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School Clams Up on 'Gay' Pledge Cards Given to Kindergartners

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posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:15 AM
Common now, do you really think kindergarten students are going to understand their signing a contract on sexuality when they don't even know how they're own bodies work yet or let alone what a contract even is... what a waste of paper... kids are kids... forcing them to sign things they don't even understand isn't going to deal with issues like that, they need to be addressed when they come up, with solid examples, not statements on paper...

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:21 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, I have been in to many of these discussions to count.

I understand where the teacher was coming from. The word "gay" is used as a derogatory comment to much in our society and used way to freely. Children hear their parents using these words and then the kids repeat it, having no clue what they are saying. In fact I heard someone use it on TV last night "Thats Gay." I just made a sour face and lost a little respect for the person who spoke it.

On another note, the teacher did a poor job of communicating this properly to kids. Something much simpler that applies to hateful language in general would of worked.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Helmkat

In fact I heard someone use it on TV last night "Thats Gay." I just made a sour face and lost a little respect for the person who spoke it.

Are you speaking of Nelson Muntz?? I heard it too, and thought of this thread. I wouldn't lose respect for Nelson, or the creators of the Simpsons. They only recognize this language as being used by everyone, even gays themselves, to describe something that they dislike. When gay people refer to something as being gay, its okay, but if someone else does it, its homophobic. Complete double standard imo.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by schism85]

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:41 AM
If i send my child to school and come's how with anything beside Homework.
I will drag a teacher out and beat his arse .
It's the American way lol they think parent don;t have the right to teach there kids anything..even moral's?
to try to beat this into little kid's.

Yes i beg you parent drag that teacher that gave those to your kid's..
Drag the teacher out and give him or her a beat down....

They are trying to over power your rights as a parent..

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:46 AM
I think that teaching children from Kindergarten that people are different in many ways and that they are all just as human is a fabulous idea. Sexuality is just one way that people are different, but it seems to be the one that gets a whole bunch of attention, both positive and negative.

Having a Transgender in my own extended family, I have seen first hand just how unaccepting the rest of humanity can be.

I am not sure where this originated from, my transgender family member has it on his blog, but it says much...

On Saturday, Sanesha Stewart, a transwoman of color living in the Bronx, was murdered in her own apartment. She was 25 years old. Her accused killer, Steve McMillan, had known her for months, yet when he was arrested, he claimed to have been enraged to find out that she was what the media coverage called not really a woman. He stabbed her over and over again in the chest and throat. She tried to fight him off; there were defensive wounds found on her hands.

On Tuesday, eighth-grader Lawrence King was in a classroom in Oxnard, Calif. He was openly gay, and often came to school in gender-bending clothing, makeup, jewelry and shoes. According to another student, it was freaking the guys out. One of them shot Lawrence in the head. He was declared brain-dead on Wednesday.

It is easy to look at cases like this and think, how tragic. How random. How senseless.

But then, you forget how easy it is to kill a transgender person.

You forget that all across this nation, faith leaders of all stripes, men and women who claim to speak for God Himself, call us sinners, call us abominations, call us evil.

You forget that at best the media depicts us as something to be pitied, something for which our families must be strong and overcome. At worst, they depict us as abnormal, exploiting our bodies for ratings, exploiting the publics fear of us for shock value.

You forget that on a good day, law enforcement agents are neglectful of us, and that far more frequently they join in our harassment. You forget the transwomen of color who are rounded up on suspicions of prostitution. You forget the beatings that go uninvestigated. You forget the molestation and rape we face when we are arrested.

You forget the medical establishment that drains our wallets for the therapy and hormones and surgeries they tell us we need. You forget the way we are then refused treatment when we are dying, dying of treatable diseases, dying of easily patched wounds.

You forget that, by the law of the land, it is legal in the majority of states to deny us employment, to deny us service, to deny us housing.

You forget the shelters and the rape crisis centers that will not allow us through their doors.

You forget that many of us do not even have family to turn to when we are at our most desperate.

You forget that the leaders of our own community have told us that it is not time for us to have rights, that it is not pragmatic for us to be considered worthy of the same respect as other human beings.

You forget that in our own circles, it is considered a negative thing to be too flamboyant. You forget the way our pride parades have been derided by our own community. You forget the scorn heaped upon drag queens by other gay men. You forget the fear to be seen in public with a friend who is considered too open, too queer.

You forget the way it seeps into the minds of transgender people, too. You forget the way a transsexual will shout that she is not a crossdresser, as if there were something wrong with that. You forget the catty names we call each other if we don?t pass?

You forget how many of us take our own lives every year.

