The moronic tyranny of the "there´s no proof" crowd

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by TSOM87

 

But in most cases (and sane cases) a thread starter is not asking you to believe, but only to consider and think-about.

Yes i know that, i know that nobody is telling me to believe. I was just saying that ''I need proof to believe'' thats all!

Just trying to tell people that there nothing wrong with looking for the Proof first!

I am a firm believer. I believe that there is life out there in the universe, intelligent life, and that Earth has been visited on many occations.

I also believe that we have not been told the whole truth about what was photographed, sampled and brought back from the Moon. I think it is possible that we haven't been told the truth about Mars either. I am sure many people think my mind is so open that my brain fell out a long time ago.

But still... I will not believe anything anyone says. I will not believe any photo, video or story posted here at ATS. I reserve the right to view the different cases from as many different angles as possible. I am also willing to listen to what the skeptics have to say. (The skeptics, not the trolling, mindless debunkers who never ever back up any of their claims and only seem to come to this forum to derail threads and pick fights.)

After I have done that, and only after that, I come to a conclusion about what I think is the truth.

And what really pisses me off, is when someone tries to pull a hoax on us. I just can't stand liars. If I spot a lie, a contradiction or evidence of something not quite adding up, I think I have the right to say so.

I hope that doesn't make me a moron.

No Ziggy you aint a Moron!

This thread has showen what happens when you come out and say ''I NEED PROOF TO BELIEVE''. It has showen what happens if you don't think along the same lines as others!


When i was younger i had a friend who was relly Religious. He asked me a Question one day, he asked me ''Do you believe in God'' i answerd ''I don't know'' i said '' theres nothing out there that indicates to ME that there is a GOD'' he went CRAZY when i said that, and never spoke to me again. As you can see he went CRAZY because i never believed what he believed. I never said to him'' SHUT UP, THERES NO SUCH THING AS A GOD, YOUR CRAZY. I has allways respected his views, but he didn't respect mine!

reply to post by Skyfloating


lol, let`s all listen to the mindless babble of whatever nut walks into the forum, this place is here for things to be discussed and if an idea is absurd or just plain stupid (e.g. invisible light ships shown on goggle earth) then they deserve to be shot down. tell me OP what theory is it you`re having issues with? is this ufo or religion? they both have the same issues at the heart of it.

If people believed in everything what is written on this site we would become "mental pacients". I need the proof or at least the explanation why the person claims that the theory is correct. I can make a thread where i will claim that the santa claus is real - there's no evidence that he is or isn't.
People here want the proof or at least logical explanation for theory to be real. Too many people opened the threads like this - Aliens are real. And when some other user asks for the explanation the answer is: "They have to be real ... watch the videos on YT" and when you post hundreds pieces of evidence to debunk this theory you get the same answer . that means that the person is not open minded and will hold to his theory even if you provide an explanation for every single piece of his theory. Sorry if that's not good enough for me. I love seeing threads when people trying to speculate on number of stars and potential Earth-like planets. It's the logical explanation and person can't deny/confirm this which makes a theory possible to be true. The same thing is with all the other theories (political, conspiracy, new weapons, ..... and hundreds of others).
For every theory that person posts they have to provide an evidence. In case of abscence they can still provide a simple explanation why this theory could be true or how did they got to this.
And without debunkers ATS wouldn't be on the WWW anymore .... joke

Sorry for spelling - English isn't my first language

The knee-jerk reaction to this thread seems to be that its directed against skeptics or people who question all the nonsense posted here.

Its not.

Its about something else.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'm inclined to believe the message here is explaining why we Deny Ignorance in the first place. Its not as simple as asking for proof or asking we listen and share with open minds. It goes right the core of the moment, why we choose to think what we do when confronted with a certain situation. There are certain stigmas pushed on us by various elements of our existence here on Earth that shape our thinking before we even get the chance to question 'why?'

reply to post by Tgautier13


*sigh of relief*

Thanks for looking one layer deeper than the superficial "skeptics vs. believer" discussion.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Its not hard to look beyond the superficial once you realize almost all you experience is superficial to begin with.

Namaste

Proving an opinion is like trying to prove a negative or a feeling. It can't be done. Most that post here are pointing out opinions of feelings on what they think. If you disagree then disagree but to demand proof is futile and somewhat disengenuous. But...thats just my opinion!!!!

