local pub lets 15, 16 & 17 year olds compete in bikini comp.

Wow, I can't believe nobody else has anything to say about this.
How sad.

reply to post by just_julie


You resent the fact that younger women can have fun and act freely. You are stuck waiting on contemptuous drunk men at the bar, all the while having to put up with that, which seems to be against your moral code, merely to raise your children. Though your original rant is riddled with jealousy, know that as a a responsible and respected member of society you shouldn't be subject to the emotionality of the situation you find yourself in at that bar. Just let it all go. Or quit and find another job. You can't stop normal human behavior, which has been repeated for all of social history. It's not wrong just because it goes against your personal ethic.

If you were a man you wouldn't care. Now with deductive reasoning, we can ascertain that you are simply uncomfortable in that social situation, which you are subject to, but you will put up with it for personal reasons, even though it may be against your moral code. It's my personal belief, however, that you have invented this moral code as a means of dissuading yourself from the fact you are jealous of the carefree life that these young women can freely pursue.

reply to post by cognoscente


Quite judgmental of you I'd say.
You know nothing of the OP including her age.

And I believe any DECENT 30-40+ men SHOULD care whether they are looking at a CHILD or a woman. They are old enough to be their father.
That's just wrong.

Can't they get plenty of legal aged women to go in and do it themselves? Wouldn't guys find that more attractive that someone who might even be young enough to be their granddaughter? Guess not.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a bar called Cheer's with my fiance for this "college night" shindig, well needless to say this song came on "You's a HOOOOOOOOOO" (do you know which one I'm talking about?) and all the guys on the dancefloor RAN over to these two girls who had been dancing on the pole on the dancefloor a few minutes ago (mind you they weren't even ON THE DANCE FLOOR), they picked this one girl up skirt over her head plopped her on the dance floor and started bending her over and whatnot.

I was high as hell and I thought it was hilarious, sad, disheartening, sure, these girls couldn't have been any younger than those you mentioned entering the bikini contest...but still pretty funny.

Then pretty much what you described happened, "Booty Shaking and Hot Body Contest!!!!!"
Needless to say the girls began to STRIP in front of all these guys, and when one brave woman went up and refused to take off her clothes she was boo'd and pushed off the stage. My guy and I dipped out of that place to smoke some more pot and have a Super Mario Kart Competition at our apt.

That's why I sit at home most of the time, get high and play video games with my fiance, not because some asshole doorman won't let me in because I'm underage.
I live in south Florida, there's plenty of that type of lifestyle around here for everyone.

Your boss shouldn't under any circumstances allow these girls into the competition, it's distasteful, and gives the place a bad name, plus HEY GUESS WHAT it's illegal no matter WHAT the drinking age is in Australia. I guess you could come up with the argument from here in the US, it's 21 to drink but 18 to party (go go months of internships at local bars and clubs!) or the more popular one "Guys 21 and over girls 18!)

So I guess in Australia it's 18 to drink but 15 to party?

Originally posted by cognoscente
reply to post by just_julie

 

b

You resent the fact that younger women can have fun and act freely. You are stuck waiting on contemptuous drunk men at the bar, all the while having to put up with that, which seems to be against your moral code, merely to raise your children. Though your original rant is riddled with jealousy, know that as a a responsible and respected member of society you shouldn't be subject to the emotionality of the situation you find yourself in at that bar. Just let it all go. Or quit and find another job. You can't stop normal human behavior, which has been repeated for all of social history. It's not wrong just because it goes against your personal ethic.

If you were a man you wouldn't care. Now with deductive reasoning, we can ascertain that you are simply uncomfortable in that social situation, which you are subject to, but you will put up with it for personal reasons, even though it may be against your moral code. It's my personal belief, however, that you have invented this moral code as a means of dissuading yourself from the fact you are jealous of the carefree life that these young women can freely pursue.

As I said earlier, I'm 21 and in great shape (not that that has ANYTHING to do with this matter!) And I am in no way "riddled" with jealousy. I Don't have children of my own. IF YOU READ WHAT I HAVE ACTUALLY WRITTEN and not just made some smug 5 second psychological analysis of me (which I have doubts you are qualified to do anyway) you would realize that this thread (as I have said TWICE before) is not about the freedom to 'have fun' or the freedom of womens own choices, it is about the fact that LAWS ARE BEING BROKEN and I tried to seek help from THE POLICE who did nothing about it!

How dare you, cognoscente, be so presumptuous as to judge me from a 200 word paragraph that I posted on ATS. I LOVE my job in hospitality and don't resent the patrons who enjoy our bar. What I do resent is my pig boss, and the extremely slack law enforcement officers that this 22,000 people town has.

reply to post by bandaidctrl


Although in no way do I condone this behavior, I respect the choices these people make (to act this way) because its their prerogative. They will learn in their own time that they will never be truly respected by anyone.

As for the age limits, legally, you have to be 18 or over to enter a licensed premises, (which means a pub, club, nightclub, anywhere that alcohol is served) whether you are drinking alcohol or not.

