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Was Akhenaten the first Christian?

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posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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I just noticed this on wiki:

Moses and Akhenaten

The idea of Akhenaten as the pioneer of a monotheistic religion that later became Judaism has been considered by various scholars. One of the first to mention this was Sigmund Freud, the founder of psychoanalysis, in his book Moses and Monotheism. Freud argued that Moses had been an Atenist priest forced to leave Egypt with his followers after Akhenaten's death. Freud argued that Akhenaten was striving to promote monotheism, something that the biblical Moses was able to achieve. Following his book, the concept entered popular consciousness and serious research.

Other scholars and mainstream Egyptologists point out that there are direct connections between early Judaism and other Semitic religious traditions. They also state that two of the three principal Judaic terms for God, Yahweh, Elohim (meaning roughly "the lofty one", morphologically plural), and Adonai (meaning "our lord", also morphologically plural) have no connection to Aten. Freud commented on the connection between Adonai, the Egyptian Aten and the Syrian divine name of Adonis as a primeval unity of language between the factions; in this he was following the argument of Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, but the argument was groundless as 'Aten' and 'Adonai' are not, in fact, linguistically related.

Akhenaten appears in history almost two-centuries prior to the first archaeological and written evidence for Judaism and Israelite culture is found in the Levant. Abundant visual imagery of the Aten disk was central to Atenism, which celebrated the natural world, while such imagery is not a feature of early Israelite culture, Although pottery found throughout Judea dated to the end of the 8th century BC have seals resembling a winged sun disk burned on their handles, presumedly thought to be the royal seal of the Judean Kingdom.
[Wikipedia]


Many people on ATS talk about Jesus Christ (God's son) being an echo of Horus (God's sun) and a number of other 'Solar Messiahs'. Akhenaten was the first monotheist, this is fact. He cast aside the old polytheism religion after an ingenious revelation that all life inadvertently came from and was supported by the sun. As with every religious shift in ancient Egypt, the old religion continued to be practiced by a few faithful priests, and occasionally went underground if the transition was volatile. This was the case after Akhenaten died.


After his death and the restoration of traditional religious practice, he and his immediate successors were ignored and excised from history by later rulers. Akhenaten himself is usually referred to as 'the enemy'.
[Wikipedia]

The thought just occurred that the escape and survival of the priests may be the factual basis for the legend of Moses leading the Jews from "Pharaoh".


On top of that, there are plenty of other Egyptian 'echoes' in Christianity, such as the Trinity, angels, fish symbolism, prevalence of 'Eye' symbolism, psalm 104, Book of Proverbs, John 1:1, the word ‘Amen’, and analogues for God (clay moulder, rock etc,), among others.
[Tehuti Research Foundation]


So where does that leave us? Let’s go back to Akhenaten. Wikipedia talks about the end of the Cult of Aten. It’s worth noting that Aten was Akhenaten’s name for the Sun God, Amun-Ra (Amen).


With Akhenaten's death, the Aten cult he had founded almost immediately fell out of favor due to pressures from the Priesthood of Amun. Tutankhaten, who succeeded him at age 8 (with Akhenaten's old vizier, Ay, as regent) changed his name to Tutankhamun in year 3 of his reign (1348 BC or 1331 BC) and abandoned Akhetaten, the city falling into ruin. Tutankhaten became the puppet king of the priests, thus the reason for his change of name. The priests threatened the unstable rulership of the child king and forced him to take various drastic actions which corrupted the written record of Egyptian succession and history, deleting the Amarna Revolution and Atenism. Temples Akhenaten had built, including the temple at Thebes, were disassembled, reused as a source of building materials and decorations for their own temples, and inscriptions to Aten defaced. Finally, Akhenaten, Smenkhkare, Tutankhamun, and Ay were removed from the official lists of Pharaohs, which instead reported that Amenhotep III was immediately succeeded by Horemheb.


Pretty harsh, but you can see that any further worship would have to be in secret.

Sigmund Freud, in the 30’s in fact came up with the same idea. He published his hypothesis in his book Monotheism and Moses.


In it, Freud argues that Moses was actually an Ancient Egyptian and in some way related to Akhenaten, an ancient Egyptian monotheist. The book was written in three parts and was a departure from the rest of Freud's work on psychoanalytic theory. The book does contain discussion of Freud's psychoanalytic thinking but was intended as a work of history.

In Moses and Monotheism, Freud contradicts the Biblical story of Moses with his own retelling of events claiming that Moses only led his close followers into freedom and that they subsequently killed Moses in rebellion either to his strong faith or to circumcision. Freud explains that years after the murder of Moses, the rebels formed a religion which promoted Moses as the Saviour of the Israelites. Freud said that the guilt from the murder of Moses is inherited through the generations; this guilt then drives the Jews to religion to make them feel better.
[Wikipedia]

Could there be a link?


