Originally posted by Buck Division
These are good definitions. Let me say what the MAIN PROBLEM with socialism is:

Most people are total slobs. They won't take care of things unless it directly benefits them. Take a look at public restrooms for example, or at the litterbugs of the world.

In socialist countries, things begin to deteriorate. Health care starts getting sloppy, money dries up, a lot of things go bad. So the government starts enforcing very strict and often cruel standards to keep people straight.

So this whole deterioration is also punctuated by less freedom.

It seems to be a problem with human nature. We were not made to be socialists. Humans lose their temper too easily, and are prone to laziness, hatred, and sloppiness.

Would that happen in the good old USA? Dunno -- maybe.

i was going to say this exact same thing! you bring up good points, and i think it very well could happen here. sad, but something we need to think about.

We already live in a partially socialist nation:

Social Security
Welfare
Food Stamps
WIC (Women/Infant/Child nutrition/health care program)
Farming subsidies
Oil subsidies
Ethanol blending subsidies
Sugar subsidies
Medicaid
Medicare
Earned Income Credit
Child Tax credit
Additional Child Tax Credit
Housing subsidies

All of these are socialist programs. They all intercede where capitalism fails (or claim to). And let's face it, capitalism may be the best economic system in practice known to man, but it is not perfect. It can go awry on one of two directions: by a run of 'bad luck' a person may find themselves homeless and unable to find employment, or by a run of 'good luck' someone may become so wealthy that they effectively become a financial god, able to purchase not only goods and services, but political sway and control over entire segments of the economy. Neither is a good thing.

Socialism addresses the former problem by placing 'safety nets' (such as Welfare) in place to help those who have fallen so far down the financial ladder that they cannot recover without help. Socialism tries to slow the latter problem by increasing taxation on the most wealthy, making it harder to rise above a certain point on that financial ladder. These can both be good things.

But the devil is in the details. If that safety net becomes a safety hammock, it leads to a complete breakdown of the economy due to a lack of people available to actually perform the work, and higher taxes as too few producers try to pay for the lifestyles of too many government recipients (sound familiar?). Over-taxation of the wealthy can lead to a loss of reward for production, and thus a loss of interest in producing.

The point is that while a little socialism is necessary to combat the tendency of capitalism to run rampant across people's lives, a little dab will do ya. Too much socialism in a capitalistic society leads to disaster, as it will circumvent (by it's very intent!) the very things that make capitalism work in most cases: the greed and drive of the human animal. It instead allows another human trait to take over: human laziness.

I have stopped listening to the cries of "socialist!" coming from the right wing of politics. They advocate socialism as well, only they tend to aim it at those who do not need help, like large corporations reporting record profits (I have no problem with the profits reported by the oil companies of late; I simply think they are a little too well-off for government assistance). Like has always been the 'American Way', the government seems to have it backwards... again.

TheRedneck

Well now we start to talk about insurance. My wife had a tooth pulled and a retainer made by a local dentist, three years ago. It cost us $500 because we had no insurance. She had another pulled and a new flapper made last month, Our insurance paid $1279.00 and we got a bill for $687.27. Go insurance. Oh yea don't forget I also pay a large monthley premium

[edit on 31-10-2008 by red 5]

Originally posted by red_leader


Yes we've heard about these clinics we refer to this as the "second tier" of your 2 tiered health care system.

The thing is, our second-tier healthcare is better than your one-tier health care system.


Free (or cheap) stuff is usually low quality. Healthcare is no exception.

True, we have healthcare options that are very expensive, but they are also very good with very skilled doctors who won't mess up.

I would personally be very wary about going in for open heart surgery that is being paid for with free healthcare.

Can somebody explain the difference between medicare and medicaid?? I don't get it.