You forget because the noise is always there, a constant drone in the background. Every newspaper piece that calls a transwoman he instead of she. Every talk show host who spends an hour talking about our genitals. Every childish taunt about looking like a tranny. Every transperson who talks about themselves as true transsexuals. Every activist and politician who tells us now is not the time.

You forget too, how easy it is to kill a person of color, with myths about gangstas and lies about immigrants. You forget how easy it is to kill a person living in poverty, cutting off her welfare because she is supposedly being paid to breed. You forget how easy it is to kill a sex worker, with sex-shaming language, slinging about slurs like hooker and whore.

You forget the message hidden inside every single one of those statements.

You are less than I am. You are not worthy of the rights and respect that I am worthy of.

You are not human.

It is very easy to kill something that you do not see as human.

It is very easy to kill a transperson.

If teaching children at the youngest age possible that even people who are different than the "norm" are just as human, then let them be taught, and stop all the hate.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:23 AM
Yeah, I have a huge problem with it. The teacher is intruding into ground that is and should be covered only by the parent(s). First of all, I'll teach my child about what's right and wrong, thank you very much. If your job is to teach my child math then I expect you to teach them math and keep your personal opinions and your personal crusades to yourself and not involve my little one. Crossing that line should be grounds for dismissal on the part of the teacher.

Another concern: the point isn't that this is all fine and good for the gay/lesbian community, the point is if you allow this one instance, then where does it stop? Next you will have a teacher passing out cards for signatures asking kids not to badmouth Muslim religions. Or religion at all. Then it will be lack of religion. Then it will be certain groups of the population like short people or fat people.

And while this all seems well and good, the point is you start policing what children say and ultimately think. And if that doesn't get your attention then start thinking about the 'Thought Police', via Orwell's novel "1984".

[edit on 3-11-2008 by sos37]

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:33 AM

Originally posted by skeptic1
I agree with the premise. Some may think that kindergarten is too early and that the kids are too young, but I see nothing wrong with this.

Letting the children know that it is not right to ridicule others is a good matter who the "others" are.


posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:42 AM
reply to post by Badge01

I'll consider that thought. But you have to admit that some of these people are merely performing "street theater" to make people uncomfortable, for the sake of whatever personal agenda they are committed to. I won't condemn them, but one has to admit that in a normal social situation, in a mall in public, that people should at least attempt to condone themselves on the account of neighborly peace. The fact that I used the term opprobrious meant that I even held those silly men in equal regard as I hold myself, as part of real society. I didn't denounce them, or excoriate them as you may have suggested... It would be nice if everyone could just get along, but I don't see that happening where people can't respect the peace of mind of all their neighbors. Uhm... you could argue that those two men's peace of mind were satisfied acting the way they did, but because the majority can't possibly appreciate their acts, it makes sense to appease that majority. It's social convention. No one wants to be told how to conduct themselves, but they'll do it anyway, all for this absurd notion of the collective peace of mind of everyone in their proximity. If you submit yourself occasionally to these public social settings, you will be awarded your own respect when the time comes.

reply to post by Jezus

This is highly arguable. Don't be so certain, lest you convey ignorance. It does nothing to further your cause.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by cognoscente]

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 11:04 AM
reply to post by redhatty
It does indeed say much.

Two examples were given in that excerpt. In both, a person (a human being, with as much right to live peacefully as anyone else) was murdered. In both cases, the murder was senseless, as it accomplished nothing profitable for the murderer. In both cases, the victim lost their life, but in a sense, so did the murderer.

There are two reasons for such tragedies: fear and hate. These motives are related, but separate; what combats one directly will have little or no effect on the other. It does no good to combat hate while allowing fear to run rampant, and no good to combat fear while hate is allowed to flourish. If the aim is to stop senseless tragedies caused by these two powerful emotions, then the aim of any attempt must be to either thwart both (already shown to be ineffective), or to identify the one that is to be addressed.

Was the trans-woman stabbed out of fear, or out of hate? One might say hate, since she was obviously incapable of harming a stronger male. Was the gay student shot over fear or hate? Again, what possible motive of fear could his shooter have experienced? These conclusions will no doubt appear sound at first glance, but let's look a little deeper...

Why would anyone treat a gay person differently than a straight person? Hate carries no benefit to the hater, save peer acceptance. And even if peer acceptance is cited as the issue, hate is not an action; it is an emotion. Hateful actions can exist and be witnessed, but hate itself is much harder to see and identify. It is also much more rare, normally only expressing itself as a result of fear.

