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The moronic tyranny of the "there´s no proof" crowd

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posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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Moronic Tyranny? PROVE IT!
How can you prove that they're morons? Do you have any evidence?
Sorry Bub, but I'm just not buying this thread unless you upload photos, printouts, fingernail clippings and hair samples.
FACEITYOUVGOTNOPROOF FACEITYOUVGOTNOPROOF FACEITYOUVGOTNOPROOF.
No, but really, they're very annoying.
I have already unleashed the power of my ignore button ten times this week and will continue to do so until I have clean, filtered debates.
*
Bear in mind skepticism and cynicism are two completely different things.
Skeptics know nothing and ask a million questions. Cynics know it all and believe everyones full of it.
*
There are people out there who've seen some things. There are people who KNOW there's a grand game being played under our noses. We come here to congregate, and these vacant ******* follow us here.

On the plus side, the amount of paid disinfo agents here using the divide and conquer technique proves we're on to something. They're all over Infowars and youtube too.
If you're an explorer you have to deal with some weeds now and then.


[edit on 1-11-2008 by HiAliens]




posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 07:26 AM
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Hi.

I certainly regard myself as open minded,and i am more than capable of finding some validity in even the most outlandish theories.

However,on my travels through the many threads on this site,i have come across many members who simply will deny all theories presented to them!

When i first joined this site,i truly believed that i would be surrounded by people who were truly interested in many differing theories,and would be able to discuss the pros and cons of these subjects with respect and civillity,but over the past couple of months,i have seen some pretty venomous and personal attacks carried out by these "debunkers" who simply refuse to subscribe to any theory on this great site!

I am totally in favour of constructive dialect between both sides of an arguement but honestly,i think some of these members would argue about the colour of their next bowel movement!



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 07:29 AM
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I've been on both sides of this fence in the past.

Personally, I think it's down to the actual subject matter and the actual poster as to whether proof is necessary on a subject and whether what is being offered is speculation or is being presented as fact

If someone is speculating, it's important to give what they say at least some allowance regarding the odd hole in their theory. At the same time, someone shouldn't come to a thread with more holes than theory. If they've not taken the trouble to think over their idea or story enough at their end then it's obviously not that important to them and there's no reason it should be taken that importantly by anyone else either.

Now if someone is asking 'could this be the case, what do you all think?' and is asking for help formulating their idea, then that's all well and good, but quite often, those who cling to not having to prove anything are often those that present something as fact and what they say is actually how it is, full stop.

I think too often, the idea of not having to give proof is used as a 'get out clause'. I get tired of seeing 'I am Darvlok, a 300-year-old vampire but I don't have to offer proof' type threads, particularly if they're also backed up with 'all you naysayers will never comprehend what I have to say anyway, so I will not waste my time on you'.

There's a big difference between not being able to prove something and refusing to prove something just 'because'. If someone is claiming to be an alien, werewolf, vampire &c, then that kind of claim is very easy to verify.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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I've just realised ignore is limited to ten. I saw another thread on this. I'd love to see it expanded to at least 30.


[edit on 1-11-2008 by HiAliens]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by HiAliens
 


As would I...

There should be no upper limit for ignores. It is the only way to solve the problem. 10 just ain't enough, and we shouldn't be forced to choose.

I have noticed certainly people have found a way to take advantage of being on my ignore list;

I have a lot of people on my ignore list - mostly communists and subversives, trolls, 'skeptics' etc....

I removed one person from my ignore list last night, only to find that he had been replying to my posts for the last several weeks.

I had even informed him of his place on my list and further asked him to stop replying to me as I would no longer be able to see his posts. He did not stop;

In fact, he was actually engaging me in debates and then lambasting me for my cowardice in refusing to issue a rebuttal.

This member would never miss an opportunity, even now he replies to my posts where he finds them. I placed him on ignore again, but took him off to find he was still at it; Targeting my posts for an easy victory and undermining my reputation in the process.

In the future -I would like this debate tactic to be disallowed, possibly incorporated into the Terms and Conditions.

The rule could be: "You are not to reply to posts belonging to those members who have placed you on their ignore lists, and who have notified you as to your placement on their ignore list."

Members should not be allowed to continue attacking those who CANNOT fight back because they chose to use the Ignore function to shield themselves.

*It is ironic that the ignore function actually allows for more vicious personal attacks to go unreported - the victim does not even know when they are being attacked.


