Obama's New Attack on Those Who Don't Want Higher Taxes: ‘Selfishness’

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posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Witness2008
 


That's never going to happen. I think your sense of reality about this is clouded.

Just because a politician says it will happen means nothing. Who do you think the lobbyists up in DC are? Who are the donors to campaigns and government officials?

It is not the middle-class and it isn't the poor. Politicians cover their butts first.....they dance with the ones that brought 'em.




posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Property tax in most areas of this country go towards local schools and services. Very little of it actualy goes into the general state fund. If the dept of forestry is fighting fires in California we all pay. Get it?



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Property tax in most areas of this country go towards local schools and services. Very little of it actualy goes into the general state fund. If the dept of forestry is fighting fires in California we all pay. Get it?



Um. yes, I get THAT. So why should I have to pay more for that then YOU just because I make a lot of money?



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Well if you live in the woods and I live in the desert why should I have to pay for your fire?



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Well if you live in the woods and I live in the desert why should I have to pay for your fire?


I agree with THAT. But that is not the point. The point is: Obama wants certain people to pay MORE then others for the exact same services that ALL use. That is not how it should be.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


No he is not. The majority of the tax burden is with those he wants to give some of those tax dollars back. The lower income folks. If you were to take a look at the fair tax link I left on the first page you would see my arguement. The lower classes were not written into the last tax code with all the wonderful little perks it offered the few.

The United States is a large community and I have no problem with helping fight fires ten states away but when I hear people complain about welfare to the lower classes but advocate the welfare for the richest I am left scratching my head in disbelief.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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I agree with Obama for once.

I am selfish

I don't think the IRS is legal either nor do I think I should be giving any of my money over as it is.

Obamas a fool

Leads going to fly before all is said and done.

I am capable of picking and choosing my own charities as it should be, no one has a right to what I earn unless I decide so

Seriously I'm a really humane person, you know what my problem with the poor is (technically i'm poor at the moment I just don't want any help and It wont ever last for me and it's self inflicted and I know it!)

Poor people are stupid

Taxes... for those who lack the brains

Taxes exist because No One would Give the Govt money if they didn't, People Ask ... Well how would the Government get Money then?

The answer..

It wouldn't, ever get any money

Why is that?

It's because the reality is everything they do is about power and no one just gives them money because no one likes or NEEDS them at all...

You pay from your check because the corporation, like any business gets a visit by a tax collector and gets a GUN PUT TO THEIR HEADS

That's why you pay taxes

If they don't get enough taxes...they do this,

They use the population against each other by offering some economic freedom lol for one group if it rallies against the other.

Obama will use the poor THUG the money out of the rich... FEAR

To cover inept spending, war mongering a police state, indoctrination of your own children into policies they create from bad psychology

And the Poor won't get a darn thing but some coins in return.

Which makes them stupid and all slaves in history get their by their own hands

It's always fear, if we don't have the money...we wont have an army, if we don't have an Army the

Insert bad Guys here_____________

Will kill us all!!!

and it begins

Often the taxers on one side get the taxers on the other to send Their Poor and Stupid over to the other place and actually enforce this belief

This is called War for the poor and stupid who don't get it...

So should I pay taxes, naw, I'm selfish I want to live not die the more I pay, the more poor and stupid they control to use against those who would not be ruled

so to heck with those people...

We actually started this country defending ourselves and kicked the taxers out and were doing just fine...

Until, we got pulled into wars... over seas mainly, civil war and legitimate changes in the way the world worked didn't help either

but still

what a pity how we all have forgotten

but that's okay, plenty of those who believe in taxation will get the lives they deserve, they always get what they deserve before it's all said and done.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:40 PM
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Here is a letter I received in my in-box from a friend who no doubt passed it on from a friend.

