The moronic tyranny of the "there´s no proof" crowd

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by TSOM87

 

More than a hundred years ago the Wright Brothers speculated about flying. The savage skeptics spit on them for "lying", saying "there is no truth/proof".

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Skyfloating]

Those Skeptics should have went looking for Proof to see if is was possible rather than spiting on them!

Is there something wrong with looking for Proof? Thats all i want!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by ashamedamerican

 

I see a lot of people make threads that must have taken hours of research and reference-searching...acts of creative love...only for complete dullards to muddy their threads with the "there´s no proof" BS.

How are we suppoed to know life in the Universe is a Reality if we aint got Proof? Thats all we want!

Peace&Love

So many people on this planet have been burned by religions, it's no wonder people find it harder to "believe" anymore. Something much more logical like aliens comes into topic and everyone is so used to yelling "proof!" they can't hear anything else. You can't really blame anyone. Or, they've been programmed to laugh at anyone who mentions aliens from childhood. It's hard to break those mental bonds for most.

Answer me this, is there something wrong with asking for Proof. Am not a mean person. I want the same as you people, but i need Proof to believe in life out there. Same with Ghosts, i need the Proof, to know they exist!

I can't just believe and wait for the proof, i need the proof to believe!

I aint saying Life out there doesn't exist, i need the proof, so i can say there is life out there!

reply to post by seagrass


Of course its possible! There just wouldn't be any PROOF...

i'm a two line stunna

Originally posted by mmariebored
So many people on this planet have been burned by religions, it's no wonder people find it harder to "believe" anymore. Something much more logical like aliens comes into topic and everyone is so used to yelling "proof!" they can't hear anything else. You can't really blame anyone. Or, they've been programmed to laugh at anyone who mentions aliens from childhood. It's hard to break those mental bonds for most.

Well i have never been religious. I believe the most important thing in life is Love, you no why, because i can feel it, i know its there, the proof is in me. I feel love for my family and friends!

I accept others believe's, someone who believe's in life from the Universe without proof, i accept that, am no better than them just because i want proof. I just want proof to believe! Thats all!

Of course, then there is the moronic tyranny of the "there is absolutely no reason to believe this but I'm going to anyways" crowd, yet somehow, we never hear about them.

Its beyond ignorant to assume that just because someone engages in a conspiracy and seeks to conceal their actions that they are successful in doing so. In any conspiracy of any level of importance there are so many people involved that there WILL BE EVIDENCE. Any conspiracy of even regional importance will have to involve at least hundreds of people, and every one of them will have to be perfect in their actions in order to never leave evidence. Intent to create no evidence does not equal no evidence existing, unless we assume everyone who engages in a conspiracy is perfect and incapable of screwing up.

The truth of the matter is that conspiracies will always create evidence - if they are true - because someone is going to screw up. Trying to dismiss claims for evidence simply because its a conspiracy is the height of moronic tyranny.

Is there something wrong with asking for proof?

I don't think there is!

I aint going to wait untill in falls on my lap. I aint going to sit back and talk about it with my friends, untill it's dinner time. I want to go out and search for it and find it. Thats how Explorers find what there looking for! If they don't find it, they keep searching.

why can't you have your own opinion? i don't believe or disbelieve. I'm more for 'I'll beleive it when I see it' rather than believing in something because somebody has told me its so on a website. I think skeptics have every right to say prove it because just like everything else thats never been witnessed people will always ask for proof, for example if I said i can do 100000 press ups I'm sure soebody would say prove it and until I could prove it then I'd have to accept their questioning of my claims.

The thing is no body can say they know for a ''FACT'' that there in life out in the Universe, just like someone can't say they aint No life out in the Universe. WE don't know!

I would rather have the facts and Proof rather than just believe. Not saying that am better than anyone, am not, i just want the proof thats all!


How are we to know life out in the Universe is a reality if we have no Proof!

I want the truth but in order to have the truth i need the Proof!

Originally posted by TSOM87
Answer me this, is there something wrong with asking for Proof. Am not a mean person. I want the same as you people, but i need Proof to believe in life out there. Same with Ghosts, i need the Proof, to know they exist!

There is no proof.
There is evidence, however.
It's up to you to decide if the evidence is good enough for you to believe.

Originally posted by TSOM87
I can't just believe and wait for the proof, i need the proof to believe!

Then don't believe in it.
No one is forcing you to believe in anything.
If the evidence is not sufficient for you, then you either decide not to believe it or seek new evidence.

Wow. The OP was a valiant attempt to paint things like evidence and proof as bad things, but it ultimately failed. Nice try though, to defend a total lack of common sense in rhetorical wordplay.

Johnnie Cochran would be proud.

Theres nothing wrong with speculation, conspiracies or even a wild drawing together of dots. Flashes of inspiration or serendipity dont often come from a slavish devotion to the facts after all.

The problem is when it goes too far, like when people build whole belief systems on unprovable assumptions. You need solid provable foundations, otherwise everything ontop can come crashing down, and you can find everything you ever believed was bs.

As for 'moronic tyranny', total believers are just as moronic as total sceptics. Sitting in the middle should help preserve some sanity.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
And so, in case of cover-ups, we are left with very scant evidence...if any.
We have to do real detective work...speculate...extrapolate...connect dots... dismiss preconceptions...consider every angle...consider and re-consider...collect and discard information...

sorry if this has already been posted in this thread...

I am new here and did not read every post


anyway Sky,

I am one that seeks the truth, one who asks for proof, and one who NEEDS proof in order to say what did or did not happen.