[edit on 1-11-2008 by TruthTellist]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by ashamedamerican

Personally I think MODS should ban these trolls from the forum.
Unfortunately this is not always the case.



Sometimes I´d love to...but we neednt go as far as to force agreement. Disagreement is the hallmark of free and open discussion.

However...there´s indeed a difference between disagreeing and being a repetitive and pointless troll.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by HiAliens
 


As would I...

There should be no upper limit for ignores. It is the only way to solve the problem. 10 just ain't enough, and we shouldn't be forced to choose.

I have noticed certainly people have found a way to take advantage of being on my ignore list;

I have a lot of people on my ignore list - mostly communists and subversives, trolls, 'skeptics' etc....

I removed one person from my ignore list last night, only to find that he had been replying to my posts for the last several weeks.

I had even informed him of his place on my list and further asked him to stop replying to me as I would no longer be able to see his posts. He did not stop;

In fact, he was actually engaging me in debates and then lambasting me for my cowardice in refusing to issue a rebuttal.

This member would never miss an opportunity, even now he replies to my posts where he finds them. I placed him on ignore again, but took him off to find he was still at it; Targeting my posts for an easy victory and undermining my reputation in the process.

In the future -I would like this debate tactic to be disallowed, possibly incorporated into the Terms and Conditions.

The rule could be: "You are not to reply to posts belonging to those members who have placed you on their ignore lists, and who have notified you as to your placement on their ignore list."

Members should not be allowed to continue attacking those who CANNOT fight back because they chose to use the Ignore function to shield themselves.

*It is ironic that the ignore function actually allows for more vicious personal attacks to go unreported - the victim does not even know when they are being attacked.


[edit on 1-11-2008 by TruthTellist]


Heh, I don't know whether I'm actually on your list on not - I forget! Maybe I am! - however, one potential problem is that there's no 'who's ignoring you' list in the ATS member centre and there's no 'on thread' notification in the same way that friends and foes appear.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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I sometimes feel that creative minds at ATS are bullied into thinking-small.

Forced into re-starting at Base 1, at "Do aliens exist or not?"

This is especially difficult for people who would like to discuss Base 2, Base 3, Base 4 questions. People who have accepted the available evidence for ETs as sufficient and want to move the heck on and discuss more speculative aspects of existence.

The pressure in society to all "think on the same level" and only take what can be immediately seen and proven in a laboratory, serves to dumb down the populace.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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Sky...

there is a reason you are who you are, amen

I refrain from debate until my all hallwows eve antics subsidide


I am and truly not coherent enough to do my side justice

but.... I will say I look forward to what comes, because I will die for my felllow man and it's not drunken bravado that claims that, it's 100% quest for truth and willingness to face anything that opposes that.

I will never falter, I will never truly dismay in your quest for the real

Long after ats is gone Mopus Vindictus

He who actually struck the spear

will

foerever

bind you

In your sin

Because i'm not allowed to die until you admit who I am


So curse me Kill me, deny me worship the false g-ds, they beg me for the right to even live

and only by MY grace do they

live



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by Umbra Sideralis
 


Im totally disgusted by how this type acts as thought-police and gives orders in an arrogant tone of voice.

Its called bullying. And everytime I see it henceforth, I will post that person a link to this thread.

Im not willing to put up with it anymore. Skepticism - yes. Disagreement - yes. Bullying and Ridicule: NO.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


Nice post. We will never falter in our quest for more knowledge. Ever.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:25 AM
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This discussion Forum is supposed to be a safe-haven for people who prefer to discuss out of the ordinary stuff.

Hence: No more scoffing and ridicule

Still, if I got a penny for everytime someone called me insane for entertaining the possibility of ETs or something Paranormal....



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


"one potential problem is that there's no 'who's ignoring you' list in the ATS member centre and there's no 'on thread' notification in the same way that friends and foes appear"

I'm currently lobbying for the development of just such a list.

Until then, I will continue to notify the members that have been placed on my list (as you know first-hand).... due the the constraints of the current list you have been rotated off and replaced with the alternate account of someone currently on my ignore list under another name; yet another vehement communist

[edit on 1-11-2008 by TruthTellist]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by TruthTellist
 


Im not able to put anyone on ignore (Moderator-Defaults)


[edit on 1-11-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:34 AM
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Skyfloating,since you're a forum mod could you tell me where should i post my previous question* so i can get an answer?Maybe people didn't notice my post because of my low ATS points.