In three parts, Part one:

Mr. Obama,
Given the uproar about the simple question asked you by Joe the plumber, and the persecution that has been heaped on him because he dared to question you, I find myself motivated to say a few things to you myself. While Joe aspires to start a business someday, I already have started not one, but 4 businesses. But first, let me introduce myself. You can call me "Cory the well driller". I am a 54 year old high school graduate. I didn't go to college like you, I was too ready to go "conquer the world" when I finished high school. 25 years ago at age 29, I started my own water well drilling business at a time when the economy here in East Texas was in a tailspin from the crash of the early 80's oil boom. I didn't get any help from the government, nor did I look for any. I borrowed what I could from my sister, my uncle, and even the pawn shop and managed to scrape together a homemade drill rig and a few tools to do my first job. My businesses did not start as a result of privilege. They are the result of my personal drive, personal ambition, self discipline, self reliance, and a determination to treat my customers fairly. From the very start my business provided one other (than myself) East Texan a full time job. I couldn't afford a backhoe the first few years (something every well drilling business had), so I and my helper had to dig the mud pits that are necessary for each and every job with hand shovels. I had to use my 10 year old, 1/2 ton pickup truck for my water tank truck (normally a job for at least a 2 ton truck).



A year and a half after I started the business, I scraped together a 20% down payment to get a modest bank loan and bought a (28 year) old, worn out, slightly bigger drilling rig to allow me to drill the deeper water wells in my area. I spent the next few years drilling wells with the rig while simultaneously rebuilding it between jobs. Through these years I never knew from one month to the next if I would have any work or be able to pay the bills. I got behind on my income taxes one year, and spent the next two years paying that back (with penalty and interest) while keeping up with ongoing taxes. I got behind on my water well supply bill 2 different years (way behind the second time... $80,000.00), and spent over a year paying it back (each time) while continuing to pay for ongoing supplies C.O.D.. Of course, the personal stress endured through these experiences and years is hard to measure. I do have a stent in my heart now to memorialize it all.



I spent the next 10 years developing the reputation for being the most competent and most honest water well driller in East Texas. 2 years along the way, I hired another full time employee for the drilling business so that we could provide full time water well pump service as well as the well drilling. Also, 3 years along the path, I bought a water well screen service machine from a friend, starting business # 2. 5 years later I made a business loan for $100,000.00 to build a new, higher production, computer controlled screen service machine. I had designed the machine myself, and it didn't work out for 3 years so I had to make the loan payments without the benefit of any added income from the new machine. No government program was there to help me with the payments, or to help me sleep at night as I lay awake wondering how I would solve my machine problems or pay my bills. Finally, after 3 years, I got the screen machine working properly, and that provided another full time job for an East Texan in the screen service business.



2 years after that, I made another business loan, this time for $250,000.00, to buy another used drilling rig and all the support equipment needed to run another, larger, drill rig. This provided another 2 full time jobs for East Texans. Again, I spent a couple of years not knowing if I had made a smart move, or a move that would bankrupt me. For the third time in 13 years, I had placed everything I owned on the line, risking everything, in order to build a business.



A couple of years into this, I came up with a bright idea for a new kind of mud pump, a fundamentally necessary pump used on water well drill rigs. I spent my entire life savings to date (just $30,000.00), building a prototype of the pump and took it to the national water well convention to show it off. Customers immediately started coming out of the woodworks to buy the pumps, but there was a problem. I had depleted my assets making the prototype, and nobody would make me a business loan to start production of the new pumps. With several deposits for pump orders in hand, and nowhere to go, I finally started applying for as many credit card as I could find and took cash withdrawals on these cards to the tune of over $150,000.00 (including modest loans from my dear sister and brother), to get this 3rd business going.



Yes, once again, I had everything hanging over the line in an effort to start another business. I had never manufactured anything, and I had to design and bring into production a complex hydraulic machine from an untested prototype to a reliable production model (in six months). How many nights I lay awake wondering if I had just made the paramount mistake of my life I cannot tell you, but there were plenty. I managed to get the pumps into production, which immediately created another 2 full time jobs in East Texas. Some of the models in the first year suffered from quality issues due to the poor workmanship of one of my key suppliers, so I and an employee (another East Texan employed) had to drive across the country to repair customers' pumps, practically from coast to coast. I stood behind the product, and made payments to all the credit cards that had financed me (and my brother and sister). I spent the next 5 years improving and refining the product, building a reputation for the pump and the company, working to get the pump into drill rig manufacturers' product lines, and paying back credit cards. During all this time I continued to manage a growing water well business that was now operating 3 drill rig crews, and 2 well service crews. Also, the screen service business continued to grow. No government programs were there to help me, Mr. Obama, but that's ok, I didn't expect any, nor did I want any.