[edit on 13/05/2008 by just_julie]

Actually, you're merely using law as a pretext to hiding your jealousy, or if not that, your lack of comfort in that social setting. And now you feel you need the world to know, just to assure yourself your intolerance of those girls and your boss was warranted. You don't have to tell me you have a great body. Actually, I don't care. But if you think it's relevant to this discussion (which you obviously do, you wouldn't have made that sarcastic remark if you didn't), that you feel that fact is necessary in conveying your disgust with the social institution of which you are part, it only proves your discomfort. That's all one can determine by reading your post. No normal person defends the law with such vehemence under such petty circumstances, unless to benefit by it. The only thing you could possibly benefited by this unnecessary exertion of moral authority, is the sense of certainty in oneself that comes with oppressing another individual, this crowd of young women in bikinis, which happens to be yourself by the way...

And, don't assume I don't have a Master's in Applied Positive Psychology from UPenn... And again, don't now assume I'm not applying my training toward more than belittling members on some conspiracy forum in my spare time. I mean, hell, it's fun but that's not all I do. Who am I kidding? I'm horrible.

Anyway, have you considered the inexplicable happiness your bosses are getting by "exploiting" these women, not to mention the positive response it will illicit from their customers, who probably don't even know they're underage? Just because your boss, whom I'm going to assume is a man, is profiting off this venture doesn't mean you must oppose it at every of step the way. What you don't realize is that you're being slightly intrusive on the normal social behavior exhibited by your bosses and their customers. 15-17 year girls dancing on tables in pubs isn't a new invention. The law isn't all powerful either, social tradition usually lets any strong enough population to get away with whatever it is they've been doing for so long. Or are you really the law abiding and constituted citizen you are hoping everyone will believe you are by starting this thread?

Just go for it lady, pursue the law, but I doubt it'll make you any happier in the end. You'll probably feel satisfied with your moral crusade in the end, but you won't really. You'll keep emulating this behavior until you and everyone you meet has nothing left to enjoy. Your last post directed at me is clearly indicative of this.

[edit on 3-11-2008 by cognoscente]

Mate, you are so full of #.
I am done with this thread. All I have gotten are personal attacks.
It's a shame that a group of people can't even discuss the boundaries of right and wrong, and how slack law enforcement can be, while threads like this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and

www.abovetopsecret.com...

get so much attention.

I'm really disappointed.


[edit on 13/05/2008 by just_julie]

Originally posted by just_julie
Mate, you are so full of #.
I am done with this thread. All I have gotten are personal attacks.
It's a shame that a group of people can't even discuss the boundaries of right and wrong, and how slack law enforcement can be, while threads like this:
snip

Julie, I may have made a mess us against AccessDenied but to say we havent discussed, the boundaries and the realities of this is wrong.

You may not have liked some of the responses, but that is the nature of discussion.

Infact I think I broadened the debate a little to look at the legalised aspects of this issue within the world.

And the reality of the male side of this, even though it can sometimes not be a nice picture.

You obviously feel upset at these men in this bar behaving, watching or encouraging this behaviour, and I certainly did not just on the Bloke bandwagon, in fact called in question our own behaviour and double standards in this regard.

Whilst also being honest about the Socialisation of this issue that has happened over recent years, exploring where the Norm of real abuse is legalised and in some cases encouraged by parents in parts of the western world for contrast.

Also as said where do the ladies stand on the issue of its wrong if you are 17 yrs old and say 300 days but a month or two later is it ok to be a Porn star, not just dancing infront of a few men, but doing as they do.

Would you say that as long as the girls are all over a certain age its ok , but just before its not?

This is the issue for me, the legal aspects of when its right and when its wrong based on arbitary written rules, which by the way are usually created by men, unfortunately their is not enough of a female representation worldwide in Lawmaking.

What would your solution be to this if you could make the law?

18 ok but anything below not? where is the line of acceptance or not, and is it right to have a carte blanche in such cases.

I am sure these issues will trouble societies for many years to come.
What I dont understand Julie is that if it was Illegal as you say, and you reported it to the police, They have to make an investigation don't they?

Not to would put their jobs at risk no?

So if you have been unable to get the police to do their job, why not inform the local area Inspector, or whatever their rank is in your country?

Surely then by doing that and making a complaint they would have to investigate or they are actually at risk of prosecution themselves not doing as should?

Just some thoughts on this and maybe how you can stop this if you really feel something very bad is happening, which as the only observer of the event here, are the only one to know.

You could also make an unnamed call to the local press, they I am sure would love the sensationalist nature of this, and the bad publicity would force the bar owner to change this event to legality only?

In addition maybe inform one of the dad's especially if one is as you say just 15 (this i find to understand Im pretty sure the police would be over this like a rash if that was the case, its bordering on peadophilia, so my responses may have been based in part on sceptisism)

I am sure he would be having a "word" or two in the alley out the back with the bar owner pretty quick?

Kind regards,

Elf.

Looking at a girl in a bikini never hurt anyone. As long as everyone in the contest feel comfortable and is not being harassed in any way then I don't think it's a problem. The police have more important things to worry about such as under age girls working in strip joints or as prostitutes. The number of convictions of adults responsible for those actual crimes would go down if the police spent their time making sure no one under a certain age is parading around in their swimmers.

I think its great! There should be more bars with teen bikini contests!

What I hate is why is America the only country that has the drinking age at 21. That sucks. Sure, go ahead and kill yourself slowly with cigs but you can't have a good time at a party...