The problem that I personally have with the majority of truthers and conspiracy theories is that they do not "SPECULATE"...to the vast majority of truthers it is not a conspiracy "THEORY"...to them people like me are known as sheep and they are the ones that really know what is going on.


how can you call a group of people that seeks for proof a "moronic tyanny"???

what about the group of people that just decide to make up thier own stories, claim them to be correct and obvious, and then go on to call the rest of us brainless sheep ???

sorry again if that has already been said here...take it easy on me, I am new

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

ZeroKnowledge - You make a good point about being responsible in dissemination of information when it comes to a matter of conspiracy. Part of the reason conspiracy theorists have not been given the respect they deserve is beause of the irresponsible acts of those who lack the maturity or knowledge to actively engage in putting the information out to the public. Though the information may have originated from a credible source, it essentially is misinterpreted, embellished upon, or purposely distorted for any number of reasons. Thus the wrong version is easily debunked. My concern is in the number of people who can say there is no proof of something when there is audio and visual proof all over the place. Do their eyes and ears deceive them? A primary example is the 9/11 attacks. How many more witnesses do you have to hear say they heard bombs detonating inside the towers long before they collapsed? How many lies do you have to hear Bush tell about his efforts to find Bin Laden and about the moments he first learned of the attacks? How many times do you have to hear Bush answer the question, "What does Irag have to do with the terrorist attacks!", with "Nothing." I was always annoyed by those who constantly babbled about conspiracies. The bottom line is, now that I have no doubt about what's been happening based on my own observations, I see us as in grave danger of losing what we have--and it's going to happen in this lifetime. I urge people to trust their own sense of sight and hearing and to trust their instincts. I realize it's hard medicine to take when you come to realize things have not been as they seem and that your government can trick you--and even murder--a great president llike JFK and thousands of innocent people on 9/11, but it's a fact we need to face. After accepting that you then need to ask yourself, "Why would they do it? Crimes of that magnitude are geared toward one purpose and one purpose only--and it has everything to do with control on a grand scale.

eye witnesses are worthless when it comes to events such as 9/11

they saw everything from lazor beams to missles to helecopters and then to air planes...


when my girlfriend woke me from bed after the first plane hit the reporter said it was a small private plane...so i went back to sleep...no one really cared until we all saw the second plane smash....

eye witnesses for the most part are worthless IMO

Originally posted by common-sense
eye witnesses are worthless when it comes to events such as 9/11

Can you do me a favor and turn this into a thread or something.

How is eyewitness testimony worthless when the NIST report in regards to Building 7 used several eye-witness reports to conduct thier investigation?

If eyewitness rtestimony is worthless, I guess it would be nice for th Pentagon to release the all the video footage of flight 77 hitting the Pentaon.

The biggest problem I see here is ego. Proof is something hard to come by, especially when dealing with conspiracies. Evidence on the other hand, is rampant. The problem is, what some people consider evidence. I have seen some evidence on ATS that even a judge would consider hard evidence(although, not definite proof), enough for one to look into the situation more. But, for some reason, there are some folks who refuse to consider anything as evidence at all. This baffles me to some extent, and so...I believe that problem has to do with too much pride, ego and comfort. Evidence and proof are not the same, but are closely related, for evidence brings about proof.

Also, many do not realize what a true conspiracy theory is. There is conspiracy, then there is conspiracy theory. They are not the same thing. A theory is strictly an idea, usually based on factual findings. A conspiracy is truth that is covered & smothered with lies. In a sense, one can say, a conspiracy theory is based on evidence, while a conspiracy is based on proof. However, keep in mind that evidence can also be proof, in that, one may have evidence indicating of some thing, which cannot be proved, but the evidence is proof of itself.

The FBI may be investigating a serial killer and they are have their facts to go on. They know there is a killer, they know the crimes he has committed, and they may even know the sex of the killer. With all the evidence they have gathered, they may have a theory about where he may strike next. They do not know. They do not have proof(proof is unquestionable and is absolute). They have a theory, an idea as to where he may strike next, because the of facts they have gathered thus far.

The same goes for conspiracists. Many conspiracy theories do not form out of thin air. Surprising to some, they are based on factual findings. A conspiracist may theorize that the financial crises the world is facing is brought on partly by the Rothschilds. Now, there is no proof for such a statement, but there is evidence that easily shows why one may make such a statement. We know the Rothschilds exist & we know they have a strong hold on the banking system throughout the world. It's just an example, but you see my point?

The problem with some folks is, they will hear the claim and completely write it off as another kook babbling. They ask for proof of the claim, but refuse to study the evidence and maybe draw their own conclusions and form their own theories. The claim is; the Rothschilds are partly responsible for the financial crisis the world is seeing. They ask for proof of this. This, so far...cannot be proved. However, they dismiss the factual evidence entirely and reject the entire idea. Maybe the conspiracy theory itself is indeed wrong, but the evidence used to form the theory is still very much there, but it too is dismissed. Why?

[edit on 2-11-2008 by sdrawkcabII]

Too many members currently lack (or refuse to use) their innate abilities to think abstractly....This gets in the way of the discussion held by those capable of thinking abstractly.

How can we talk about what an alien 'might possibly look like if they existed' with the constant barrages of morons saying "got proof of aliens?" "you've got no proof, show me proof!" " this is stupid aliens aren't real!" ......

That doesn't help us figure out what they might look like 'given the conditions specified in the OP'.... But they still post to tell us to stop posting... because apparently we shouldn't talk about anything that hasn't already been talked about - that's too abstract for them.

It has become apparent that one need not be capable of abstract thought to be an 'effective' skeptic - you just have to have a few disruptive catch-phrases on hand and use them persistently until the thread is dead.

It isn't hard to kill a tread - "moronic tyranny" is often enough.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

Originally posted by TruthTellist
Too many members currently lack (or refuse to use) their innate abilities to think abstractly....

[edit on 2-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

too many people that think "abstractly" claim thier thoughts to be truth and not theory...