[edit on 10/31/2008 by TheRooster]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I hate taxes as much as the next guy, I look forward to a resource based economy. But in the mean time who will build the roads, the fire departments, the infrastructure we all have become dependant on? I tire of having all the responsability passed down the line, trickle down economics. As long as we have this system of taxation I would like to see it work for the little guy for once. Exxon Mobile doesn't need a ten billion dollar subsidy next year.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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Part two:

I was too busy fighting to make success happen to sit around waiting for the government to help me.

Now, we have been manufacturing the mud pumps for 7 years, my combined businesses employ 32 full time employees, and distribute $5,000,000.00 annually through the local economy. Now, just 4 months ago I borrowed $1,254,000.00, purchasing computer controlled machining equipment to start my 4th business, a production machine shop. The machine shop will serve the mud pump company so that we can better manufacture our pumps that are being shipped worldwide. Of course, the machine shop will also do work for outside companies as well. This has already produced 2 more full time jobs, and 2 more should develop out of it in the next few months. This should work out, but if it doesn't it will be because you, and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have destroyed our countrys' (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages. You see, at the very time when I couldn't get a business loan to get my mud pumps into production, you were working with Acorn and the Community Reinvestment Act programs to make sure that unqualified borrowers could buy homes with no down payment, and even no credit or worse yet, bad credit. Even the infamous, liberal, Ninja loans (No Income, No Job or Assets). While these unqualified borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to 24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It's funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you and your ilk have perpetrated on our country.

You see, Mr. Obama, I'm the guy you intend to raise taxes on. I'm the guy who has spent 25 years toiling and sweating, fretting and fighting, stressing and risking, to build a business and get ahead. I'm the guy who has been on the very edge of bankruptcy more than a dozen times over the last 25 years, and all the while creating more and more jobs for East Texans who didn't want to take a risk, and would not demand from themselves what I have demanded from myself. I'm the guy you characterize as "the Americans who can afford it the most" that you believe should be taxed more to provide income redistribution "to spread the wealth" to those who have never toiled, sweat, fretted, fought, stressed, or risked anything. You want to characterize me as someone who has enjoyed a life of privilege and who needs to pay a higher percentage of my income than those who have bought into your entitlement culture. I resent you, Mr. Obama, as I resent all who want to use class warfare as a tool to advance their political career. What's worse, each year more Americans buy into your liberal entitlement culture, and turn to the government for their hope of a better life instead of themselves. Liberals are succeeding through more than 40 years of collaborative effort between the predominant liberal media, and liberal indoctrination programs in the public school systems across our land.

What is so terribly sad about this is this. America was made great by people who embraced the one-time American culture of self reliance, self motivation, self determination, self discipline, personal betterment, hard work, risk taking. A culture built around the concept that success was in reach of every able bodied American who would strive for it. Each year that less Americans embrace that culture, we all descend together. We descend down the socialist path that has brought country after country ultimately to bitter and unremarkable states. If you and your liberal comrades in the media and school systems would spend half as much effort cultivating a culture of can-do across America as you do cultivating your entitlement culture, we could see Americans at large embracing the conviction that they can elevate themselves through personal betterment, personal achievement, and self reliance. You see, when people embrace such ideals, they act on them. When people act on such ideals, they succeed. All of America could find herself elevating instead of deteriorating. But that would eliminate the need for liberal politicians, wouldn't it, Mr. Obama? The country would not need you if the country was convinced that problem solving was best left with individuals instead of the government. You and all your liberal comrades have got a vested interested in creating a dependent class in our country. It is the very business of liberals to create an ever expanding dependence on government. What's remarkable is that you, who have never produced a job in your life, are going to tax me to take more of my money and give it to people who wouldn't need my money if they would get off their entitlement mentality asses and apply themselves at work, demand more from themselves, and quit looking to liberal politicians to raise their station in life.