The next occurrence of monotheism is Zoroastrianism, around 500 BCE. Their God:

In Persian belief, Ahura Mazdah ("Lord Wisdom") was the supreme god, he who created the heavens and the Earth
[Encyclopedia Mythica]


The founder of this religion was Zarathushtra. He was born in a princely family in the ancient city of Rae or Ragha in ancient Persia. Pourushaspa was his father's name and Dugdhova was his mother's. When he was born, he was named Spitama, after one of his great heroic ancestors.

At the age of fifteen, young Spitama, instead of taking up household duties, retired into solitude, renouncing the worldly life. He spent fifteen strenuous years in the contemplation of God, facing numerous difficulties and innumerable temptations. The evil spirit Ahirman tried his best in various wicked ways to wean him away from his chosen path. But Spitama was steadfast in his determination to seek God and find answers to his perplexing questions. Finally, at the end of fifteen years he got enlightenment.

After returning home, he started preaching his new religion. Many were reluctant to accept his teachings, because they had fallen into wicked ways. For several years he had only one disciple, his cousin, Maidyoimaongha. He wandered from place to place teaching men what he believed in. But it was in vain. In Iran, people were not yet ready to accept him as a prophet and follow his teachings.
[source]

Zoroastrianism and Judaism are fundamentally linked.

Judaism and Zoroasrtianism are both revealed religions and share a great deal in common. God imparts his revelation and pronounces his commandments to Zoroaster on "the Mountain of the Two Holy Communing Ones"; in the other Yahweh holds a similar communion with Moses on Sinai. According to jewishencyclodedia.com the points of resemblance between Zoroastrianism and Judaism are many. In both faiths God is omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal, and creator of the universe. God operates through and governs the universe with the use of angels and archangels. This presents a parallel to Yahweh that is found in the Old Testament. The Zoroastrianism Spenta Mainyu is the Christian "Holy Spirit."

Ahura Mazda's power is hampered by Ahriman (the Devil) and his host of demons. Their dominion like Satan's will be destroyed at the end of the world. The world is the Devil's domain. Zoroastrian eschatological teachings-the doctrines of a regenerate world, a perfect kingdom, the coming of a Messiah, the resurrection of the dead, and the life everlasting are nearly identical to Christianity.

Both are similar in their cosmological ideas. The six days of Creation in Genesis finds a parallel in the six periods of Creation described in the Zoroastrian scriptures. Mankind, according to each religion, is descended from a single couple, and Mashya (man) and Mashyana (women) are the Iranian Adam and Eve. Genesis has two Creation stories; the first man/women is created together, the second we have the Rib tradition. In the Bible the Flood story is nearly identical to an Avesta winter story.


And here’s the interesting bit.


It's a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other. Most scholars believe that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology, demonology, and resurrection. Also the monotheistic conception of Yahweh may have been changed or influenced by being opposed to the dualism of the Persians.
[Judaism Meets Zoroastrianism]

Edit: Reworded title.

[edit on 11/1/2008 by Good Wolf]




posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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Zoroaster has been identified with many characters in the Bible, perhaps even Abraham


There is little agreement among the scholars on the birth dates of either patriarch (~1800 - 2000 BC for Abraham/Ibrahim vs. for Zarathushtra/Zoroaster: 26 March 1767 BC: 14). Abraham/Ibrahim's birthplace is usually given as Ur (Iraq), Zarathushtra's birthplace is unknown ("The family lived near the bank of Oxus river in present day Central Asia", ibid.).

Both are associated with monotheism and the end of human sacrifice. The latter is seen as a key date of civilization, signaling the dawn of monotheism in a sea of many gods. "The Christians, following a Jewish tradition, identified Zoroaster with Ezekiel, Nimrod, Seth, Balaam and Baruch ..." (The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol.29, p.1078).

Both names are associated with sites to which pilgrimages are still being conducted (Abraham/Ibrahim in Mekka and Hebron, Zarathushtra/Zoroaster near Jerusalem)


So it’s pretty clear that Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, yet there also remains the connections with Egypt in the Bible too, so where did they come from? Christian tradition seems to have picked up a bit from other religions over the years, for example Christmas, Easter and St Valentines Day, all of which have pagan roots. Did they also inherit themes and traditions from and ancient cult from 3600 years ago?


Oh and Christians, if your gonna throw around the "Jesus is real, accept him or burn in hell" rhetoric, I'm just going to hit ignore, no take-backsies.

[edit on 11/1/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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uhhhh, to answer your first question, I would argue that Mary was the first Christian, it being her kid and all.

