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Please explain Socialism to an idiot.

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posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:10 PM
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Would someone please explain what it means to be a socialist to me? I really am having a hard time getting that. The reason I ask is Presidential candidate Barack Obama is beeing accused of pushing toward socialism, and I am planning to vote for him.




posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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Socialism is like Robin Hood, steal from the rich and give to the poor.

The problem is, in this country the rich actually work hard for their money and deserve it. That's what made this country so great, "The American Dream", where anyone can "make it" (get rich) if they try hard enough.


It's the sole reason we became the only super-power in the world.



If we become a socialist nation, there will no longer be "The American Dream" and our nation will slowly wither away and become a third world nation. No one will have the desire to do anything anymore or to go out and make something of themselves, since their hard earned money would just be taken from them.

What's the point of going out, starting a business, and making money if the money is just going to be taken away and given to other people? Nothing at all.


Socialist nations have always failed. Look at the Soviet Union. It collapsed, while our capitalist nation kept on truckin'. And now as our nation moves closer and closer to socialism, look at the state our economy is in.


Obama is a socialist, a very mild one, but still a socialist. He wants to tax the heck out of the wealthy. If he does this, people will no longer want to try hard and become wealthy themselves, since their money will just be taken any way. So what would be the point in going out and making something of yourself? Absolutely nothing. With no one going out and forming businesses, hiring employees, etc, etc, our nation's infrastructure and economy would flat out collapse.


For anyone that believes in Socialism, I dare you to actually move to a Socialist nation and live there. Hmm, no takers? You would rather prefer to stay here in our capitalist paradise? That's what I thought.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by LogicalExplanation]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by LogicalExplanation
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Well, in an effort to be balanced here, that isn't exactly the best definition.

Here's what wiki has to say;


Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved. Source


Edit to add source. (Even a mod can err.
)




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 31-10-2008 by NGC2736]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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A lot of people think socialism and communism are the same. This is not true. Socialism is the middle ground betwen capitalism and communism.
Common socialist values include:

Organized Labour(Unions)
Universal Healthcare
Social Services

Dictionary Definition:

so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm)
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

edited for spelling

[edit on 31-10-2008 by red_leader]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by LogicalExplanation
 


More please, thank you for the reply but is that all?


+4 more 
posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:30 PM
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Stealing from the rich is not quite right.

I agree that people who work hard deserve to make a decent amount of money.

Socialism is about spreading the wealth and looking after people who are less fortunate than yourself. Not stealing from the rich.

The last post sums up everything that I hate about America...... it's just so black and white.

Why not take certain elements form different political ideals to make a better world in general.

I am amazed that people are so scared of the word socialsim !!!

You say that this is the reason why Soviet Russia collapsed but it seems to me that capitalist USA is about to collapse pretty soon if you are not to careful... due to your very problem....GREED.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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Socialism is collective ownership of the entities that make society function. In a Socialistic economy, the government "owns" the banks, insurance companies, the media, etc., instead of being owned by corporations. The people make more rules about how these entities are run. Ideally, the people run the entities the same way they run the government.

In a capitalist society like the US, the wealthy own the banks, the insurance companies, the media, etc. They get to (for the most part) set their own rules and say how their corporations are run.

Here are several sites you can read to learn about it.

What is Socialism?
What is Socialism?
What is Socialism?



Indeed, socialists are very concerned about the injustice and social ills in the world today—hunger, poverty, unemployment, illiteracy, disease, war, the exploitation of workers, the oppression of nations, races, women, and gays, the destruction of the environment, and the threat of nuclear annihilation.

Socialists obviously don't have a monopoly on compassion, however. What distinguishes socialists from other socially concerned people is that we do not view these problems as normal, natural, eternal, or an inherent feature of the human condition. We believe that these problems are historically and socially created and that they can be solved by human beings through conscious, organized political struggle and change.

Socialist Action argues that the wealth and other advances produced by industry, technology, and science have made it possible to eliminate these problems but that these problems continue because of the dominant economic and political interests and values of society. We assert that capitalism is ultimately the main source of these problems in the United States and the world today.



Now, while Barack Obama IS very concerned about the injustice and social ills in the world today—hunger, poverty, unemployment, illiteracy, disease, war, the exploitation of workers, the oppression of nations, races, women, and gays, the destruction of the environment, and the threat of nuclear annihilation, he has never once mentioned collective ownership of anything. In fact, he has said he is a "strong believer in Free Market, strong believer in capitalism", which is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of Socialism.

The reason people are calling him a Socialist is that he wants to raise the taxes from 35% to 39% on people who make more than $250,000 per year. He wants to lower the taxes of people who make under $200,000 per year (the middle class). When you learn what his tax plan has in common with Socialism (collective ownership), please let me know. Thanks.


I hope that helps.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by LogicalExplanation
 


Since when is Robin Hood a villain????????

You forget one thing, the USSR was a strictly communist dictatorship- THIS IS NOT SOCIALISM: Despite what American propaganda has force fed down your throats for so long.

You forget that Canada is a nation that embraces a lot of Socialist Values. Yet we haven't collapsed, In fact we thrive. Thanks to our Universal Health Care system I dont have to worry about going bankrupt if I face a severe medica problem.