In our society, the majority of people are not gay. As such, males tend to be more aggressive and larger than females. This has been linked to a supply of the hormone testosterone. Females have a more gentle and nurturing spirit, as well as more stamina and intelligence, and a stronger protective instinct than the average male. This has been linked to a supply of the hormone estrogen. We all, regardless of gender, have this thing called the ego, a desire to be competitive and to be liked by others. This is due to no hormone, but to the development of the human brain itself. Our desire to be social and competitive is hard-wired in.

As such, fathers tend to want boys to be 'manly', as it would appear to them to reflect on their own manliness. Women want their girls to be feminine, dainty even, and such is encouraged. We all do it, even me. But when that child who is male, but acts feminine, or who is female but acts masculine appears, there is a natural desire to push them into the mold we have decreed for them.

Such actions in the home transfer into the schools, beginning with that first day of kindergarten. A lifetime, albeit a short one, of learning from the parents is carried with each child into the classroom. As such, kindergarten is less about learning facts and figures than it is about learning social skills, to allow the children a year to get this necessary introductory learning out of the way before the real schooling starts.

So the child, even at the tender age of 5, is far from a blank slate. But they are impressionable. As they begin to know other children, they will always, no matter what we do, come across those who are different from them in some way. We are not clones; we are individuals. These changes can be skin color, attitudes toward religion, aggressiveness, intelligence, beauty, or a host of other differences. The very purpose of kindergarten is to allow us to learn about these differences in others around us.

But learning social skills is not a classroom subject. It cannot be written in a book and studied to be given a written test on later. It is subjective to each individual. I should know; I have never mastered this subject, despite many years of trying. So my final solution is a bit different than most: I withdraw from society as much as possible. I do not attend parties, and rarely attend reunions. I prefer to be alone with my thoughts, while others usually prefer to be in a group. That is not a bemoaning of my situation (as I am generally happy with it), but rather an explanation of where these thoughts are coming from... one who watches from the outside looking in.

To a child now immersed in school, this pledge is another test. It concerns writing a correct answer (their name) on a test paper (the pledge). And like most tests at such an early age, once it is 'passed' (the pledge is signed), the child forgets about it in favor of learning new things. But what has been accomplished? Has the child learned anything about social interaction with those who are different than them? Perhaps, especially if that child is a bit insecure about something besides homosexuality (which is almost a certainty at this age) and sees themselves now as being rejected from some exclusive 'homosexual' club.

Now, let us fast-forward a few years to that same child. Now puberty is approaching. Girls are filling out a semi-womanly form, and the boys' plumbing is beginning to operate. Hormones are beginning to trickle into the blood stream. Boys and girls tend to start to segregate themselves as they have more in common with their own gender and sexual thoughts are still fleeting and unsure. The boys are getting stronger and are encouraged to play sports to prove their 'manliness', while girls are starting to form tight-knit social groups. The 'yucky parts' that have been being talked about in hushed whispers and giggles until now are starting to look like fun!

Let us look now at one boy, whose tendencies, for whatever reason, run to the more homosexual desires. He is somewhat feminine, and no longer one of the boys as his physical mannerisms and strength have not developed as masculinely as the other boys. And in his mind, the thoughts of pleasure center not around the female form, but around the male form. He is homosexual - gay - and the reasons in this discussion are not important.

Now he begins to be shunned by his classmates. The girls don't want him around, because they see a boy. The boys don't like him because he is weak. And should his true feeling of a sexual nature become known during this time of confusion and discovery, there is another difference to make him an outcast.

The traditional human reaction to being an outcast is to be flamboyant about it, a'la defiance. This reaction is normally held in check by the social stigma itself. In other words, a gay boy would try to be 'flaming' if nothing else worked to produce social acceptance, but too much 'flaming' would lead to more taunts and social denial, forcing him to minimize any flamboyancy. But we have now created a situation, through continual teaching of ' blanket acceptance' that restricts these taunts. Thus the normal controls of society have been interrupted and among the straight boys, a feeling of disgust and anger begins to build. They have to be careful to not be seen as weak or slow, yet this guy is receiving, in their mind, a free ride where social acceptance is concerned. The full consequences of his situation are, indeed, far from easy, but the other boys do not see this. The only way for them to get that free ride is to deny everything inside themselves and act in a way that is against their own sexuality. Confusion breeds resentment; resentment breeds hate.

Hate. It is not an action. It therefore is not and cannot be a crime. It is an emotion. The only way to stop it is to allow it to work itself out. Should that same boy have been left subject to the taunting, he would have had a rough row to hoe (to use my local vernacular) throughout school. But the taunts would be short-lived, and he would have found some measure of acceptance. Instead, he is now looking at a lifetime of social interaction with others that breeds hate and compounds anger. And as time goes on, and the hatred from older generations gets firmly entrenched into the minds of the public, that anger gives way to something else: fear. Fear that somehow these people who are really no less 'different' than anyone else, just in a unique way, are getting more protection than they are. And fear that they will somehow be forced into not only accepting this difference but embracing it.

