School Clams Up on 'Gay' Pledge Cards Given to Kindergartners, page 2
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reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:22 AM by Acidtastic
Originally posted by Marcus Calpurnius
Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius


You obviously have some serious issues with homosexuals and their "special treatment". From the sound of your replies, I would think that this pledge is in place because of how people like you raise their kids.


Oh here we go, if you don't agree with me you must be a racist or bigot! Somehow treating everyone equally has become a bad thing. You cant just teach your kids to treat all people the same, no you have to also teach them that certain people are better than others.

People like yourself are unable to grasp concepts like equal treatment and treating people like you want to be treated. Instead, you latch on to feel good concepts like protecting certain segments of society and putting greater penalties on their feelings, than other's. Thats fine, because hey, it makes you feel good.

In the end though, your child is going to see that special attention is given to this group, but not this other. Thats builds resentments that continue to cycle of name calling and hatred. I hope someday people like you realize that, but right now you're too busy making yourself feel good.


[edit on 2-11-2008 by Marcus Calpurnius]
hang on a minute,you're both saying the same thing (in this post) That it's about treating people equally. So why are you in dissagreement?


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:26 AM by Marcus Calpurnius
Originally posted by StevenDye


And Marcus Calpurnius, are you ignoring my posts all together, because you are sticking to your guns that only different sexualties are having things like this done, and I would happily bet that is not the truth. But it is not news worthy to say a class has signed a piece of paper to say they wont bully someone.


Are you telling me that schools make kids sign waivers stating they wont call people:

Fags, gay, queer, negro, spic, redneck, slope, zipper head, wetback, fat, stupid, slow, fire crotch, retard, tar baby, hillbilly, kike, kuffar, rag head or camel jockey?

I ask because if their not, than you're creating classes of protected people. While others have to simply endure the facts of life unprotected. Hence, creating resentment in people towards the "protected classes". Thus, repeating the cycle all over again.


reply to post by Acidtastic


hang on a minute,you're both saying the same thing (in this post) That it's about treating people equally. So why are you in dissagreement?


Hes talking about creating separate groups of protected people. I'm saying that all people endure hatred and name calling in life and so kids should be taught to treat people how they want to be treated. When you do stuff like this wavier, you are creating resentment. Maybe not at the kindergarten age (which is why this is stupid to begin with), but as they get older and start to see the inherent inequality in this PC bull crap.



[edit on 2-11-2008 by Marcus Calpurnius]


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:27 AM by StevenDye
reply to post by fmcanarney


Okay then...we wont teach people not to hat different sexualities.

But to be fair we also wont teach people not to bully for any other reason, lets see how that works because I'm sure you would complain if your child was beaten up that the school should have taught them it was wrong...

Edit to reply to Marcus Calpurnius

No, when i was at school different sexualities wern't mentioned...I am saying there is almost always some sort of from (real or otherwise) that children sign saying they will not make fun of anyone for any reason... though that is not considered news worthy.

Different sexualities are faced on slightly more as they generally have more problems than the redheads or overweight people. The same goes for racism, it is focussed upon more because it needs to be.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by StevenDye]


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:30 AM by mopusvindictus
reply to post by StevenDye


That's the whole point, The use of the word isn't at all related to actual sexuality when your a kid... even into adulthood... which is maybe sad, but true...

Gay to a 10 year old is synonymous...with wimp or being like a girl

and that would be true for some actual gay men but certainly not all

and

That's never going to change

In the end that's the big hetero guy issue any way,.... Fear of being labeled a wimp because "some" Gay men are feminine

In some cultures the Guy that Gives it... isn't even considered Gay

so the derogatory use of the word, has a certain association

It's NOT the sex act straight guys trip on, it's not being Manly or being associated as non Manly

and that's what kids target and adults too when they are morons

But that, the kid who... Reads allot will be called gay or the kid who is a little too pretty... isn't going to go away, maybe, maybe they will change the word around, but still use something

and even then... I would guess, introducing the subject, will make that type of Boy, latch on to the word because it's been given power

I just don't think it will work



and , don't get me wrong I was an Uber Brain as a kid... and I got targeted a couple of different years for picking on,

Not condoning it as okay

Just don't see it going away

Karate lessons, that made it go away


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:30 AM by Marcus Calpurnius
Originally posted by StevenDye
reply to post by fmcanarney


But to be fair we also wont teach people not to bully for any other reason, lets see how that works because I'm sure you would complain if your child was beaten up that the school should have taught them it was wrong...