*This is the question i asked:



Is ATS just a site to share stories about imaginery things,like a novel forum,to just read each other's fiction stories and have fun?



It's just that not only i can't post the reply that i wanted to do so but i'd also hate to keep wasting my time on a forum that i have no interest in. (well,if it'd be at least a RP forum things would be different
)
Other than that,imagine how emparssing it can be being in a forum that you thought it was about something else than it really is.

Thanks in advance!



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by Oceanborn
 


ATS is a Forum for discussing conspiracy-theory, cover-ups, speculative theory, the paranormal, the secret, the unknown, the scandalous.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:51 AM
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Listen i don't know if there is life out in the Universe, there could be but then again there mite not be, i don't know.

The only way that i am going to accept if there is life out there, is to see it with my own eye's or in other words ''Proof''.

You aint going know untill you get the proof. You can come one here every day and talk, talk, talk, talk and talk, you aint going to get anywhere without proof.

How can people believe without tangible proof?

Its the same with Ghosts lol!

I want the truth with proof not continuous speculation!



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:53 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply!


Anyway,in a previous post of yours you did say that you're fine with skepticism and dissagreements (offcourse civilised ones etc).So,what's the problem then?

About another thing,you said in another post:


I sometimes feel that creative minds at ATS are bullied into thinking-small. Forced into re-starting at Base 1, at "Do aliens exist or not?" This is especially difficult for people who would like to discuss Base 2, Base 3, Base 4 questions. People who have accepted the available evidence for ETs as sufficient and want to move the heck on and discuss more speculative aspects of existence.


In situations like this is where i personally i'm irritated because instead of what you said right there,there are other people who talk about things that haven't being proven as facts.It tends to make me think that the person who says that maybe wants to just misslead others.
I'm also irritated by "going too far" since it can be easily used by others to ridicule the whole idea of thinking/getting troubled/researching about things beyond our daily,simple reallity.

In the other hand,there is the section called "grey area" (if i remember well) that users can post things that are unbased etc.

***Also i forgot to comment about the "trolling behaviour".
There are also "believers" who are acting that way too ya know.Last night i was reading a thread by a user who posted a video of a UFO (they might been three though,anyway) and he/she was all like "debunkers,debunk this!!" "where are all the debunkers?!".
Could we agree that "trolls" can easily be coming from both directions? ("believers" and "skepticals")

EDIT:For errors.

EDIT No2:See: ***

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Oceanborn]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Oceanborn]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by TSOM87
 


Some say: "First proof then I believe"

Others say: "First I believe, then I get proof"

We say: Keep an open mind. Go for proof but dont be inhibited if you cant see the proof yet.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 09:08 AM
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Another great thread Skyfloating.

With everything in life, nothing is black and white. This includes this topic as well. What Skyfloating is trying to promote is the lively discussion of topics that already have enough substantial evidence littered all over the internet to merit further delving.

We can argue semantics over whether or not aliens exists all day, trust me, I see some people try to derail threads on the basis of such arguments. In some cases the skeptics of the topic have a point, in others, it just seems like trolling at the best.

What saddens me though is how much of the latter we see here on the forums nowadays, rather than the former. 2007 was a big year for ATS; along with the growth came an equal amount of 'pure skeptics'; people who seemed to register just to try and denounce every subject they came by. And it does get annoying constantly seeing these people take up pages and pages of an otherwise intellectual thought provoking thread, with their personal attacks of character on other users and, for lack of a better term I guess, trolling.

We're all skeptics though. Anytime you see me post in an 'alarmist' thread, or an 'NWO power grab' thread, I usually take the point of the Devil's Advocate opposite of the OP. Its just my opinion that anything these 'Powers that Be' try to do gain total control of the populace ultimately won't work, so I try to remind everyone reading not to get caught up in the hype and fear, and see forest for the trees.

Basically I agree with most of the points already presented in this thread. Its an important message that needs to be heard in today's ATS environment, and we could all use a bit of grounding. Again, thank you Skyfloating.

Also, everyone be on the lookout for a thread I'll be posting later today, on the very NWO topic I just spoke about. There needs to be a clearing of the air so to speak, and remind everyone who might have some reservations about this organization who and what we're really dealing with here.






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