Fear is almost never logical or reasonable. It is just the opposite. But like hate, it is impossible to legislate against, and even harder to stop once it has become entrenched in one's psyche. The man who stabbed the trans-woman was not acting out of hate, but out of fear... fear that he was being drawn into this alternate lifestyle that he despised but authorities over him appeared to be pressing on him. The student who shot the gay boy was not acting out of hate, but out of an irrational fear that this action of being effeminate was placing him into a situation where he could not succeed because of the bias toward the gay boy.

Yes, we should try and restrain children from bullying tactics, but we also have to keep the concepts of fairness and equity firmly in mind as we do so. This pledge was not about bullying or discrimination; it was openly and overtly biased in favor of one particular group, and a group that the children can not even understand as of yet. You cannot make a level playing field by tilting it on it's side. Either cover all possible differences, or none at all. Or, we could always take the harder road of addressing problems on an individual basis... nah, that would be too much work.


posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 11:14 AM
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius

A neutral opinion from someone with ties to the GLBT community: Many of the people in the movement resent the straight "majority," and not always without reason. They also want to push their agenda, which is gay-first, for attention and money. Fact: many GLBT people are in fact mentally ill which has nothing to do with their orientation, and enjoy flaunting it. It usually starts with childhood abuse in familes or from schoolmates over their preferences. I had three very wonderful gay friends growing up who've spent their lives dealing with being sent to psychiatrists or the mental ward to "turn them straight." None of them had these problems when we were younger. Negative attention is as addictive as any drug and is just as hard to cure.

Gay-bashing, like racism, is a very serious problem in this country and I'm going to bet you it is severely underreported. Hate is a learned response, not innate. Calling someone a "fag" or "queer" reinforces the idea that they are less of a person or someone to be singled out, making it that much easier to hurt them, same as racism. I don't approve of any political agenda being introduced in kindergarten but I have to say that it is an issue that should be addressed. Gay kids still get beat up all the time around here in school and no one cares. Once you learn to target one group, it makes it that much easier to hate others.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:23 PM
wow, lets start early! lets get all the kids to sign things and trick them to the point that we can expel them if they ever "re-nig" on the contract.


people wonder how middle schoolers get pregnant...

its garbage like this.....

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius

You can't possibly be a parent. I don't care if it is gays or dorks or whatever group you want, I DON'T WANT MY CHILD DEALING WITH HATRED in Kindergarten. Is that such a radical concept for you? If my kid comes home asking me what a "fag" is, I am going to have some serious questions about what is going on at that kindergarten.

Parents should raise their kids to not say the words that these people are pledging to avoid. The pledge shouldn't exist in the first place because parents should be doing their job.

You obviously have some serious issues with homosexuals and their "special treatment". From the sound of your replies, I would think that this pledge is in place because of how people like you raise their kids.

What you are missing is that PARENTS NOT SCHOOLS should be teaching morality and values! If we let the schools teach values and morals what do we use as a guideline? Would you like it if the school taught your children a different set of morals and values than you have? How can you be a role model to your kids when they are being taught to live 180 degrees from you.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:48 PM

Originally posted by StevenDye
reply to post by Marcus Calpurnius

A gay child is bullied more than an overweight child, the gay child needs care more often, so surely it is a bigger problem.

You can live out your life and people do not have to know that you are gay. It is hard to hide the fact that you are fat, different race or even sometimes what religion you are. If you make yourself a target to people then they will take shots at you.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:48 PM
The teachers should have the needs and interests of each INDIVIDUAL CHILD in mind. Brainwashing little kids into accepting homosexuality feeds the needs of PC-types like the teachers, and people in society who have too much time on their hands. The child will not benefit. Someone needs to raise some hell with this teacher.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:57 PM
Hi all, I've been an ATS reader for some time but this is my first post. I feel a story from my own college experience is relevant here..

Once upon a time my freshman year at college, I wore a self-made button out one night to various parties. Trust me, I have matured and grown much since then, but still I find this experience fascinating. The button was similar to a "No-Smoking" symbol, except instead of "Smoking" it read "Ugly Chicks" inside the usual red crossed circle. I found there were 3 typical reactions to this button:

1. Ugly girls stayed away from me, which, I suppose, was the goal of wearing the button in the first place.

2. Attractive, Beautiful girls found the button hilarious. They were talking to me all night long.

3. Those girls that could be seen as "in between somewhere" or plain were the ones who gave me grief. Frequent reactions to seeing the button were, "Who the hell do you think you are?!", "F^*# off A$$hole" and the like...