Also, thanks to my union, I earn a beter wage than individuals who work non union. Including, double time weekends, $5/hr in my pension fund, and protection from discrimination of any kind.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by red_leader]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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O.K I get it, but I think every one is freaking out about nothing. First i will post to you the happiest nation on earth, Denmark. news.bbc.co.uk...
so I guess the thought that a socialist nation never succeeded is wrong
Second Sarah Palin,
$1,200
Special payment to each Alaskan resident this year from new oil tax.
$2,000
Estimated annual dividend each Alaskan will receive this year from oil-wealth savings account, not counting the new oil tax.
The Seattle Times.
Third you know every one says look at Canada for socialized health care it does not work, but what about the places where it does work? But what about Germany, The Netherelands, The U.K. Too many others.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by red_leader
reply to post by LogicalExplanation
 



You forget that Canada is a nation that embraces a lot of Socialist Values. Yet we haven't collapsed, In fact we thrive. Thanks to our Universal Health Care system I dont have to worry about going bankrupt if I face a severe medica problem.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by red_leader]

A lot of folks tell me to ask a Canadian how they like socialised health care. (as if you will say it is horrible) So I am askin How do like it.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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Socialism is stealing from those who produce, and giving it to those who don't.
(Lazy people are socialists.)

Socialism is taking a third of your paycheck, and giving it to the bum soaking up wine all week. (No-working drunks love socialism)

Socialism is the creation of an entire group of people who confuse a right with legalized theft. (This is taking the benefit of other people's money.)

Socialism is the enablement and enlargement of a class of people who can assume no responsibility and are too damned sorry to better themselves.
(this is the creation of an entire army of slugs.)

Socialism is a method of creating more and more dependent people who have lost any ability to think for themselves, or do for themselves.
(talk about social leeches and zombies. They don't even have to think for themselves.)

Socialism enables the uneducated and unknowing to breed like rats, creating more of the same. It's a self-perpetuating disease.

By bringing social and economic slugs the benefits of those who actually produce, you instantly have an army of people to give you political leverage.

Yet a socialist economy stagnates, innovation stagnates, production stagnates, and the next thing you know, the entire country has lost its pride, nationalism, greatness, uniqueness, and prosperity.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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These are good definitions. Let me say what the MAIN PROBLEM with socialism is:

Most people are total slobs. They won't take care of things unless it directly benefits them. Take a look at public restrooms for example, or at the litterbugs of the world.

In socialist countries, things begin to deteriorate. Health care starts getting sloppy, money dries up, a lot of things go bad. So the government starts enforcing very strict and often cruel standards to keep people straight.

So this whole deterioration is also punctuated by less freedom.

It seems to be a problem with human nature. We were not made to be socialists. Humans lose their temper too easily, and are prone to laziness, hatred, and sloppiness.

Would that happen in the good old USA? Dunno -- maybe.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by red 5
 



I love it I can see any doctor any time I want and get this.... its free



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Yea for sure, Sarah Palin is a demon.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
Socialism is stealing from those who produce, and giving it to those who don't.


That sounds like a Sean Hannity's definition of socialism, but I don't think that it is really the correct definition. A better definition is that Socialism is forcing everyone to produce to some extent, for the general benefit of society.

The key word here is "forcing", and not "stealing".

Edit: I realize I am quibbling. Is slavery a type of theft? Perhaps.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by Buck Division]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Buck Division
 


Oh, yea you are right, Like Germany, Or the U.K,s The Netherlands, Look into it even Red leader is sayin it is good, and he is from Canada Where I have been told the system sucks.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by red 5]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Wow dooper You are almost as unpopular as i am aroud here.
And I am sure you are as worried as I am about that.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by red 5
 


Get this Red 5: If I am laid off from my job, I am covered by Employment Insurance benefits. This means I will still collect a wage( Although not huge) until I can find another job. Every worker and company in the nation contributes to this system. And every worker in the country can draw benefits. Does this sound evil to you?

There is a reason why Canada is the envy of every nation on earth. If you ask any person in the poor countries of the world "Where would you move if you had the opportunity?" 9/10 will reply "Canada"



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by Buck Division
 


Buck, if I came to your house and "took" your TV by force, would that not be theft?

Is your TV your property?
Is your home your property?
Is your computer your property?
How about your car?

Now. How about your money. You earned it. It's yours. Your property.

No one argues that taxes must be paid to contribute to roads, bridges, monetary system, government agencies, the military, and other things we all benefit from as a people.

But to force one damned dollar from one person to enrich another is called robbery. Theft.

No one should have their personal property, either in the form of real property, or any other assets, including cash, to be taken from you to benefit another.

No. It's forcible theft. Stealing.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by red 5
reply to post by Buck Division
 


Oh, yea you are right, Like Germany, Or the U.K,s The Netherlands, Look into it even Red leader is sayin it is good, and he is from Canada Where I have been told the system sucks.


Actually, I am with you. If you look at any of my posts, you will see I am actually a communist.


I am also a realist, and I think that it is a sure fire way of getting us deep into a dumpster if we embrace socialism without a good plan. And I am not so sure a good plan is really possible.

Germany, UK, Netherlands are all benefitting from the rampant capitalism of the USA and Japan, and a few other countries.

One way to make communism work: automate production so much that people don't have to work very hard. Everything becomes cheap or free at that point. And hopefully the engineers (who work out of love?) can keep the quality high.

Edit: Maybe by 2108?



[edit on 31-10-2008 by Buck Division]





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