That will happen anyway. Its a fact of life that has a purpose in shaping and molding a person's character. If you're taught "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me", than you'll be stronger for it. If you're taught that you're a victim who should be in a protected class, than you will always use your differences as a crutch. Without ever realizing that ALL OF US are different and endure the same thing.

Different sexualities are faced on slightly more as they generally have more problems than the redheads or overweight people. The same goes for racism, it is focussed upon more because it needs to be.


LOL, says who? You see the problem with your line of thinking? Suddenly now you're ranking the pain felt by a person when they are called a name. You are putting human beings on a rank scale of who's pain is more important. How can you not see the inherit danger in that?

Not that there is any evidence to back up your claim.



[edit on 2-11-2008 by Marcus Calpurnius]


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:34 AM by StevenDye
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius


No, the pain is the same...BUT...generally a person of a different sexuality will receive this 'pain' more often.

If two people get shot, they feel the same pain... they both need care. If one is shot as soon as he leaves the hospital he feels the same pain as the first time, but he needs more care because it has happened again.

As random as that sounds it does make sense.


And mopusvindictus, I see what you mean now. And unforunately it is true, however I will add that it is also dependant on where you live.

I am 16, I don't enjoy sports and I've never had a girlfriend, now if people think I am gay (Which i am not) then they have never said it to me, or any of my friends.


[edit on 2-11-2008 by StevenDye]


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:37 AM by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wisefoolishness



Just ask the Chinese, the most impressionable a person is for brainwashing is the age of 6.


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:39 AM by Marcus Calpurnius
Originally posted by StevenDye
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius


No, the pain is the same...BUT...generally a person of a different sexuality will receive this 'pain' more often.


Says who? Where are you getting this? What proof do you have?

As random as that sounds it does make sense.


To me, you're just desperately trying to rationalize your completely misguided feelings on this. You gotta find some way to explain why you think one group of people are better than another group. Why this group A, needs to be set aside as protected, while this group here is deemed "common" and has to live life without those protections. In fact, compared to that protect person, you are now a second class citizen.

If you attack him, you could be charged with harsher penalties, than if he were to attack you.


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:43 AM by StevenDye
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius


I have the proof of being at school...I see what is going on.

I see the gay students get teased an awful lot more than the overweight people. More than the redheads, more than the black students.

To say they feel a different amount of emotional pain is just as much of a guess as it is to say they feel the same, however since both are normal people I presume they both get very hurt when they are teased.

All forms of bullying are addressed at school, but some forms do need to receive special attention yes... Lets go back a few decades, racism was singled out amongst all other types of bullying, it was set aside and received 'special treatment'. And today you could soon have a black president. Setting forms of bullying aside does not make things worse, it highlights that some forms of bullying are worse than others.



reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:47 AM by fmcanarney
I am 54 years old.
I studied and read a lot in grade school.
I went to a Catholic school.
I wore boots, not tennis shoes.
I wore patched, hand me down clothes.
I was called queer for good grades and reading a lot.
I was called pussy for not fighting.
I was called Catlicker for going to Catholic school.
I was called clodhopper for the boots.
I was called patches and poor boy for the clothes.
I am of the philosophy that sticks and stones will break my bones...
I think GLBT dont want to be called names, or hear others being called these names because it forces them to look at their own ashamed and guilt issues they are not addressing.
I think kids will call each other names naturally.
I have had children bullied as she was riding the bus home.
I called and complained to the bus driver, nothing changed.
I called and talked to teachers and school principals, nothing changed.
I got the name of the bully from my daughter and called her dad.
I told him if it happened again I would be over at his houes the same day and would call him out into the front yard and stomp his ass.
I never had to deal with the bullying again.
GLBT do not have the testosterone level sufficient to accomplish the last action that I described.
So they have to beg (pledge card) five year olds to stop hurting their feelings and damaging their already low self esteem.
Go figure. It is a disguised recruitment campaign, nothing more than that.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by fmcanarney]


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:52 AM by StevenDye
reply to post by fmcanarney


They cannot go and beat someone up themselves... I have not heard a more ignorant statement in my entire life. It was some of the biggest bullys who turned out to be gay at my school, they wern't teased. Sure, the weaker ones were, but there were weaker straight people aswell....sexuality has nothing to do with strength or braveness...