However, the truly interesting part was engaging this 3rd class of girls in conversation, as I found through the reactions of the other 2 groups, that the button really had nothing to do with me and how I felt at all. Rather, it forced the girls to judge themselves. Those that thought that I might think they were less than stunning tending, while obviously not being outright ugly, reacted by far the strongest. When I would talk with them however, they would realize that I, in fact, didn't really care what they looked like, and also that they had essentially reacted negatively to the button because they felt that I "might" think they were ugly.

The point of my story is that those who are namecallers, judgers, bullies, etc... reveal much more about their own character through their actions and words than they demonstrate the "inferiority" or "weirdness" of those they bully.

When someone calls you a name, only YOU can make that word have meaning.

We should teach children to respect others, but forcing someone to act a certain way through "pacts" or "pledges" is only another form of Authoritarianism. Adults have been trying to control kids for ages and where has it gotten us? The gameboard is to this day, essentially the same as it always has been. There will always be bullys. There will always be those who are picked on. The fact is that ALL children feel alienated at some point growing up, and some channel that into aggression towards other and some let others aggression diminish their own feeling of self-worth.

Children will all mature at different rates, and we should allow them to do so. If there is one thing that is constant with adolencense, it is this: Children are most tempted by that which they are told not to do. As such, perhaps we should merely teach our children that those who insult others merely debase themselves.

Personally I find the current trend of "hate-crime" legislation to be an abomination. It is, essentially, the precursor of "thought-crime". A criminal act should be judged by the act alone and nothing else. For instance, does it matter to the policeman WHY I was doing 50mph over the limit? Not likely.

Love thyself as thy neighbor, and neighbor as thyself.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:21 PM
reply to post by NinjaCat542
You're going to go far around here NinjaCat. First post and first star... from me.

The hurt that comes form words is in our own mind. If you refuse to giva a word the authority over you to hurt you, it cannot do so. And the reason people generally give a word such power is that they are insecure about themselves from the start.

I would say if you are not happy, if you must be defensive about a word, then perhaps you should be looking inward for the solution, not outward.

If you are truly happy with who you are, then why would it even matter?


posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:51 PM
I doubt bullying can be handled in a meaningfull way in school.

When I was a kid, I was bullied a lot, on a dayly basis, because of physical differences (big feet) and because I was a 'nerd'.

One time a female teacher tried to end it by calling me out in class to point out the ones who bullied me.. I couldn't..

In a classroom, there's something akin to the Omerta in the Mafia. 'squealing' on classmembers is 'not done', and if you do, the bullying you got subjected to earlier would pale with what was in store.

After this incident, the bullying magically seized. Somehow, not telling on them earned me the right to live without psychological terror. The teacher and I never came on good terms again though (god rest her soul)

People are social animals, true, and exactly this treat makes us want to have someone we can focus against and unite against, and this starts at the most tender of ages. But at that tender age, sexuality is not the main divisive factor, unless it gets made an issue by someone who should know better.

These days, I'm about 6 foot 10, so nobody makes fun of me in my face, or it is in a way that does no mental harm. kidding around, you know.. and yet, the scars one suffers as a toddler up till puberty get carried along for life.

Which made me do basically what you did, Redneck.. I, too, have shut off from society mostly, and found a way of life in contemplation.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 02:12 PM
I can't freaking believe a lot of you think its ok to teach and hand out these pledge cards to kindergartners. That is just freaking sick! I blogged about it. I find it dead ass wrong and I hope that "teacher" gets fired. Now, I have a few gay friends. I think they are funny as hell. But to teach my kid that crap and without me knowing about it is something I find sick and wrong. I have a 1 year old daughter that, as of right now, will be going to private school as our public school system is getting so far wacked out its becoming the equivalent to Area 51 and UFOs. Leave the gay agenda OUT of the public school. Its a damn choice to be were NOT born that way so don't freaking promote it in the public school system.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 02:42 PM
reply to post by wisefoolishness

All I can say is that adults, let me say that again, ADULTS do not thnk like children. men think about sex every other minute. Boy 0-12 think about sex well never. Women think about sex every other minute (lol)
, Girls 0-12 never think about sex.

This is the most ridiculous think to have happen but don't worry, the rest of the nation understands its California.

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 02:45 PM
maybe the week it was had something to do with the reason she handout that flyer. i bet in february she passes something out about not hating people of difference races. it maybe a little young for the sexual orientation part of it but there is nothing wrong with teaching children not to hate.

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