious grounds. The problem I have is that I don't know how well a five-year-old can gauge what a signature means, and in this case they did not have the parents' permission to get the kid's signature.

I think this was ill-advised on the part of the teacher, but I applaud her efforts to teach the kids about difference (please folks, read the article – it's all difference, not just homosexuality and gender issues), and I believe that it can be done in a thoroughly age-appropriate way.

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:05 AM by schism85

reply to post by Acidtastic

That is terrible to hear that happened to you, just for leaving a pub. I agree that gays do have it bad, alot of normal, sane people are homophobic for absolutely no reason other than brainwash. I have a gay friend, and I don't see a difference between me and him, we are human beings, and quite frankly he is cooler than alot of straight people I know. Sexual prefrences shouldn't make a difference in this world. But for some, insane reason it does.

I just don't totally agree with the cards presented to these children. I agree that tolerance should be taught, and taught early, but if these kids are being taught about sexuality at all at the age of 6 Iam going to disagree with it. Sexuality has no buissness in kindergarten imo.

But if they are just being taught that using these words, just like any other hateful slurs are wrong, than I see no problem with it, because some children unfortunately are exposed to these slurs, and repeat them without knowing what they truly mean, and do grow up to an adult using these words, and with hatred for no reason.

I just know that if I had kids, I wouldn't want them to be taught about any kind of sexuality at the age of 5 or 6.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by schism85]

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:09 AM by Dock6

reply to post by Acidtastic

Do you have children ?

If not, how could you understand how parents feel about having adults' sexual orientation forced to the attention of their four and five year olds ?

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:09 AM by schism85

reply to post by americandingbat

I agree with you. Why the signatures? I know it isn't a contract or anything, but a teacher should know better than to make kids sign something without their guardians knowledge or consent.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by schism85]

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:10 AM by Acidtastic

reply to post by Dock6

no,I'm a bender.

I see your irrational parental fear,and raise you actual bodily harm

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:11 AM by fmcanarney

Originally posted by Acidtastic
reply to post by fmcanarney

yes,we all get called names,but some of those people who start out calling other kids names,20 years later,end up going on to then batter them sensless in a dark alley,because of this inbuilt hate they have for gay people/anyone with a different skin colour/religious belief. Surely it's better to at least try and stop these future prejudiced based attacks,then to just say "oh don't worry about being called a poofter/paki/retard everyone gets called names" That's the lazy,don't give a s# option. And it doesn't actually address anything.

I've been physically attacked,for leaving a gay pub,I had to defend myself (and luckily I can,due to a life time of getting grief) I hate violence,and these scum dragged me down to their level. If this scheme can prevent just one more person from getting a good kicking for NO GOOD REASON then who the hell are you to be "morally outraged" Sure,this moral outrage may well stem from all this political correctness gorn maaaaad society we all live in,but at the end of the day,we all should have the right to live without fear. And it starts in the classroom,so that's where it should be stopped aswell.

So we are preventing future hate crimes?
In having five and six year olds sign pledge cards?
The GLBTH pledge cards, instill curiosity at an age inappropriate level, about a subject that is appropriate for older aged childre.

Emotional based reasoning is not age appropriate for an adult.
Pain, hurt feelings, ashamed, guilt, hate, fear, afraid, sad, are emotion based items which cloud and color reasoning.
You cannot look at a five year old and determine they are HGBLT.
You can look at a five year old and tell they are overweight, black, female, disabled.
So highlighting, via pledge cards, is nothing more than adults who are reasoning with their emotions. They might have resentments themselves from childhood about being called a name. Since they have not resolved the pain hurt from the past, they act it out as an adult. They have unspoken hurt and sadness, and instead of resolving it, they use it to prevent that hurt or pain from ever getting on someone else.
Emotional reasoning.

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:13 AM by Dock6

reply to post by Acidtastic

You haven't answered my question

Your concern is for the welbeing of gays

Where's your concern for the welbeing of minors whose right to a normal childhood is being denied them ?

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:19 AM by Acidtastic

Originally posted by Dock6
reply to post by Acidtastic

You haven't answered my question

Your concern is for the welbeing of gays

Where's your concern for the welbeing of minors whose right to a normal childhood is being denied them ?

how the hell is telling them that everyone is equal,denying them a normal childhood? The fear you have,is irrational,and probably built from hate. What you got against poofters then?

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:20 AM by americandingbat

Originally posted by fmcanarney

So we are preventing future hate crimes?
In having five and six year olds sign pledge cards?
The GLBTH pledge cards, instill curiosity at an age inappropriate level, about a subject that is appropriate for older aged childre.

Instill curiosity about what? Do you think children don't notice that adults have a tendency to come in twos? Or, as someone else posted, notice and become curious when they see two men in a mall dressed as women? What's wrong with children being curious anyway? I wish most people, children and adults, were more curious about things.

It's not about penises. It's about being tolerant of difference, and about teaching children that words that are used to denigrate groups of people are not acceptable language. It's about teaching kids that they don't have to be afraid of the two men who live together down the block, and that they shouldn't be mean to them because they choose to live together. That when people pick on other people for a choice like that, the picking-on is wrong, whatever you feel about the choice.

Emotional based reasoning is not age appropriate for an adult.
Pain, hurt feelings, ashamed, guilt, hate, fear, afraid, sad, are emotion based items which cloud and color reasoning.

I'm not even sure I agree with this idea, but I would point out that there is a lot of fear in your posts.

You cannot look at a five year old and determine they are HGBLT.
You can look at a five year old and tell they are overweight, black, female, disabled.

I'm not seeing the point here. Why does that make it okay for kids to say nasty things about gays?

reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 10:21 AM by schism85

reply to post by Dock6

I don't think we can be sure that they are being explained to what the word fag actually means. At least I hope not. Maybe they are just telling them that the word is bad, and is intolerant to a group of people, just like calling someone fat, or retarded.

I would like to know, what do you think the teacher is actually telling these kids?

[edit on 2-11-2008 by schism85]