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 07:58 AM by Marcus Calpurnius
reply to post by StevenDye


All forms of bullying are addressed at school, but some forms do need to receive special attention yes... Lets go back a few decades, racism was singled out amongst all other types of bullying, it was set aside and received 'special treatment'. And today you could soon have a black president. Setting forms of bullying aside does not make things worse, it highlights that some forms of bullying are worse than others.


You just don't get it and I'm guessing it has to do with your youth. I was the same way as a young lad and it wasn't till I grew up a bit, that I finally saw the error of my ways.

You cannot divide people in to special protected groups. Thats how we got slavery and racism in this country and now, its all happening again. As a 16 year old, you simply haven't lived enough to understand what I'm trying to explain to you.


[edit on 2-11-2008 by Marcus Calpurnius]


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 08:59 AM by americandingbat
Originally posted by mopusvindictus
How about

It could be nice like when I was a kid and you got to be a child and didn't have any involvement with SEX?

I used to cringe and turn my head when Mr Brady Kissed Mrs Brady because it was yucky...

Good grief...

Lets explain Anal sex to 5 year olds.... why? to Traumatize them?

THEY DO WHAT!!!!


Why why why why why why why do people always act like you have to describe the details of sexual actions to address anything related to homosexuality?

Why?

Why would you tell a class of 5-year-olds about anal sex? Or oral sex? Or vaginal sex?

There are plenty of ways to address intimacy between two consenting adults to children, without going into details about what gets inserted where.

As I remember childhood, by the time we were six or seven words like "gay" and "fag" were being thrown around as insults, even though we didn't know anything about "the birds and the bees". That's what this teacher is trying to stop. And from the article. it sounds like she's working on an entire segment about calling names, and prejudices, and ostracization.

I imagine she will also cover such popular childhood insults as "carrottop" "foureyes" "wimp" and "dummy", as well as perhaps more sociologically significant terms like "retard" "spic" "towelhead" or "cracker".

But the Redhead Association probably was out of signature cards that day.

Seriously, I have some issues with the idea of the "pledge card" in general. But I'm not a parent, or an expert in childhood education, and I do remember that kind of ritual as being a fun part of the classroom experience and making me feel like I was doing something important. So maybe it's okay.

I think it's great that she's addressing why it's not okay to call each other names, even though the kids will do so regardless. It's the role of a teacher at that age to set boundaries – one of those boundaries should be that a person's preference in partner is not something to be used as an insult to others.

And again, to go back to my first point, no one is talking to these kids about anal intercourse. Homosexuality is not just about the sex act, any more than heterosexuality is.

And homosexuals do not want children exposed to sex any more than heterosexuals do.

[edit on 11/2/08 by americandingbat]


reply posted on 2-11-2008 @ 09:04 AM by StevenDye
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius


I do get it, being 16 means I get it more than you in my opinion. I see it happening firs hand, and I see it be stopped using methods very similar to this. Overweight people have always been a target, then one week we did a lesson on people being overweight...how it was becoming more common, and how in certain cases it can't be helped. The amount of reported cases of bullying because of weight in the school dropped after that.

It dropped because that cause was singled out and explained.


Racism stopped (mostly) because black people stood up for themselves and singled themselves out. They singled out their cause and it worked.



And to fmcanarney it is relevant. I am not comparing the pain, I am making a comparisson for the amount of attention. This man was shot twice in the same time the other man was shot he needs more care.

A gay child is bullied more than an overweight child, the gay child needs care more often, so surely it is a bigger problem.
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