...not sure how this historic lesson, whether factual or not from the great book Wiki, has any bearing on....well, anything?

Is this anti-Christian? Is it pro Akhenaten? Should or could anyone's beliefs be re-evaluated with this kind of ephiphany?

....gotta go find me a UFO thread now.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Res Ipsa
 


You can't have read much of the OP, It's not all wiki.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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Ok let me just toss this out there ..

If the fallen angels were cast out PRIOR to the creation of us humans ..(which they were)
satan as the head fallen one was in the garden at the time of Adam and Eve and it was KNOWLEDGE that he offered them wasnt it ? So they ate of that fruit ..they got that knowledge ...from satan and his fallen ones ..because I am pretty sure that they got to know eachother pretty well ...So they get tossed from the garden and start producing children ...the Children were obviously the ones who branched out and created all societies including Egypt ..

Now it is well known that the Egyptians were not Godly peoples ..they served many different gods etc ..these fallen angels obviously gave them all knowledge too ....which was written down in books etc ....and as far as so many things written being close to the real deal ...well satan takes THE TRUTH and mixes a few little lies in it .....which satan surely knows what happened during creation and I am pretty sure he was also aware of the fact that there would be a flood (Noahs time) he also knew there would be a SON OF GOD come to earth too (Jesus Christ) .........he would also know all about end time events ...so he went to work in his writings to corrupt the truth about in the future (like now)
no matter what some may think ...satan knows a heck of a lot more about things than we do ...he was the HEAD ANGEL and LEARNED ALL THINGS ..from GOD HIMSELF ......so I do believe he knows what is coming ...(and knew then what was coming ) ..

So he (and his fallen angels) got with man and told man and man wrote a bunch of books (all those ancient Egyptian texts) with some truths mixed with alot of lies ..just so someone like Wolf here could come along and say what he is saying ..
Works really well for satan doesnt it Wolf ? deception is what satan WANTS and that is his ONLY GOAL ....make no mistake about it ...
And he was aware of future events ...and he sure as heck doesnt want yall to believe in any of what the bible says about Christ and God ..he wants all to NOT BELIEVE any of it is true so you wont follow it and you will end up where he is going ..(Misery loves company ) ...he is going down and he wants to take as many as can with him....



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
So he (and his fallen angels) got with man and told man and man wrote a bunch of books (all those ancient Egyptian texts) with some truths mixed with alot of lies ..just so someone like Wolf here could come along and say what he is saying ..


"Satan did it." -sigh-


Awful convenient.


There were hunter-gatherers all over the world long before the Garden times.

[edit on 11/1/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Akhenaten was the first monotheist, this is fact.

Not really. He did not invent his belief. He learned it from others. He was not a monotheist, if you understand it to be the belief in only one god. He believed in worshiping one of the gods, specifically and excluding the others from worship. He was a significant person because he fought the established priesthood to enact laws to support his particular belief system.


[edit on 1-11-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


I'll bite Good Wolf ... i'm just re-reading Drunvalo Melchizedek's Ancient Secrets of the Flowers of Life .. and i forgot that he mentioned this thesis. He does'nt say first christian but does say that Akhenaten was chosen to come to power at that moment in history to "re-introduce" to the world Monotheism. Even though his momentary reign was brief it's imprint on humanity is everlasting ... so there is something their ..imho. The priests who regained power after his fall tried in vain to erase his "work" from historic and future generations ... as the story goes they failed and Mono-theism dominates the world today. Laurence Gardner also speaks on this but has him being possibly Aaron or Moses. I do know that this man and his family were special and you can stare in wonder at the reliefs of him and Nefertiti and try and make sense of their otherworldy appearence ... it is said during his time he brought about the "realism" phase in art where it was important to reflect exactly what you see. So if that held true for the statues created of him during his time on earth ...he would be about 14 feet tall. .... Star for you for bringing him up for discussion



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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It would seem that by very definition, the first Christian, would have to be Christ himself?



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Not according to everything I've ever read. The later in his reign, he got so consumed with his new religion that he no longer tolerated the old polytheism religion, and did to the traditional system what it did to him and monotheism after he died, tried to erase it. In the end he was practicing true monotheism.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


actually that's not true. His entire point was much more in line with gnosticism ... or...you need only yourself to connect with the "one"true God. He allowed the Sun to be a symbol for this light only ... but never meant it as a Deity. .... and this is what survived through the mystery schools of egypt and the essenes up through today. Rosicrucians and the like ... His goal was to get people to stop killing each other in the name of their various gods .... sounds like we could use a bit of that these days as well.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Resinveins
 


Well considering the actual meaning of the word 'Christ', it could apply to anyone kingly or holy.