Zindo

Some people have to start Accepting peoples opinions and way of thinking. When someone starts a thread and says ''I Believe Aliens Are Real'', i accept that. I will ask why they believe! If someone posts a picture or video and i happen to think its ''FAKE'' i have the right to think that, but it dose not mean that its total fake end of! Its just my opinion!

I will allways Question people's claims, but i will respect them at the same time.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Proving an opinion is like trying to prove a negative or a feeling. It can't be done. Most that post here are pointing out opinions of feelings on what they think. If you disagree then disagree but to demand proof is futile and somewhat disengenuous. But...thats just my opinion!!!!

Zindo

But people can try at least provide a simple explanation why they think it's true ... You can explain how you feel, don't you? It's all that needed to start the debate when most of people don't have other explanation as YT video or "I heard from someone that it's true"

reply to post by baburak


Yes ..but can you prove your feeling on a subject??? No you can't! To demand that someone prove their feelings on a subject is frankly stupid! You either feel about a certain point in contention or you don't. That stated, if someone else feels that your feelings are wrong, they can state how they understand it but not expect you to prove your correct!

Zindo

All of this kind of response is respectful discussion, and within context, skeptics are welcome and add information. This is really more about those who label themselves as skeptics, and then become bullies who label all who have experienced something as religious fanatics to this "new phenomenon" . IE. if you are an abductee and wish to explore another's account on a thread, suddenly you are all some new religious fanatic group. Its insulting, and the insult and insinuations are deliberate and abusive. Then, they start in on repeating that you all need to see psychiatrists because you are schizos, that even when you have never had sleep paralysis in your life and your sighting is daytime, its sleep paralysis, of course forgetting that ets paralyze their targets before abductions so to make a judgment on things since their is more than one possibility is not logical. Also, you are deluded, your eyes and minds are dysfunctional and don't work. If your sighting is shared with others. Its group hysteria thats occurring. And you're a delusional fool. This is the kind of responses that are occurring in various threads now, and they're not welcome in the least. These people are bullies and they do damage to the overall atmosphere of the threads others are participating on.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 2-11-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 2-11-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by ZindoDoone

No, i can't prove my feelings . It was a bad example .... I meant that the person can provide a simple explanation on the subject or at least post why they think that the theory/video/picture is real/true. In 90% of threads related to conspiracys or other theories here OP's are claiming that what they posted is real without any explanation. And without an explanation you can't get a further debate on the subject to help others decide for them if they will believe in this. And if person claims that the "thing" is real he must have some evidence on the subject. Claiming something or just posting personal opinion are different things. When you claim something is real you must have some piece of evidence for it otherwise it's just a personal opinion which is presented as fact. And when you posting an opinion you have to provide an explanation to ensure normal debate.
I hope i didn't get too far from the original subject

[edit on 2-11-2008 by baburak]

reply to post by mystiq


I dont understand your thinking.. your trying to make us believe that you have been abducted.. or believe in it.. and I try to make you believe that it is all in your head.. what is the difference???. you happen to think your right.. and I happen to beleive Im right... its a 50/50.. pro .. con.. debate.. I just happen to believe that there is more evidence on my side of the argument.. and im sure you disagree with that.. so we can agree to disagree.. you dont have to be upset about it.. some day I might win you over.. or some day you might win me over.. (grin)..

I think some skeptics need to be consistent in labeling things possible or not possible.

They say something is not possible because there is no proof, but there also is no proof that it is impossible, so until disproven, things are still possible.

Absence of proof, is no proof of absence.

[edit on 2/11/08 by enigmania]

What they are labeling as impossible, is not impossible by the mechanisms in this universe, and in relation the disclosures of others, including militia, pilates, and scientists, its not even improbable. It is simply something that doesn't have concrete accepted proof. That they consider themselves to be either a pseudo-scientist or a psuedo-psychiatrist and make an judgment on several possible variables that could be occurring as if their judgment alone is the only rational and logical one, and thus everyone affected by the situation in question is delusional and needs medical treatment is not skepticism. Its not debunking. In fact it makes their own reasoning and inability to explore real possibilities, down the line, as a scientist would, subject to question.

reply to post by baburak


I think we are giving each other a headache debating the same principle from differing angles,LOL. You are corect though, that some reason should be stated, however convoluted it may be!

Zindo

If you honestly think you've been abducted by aliens, yes, seeing a psychiatrist would be in your best interests for a variety of reasons.