But the title was a hook. The christian movement wouldn't begin for another 1600 years. I was getting at the fact that the Aten cult practiced a very christian religion.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Resinveins
It would seem that by very definition, the first Christian, would have to be Christ himself?

-----------------------------
yeah, not so much. Jesus faithfully practiced the Jewish faith.
His intent wasn't to create "Christianity" I bet he would have been fine with the Jewish religion just following his teachings. Christian's aren't Jesus' people. Jews are. "Jew's for Jesus" probably have the inside track to being the "best" religion or faith. I always wanted to be Jewish but found out at an early age that since my mother wasn't, I wasn't going to be. What Christian wouldn't want to be a Jew for Jesus? It is the best of both worlds. God's chosen people and a Christian all in one faith.

.....uh, where was I going with this.....oh yeah, Jesus wasn't the first Christian.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Resinveins
 


actually .... the word christ comes from "christos" .. which translates into the light or something like that. I read that in a william henry book and am taking it from memory so i could be little off but i...f it's true that christ comes from "christos" than Akhenaten would be a very good fit. ..... It is so important when having these discussions to remind yourself of the connection between christianity and ancient egypt. Think about how old and established the religion of egypt was when the jews were captive ... common sense would tell you that the borrowing of ideas and terminology had to be immense .....no?



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 



the exodus makes a whole lot more sense this way

at the time of the exodus from egypt to what is now israel would be akin to the germen jews all fleeing to munich to escape the death camps

what is modern israel was egyption held land

the remanents of a heretical egyption cult heading to the border lands of thier country to set up shop again away from the more powerful reilgeous priests makes sense



Originally posted by jmdewey60

Not really. He did not invent his belief. He learned it from others. He was not a monotheist, if you understand it to be the belief in only one god.
[edit on 1-11-2008 by jmdewey60]


its the oldest faith known to man that has only 1 god to be worshipped, unless you know more then all of the history fraternity there was no one to have tought him

to say it isnt monothiestic is like saying greek democracy isnt democracy

it may not be exactly as we know it today but its the start point for what it became

reply to post by Simplynoone
 
simply from when we have spoken in the past i would have expected more then the devil did it

its well below your general standard of thoughtful posts, im dont wish or mean to be offensive but its truthful ..sorry



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by DrPaulisENKI
actually .... the word christ comes from "christos" .. which translates into the light or something like that.


Christ and what ever it's root word is (christus I think) means 'anointed [one]'. So 'Jesus the Anointed'.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


that could be right .. most of my "education" has come through reading books not browsing the web and i can be a bit lazy about digging them out for reference. .... annointed one of the light ... hows that?



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by DrPaulisENKI
 


You sound like you know a thing or two about Akhenaten and Atenism. I was going to try and see if there was a link between the Cult of Aten and Zoroastrianism but I couldn't find any on the net. You know of anything?



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by DrPaulisENKI
 



I've just finished Gardners' lost secrets of the ark, and have also previously read works by Ahmed Osman and such.

I find this whole area of enquirey totally facinating and thought provoking. On the face of it, there does seem to be more circumstancial evidence for the Jesusgod being some sort of Pharonic decendant than a complete mythalogical character that never existed.

The christians that I've spoken to faint with horror at the suggestion of some link between their Jesusgod and Pharonic royal blood and some refuse point blank to read anything other than a bible !


Currently there is no evidence whatsoever that JC did in fact exist, we don't have to go there anymore unless solid new evidence presents itself.

However, given the many similarities between the Jesusgod and the likes of dyanisis (scuse spelling) Mithra etc, one cannot but think there's something going on here.
Add this situation to propositions of Gardner etc, christians would appear to be in a better position to present a case for their god if they went down the road of investigating and describing a link with Akenaten et al.

Perhaps this is the real conspiracy of Christianity, perhaps there ar some who are fully aware of (even the possibility) of Moses or JC being Egyptian figures.

I've recently read an archeologist claiming that Scotland derived its' name from a Egyptian Princess by the name of Scota. Apparently she would have been related to the Tutenkamen/Akenaten/ Moses family, and did a runner to Europe following the demise of Armana.


There seems to be a lot going on here and I personally find it enthralling, it's so sad to see that the majority fo christians would prefer to live in a state of permanent delusion or brainwashing.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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to clarrify

Christos - Strong's Greek 5547 - Christ (lit. the Anointed One, equivalent to the Hebrew Messiah)

its a greek title

he shouldnt even be called jesus christ

that would be like richard the lion heart bieng called richard king instead of king richard

its a religeous mixup that stuck he should/would have been called christ jesus

literally meaning the messiah jesus or the anointed one jesus

but he wasnt greek so this got added after the fact


[edit on 1/11/08 by noobfun]




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