You see, I know because I've had them work for me before. Hundreds of them over these 25 years. People who simply will not show up to work on time. People who just will not work 5 days in a week, much less, 6 days. People always looking for a way to put less effort out. People who actually tell me that they would do more if I just would first pay them more. People who take off work to sit in government offices to apply to get free government handouts (gee, I wonder how things would have turned out for them if they had spent that time earning money and pleasing their employer?). You see, all of this comes from your entitlement mentality culture.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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Part 3:

Oh, I know you will say I am not compassionate. Sorry, Mr. Obama, wrong again. You see, I've seen what the average percentage of your income has been given to charities over the years of 2000 to 2004 (ignoring the years you started running for office - can you pronounce "politically motivated"), you averaged less than 1% annually. And your running mate, Joe Biden, averaged less than ¼% of his annual income in charitable contributions over the last 10 years. Like so many liberals, the two of you want to give to the needy, just as long as it is someone else's money you are giving to them. I won't say what I have given to charities over the last 25 years, but the percentage is several times more than you and Joe Biden. combined (don't you just hate Google?). Tell me again how you feel my pain.



In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is wrong with our country. You represent the culture of government dependence instead of self reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated; Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate. If you are successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their problems. Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.



God help us...



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by TheRooster
 


Nice story..a hard worker. I myself run two businesses all started with my own hard work and they both live on with hard work. So why should my tax burden be greater than let's say Halliburton?



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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If ten men go into an apple orchard and their all hungy, they all start picking from the low branches and eating. but pretty soon, the lower easy limbs are starting to have less fruit. So one guy gets an idea, and makes a ladder. Now he can pick all those juicy apples further up the trees.

Now he can't hold the ladder steady, so he tells some of the other guys, if you help me, I'll pay you one apple out of a hundred to hold the ladder. Pretty soon he has a bank full of apples, the best ladder ever made, fine gloves to do the work, and he's king of the orchard.

But the guys on the ground, holding his ladder and carrying his apples to storage have a problem. That one apple doesn't feed them enough to be strong holding the ladder AND feed their family. So they want more of a cut of the apples, say two out of a hundred.

But Mr. King says that's socialism, how dare they want part of what he earned by being smart enough to build a ladder, and then getting a pattent on it so no one else can have a ladder. After all, if they would only pay him a thousand apples he would let them have a pattent on a ladder for themselves.

So what should all those people on the ground do? Kill their wife and kids so they can save apples to buy his ladder scheme, or rebel and say a full belly for all, seasoned with a touch of socialism, is better than killing everything we're part of this apple picking project for in the first place?

This election we're faced with hiring a hitman to make MR King share more apples or a policeman to protect Mr Kings "right" to more apples than he can ever eat.

I know where I stand.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by TheFreeBird
 


Why don't they just stop holding his ladder and level the playing field? Or better yet, get a long stick with a basket on the end, and pick from the ground? Then, nobody has to hold a ladder for anybody. Or do you buy into the premise the people holding the ladder are oppressed?



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by TheFreeBird
 


Why cant the other guys just build their own ladder, picks some apples and provide for their family.

This story just doesnt work. Too many factors, too many possibilities, etc.


[edit on 10/31/2008 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by TheFreeBird
 


That was an exceptional analogy, you said what my frustrations would not allow me to say.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by TheRooster
 


Or we could have a revolution and just chop down all the trees and everyone gets all the apples they can carry.

Oh, wait, what about next years crops?

And yes, is there a doubt that the oil companies are oppressive? While we were paying $4.00 a gallon they were raking in cash like a hooker at a seaport. But unlike with hookers, we didn't even have a smile when it was being done to us.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by TheRooster
 


I have an idea. Why don't you and greeneyedleo pick your own apples with your own ladders. Then the next day build your own houses, and cars then pave your own roads, fight your own fires. You'll also have to take your chances on those airplains and trains...safety issues and all. Then those of us who do not mind paying our fair share of taxes for having the opportunity to live in a stable society will have more to go around.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Mr King already has that ladder pattent sowed up tight. How many relatives do you need to starve to be able to afford an oil company (Ladder) of your own? The way capitolism works in this day and age, it's easier to hit the lottery and get rich than it is to make it by starting out poor and doing it with just hard work, because The House has all the odds stacked in there favor.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by TheRooster
 


I have an idea. Why don't you and greeneyedleo pick your own apples with your own ladders. Then the next day build your own houses, and cars then pave your own roads, fight your own fires. You'll also have to take your chances on those airplains and trains...safety issues and all. Then those of us who do not mind paying our fair share of taxes for having the opportunity to live in a stable society will have more to go around.



Um. ok then

I never ever have said I have issues with paying taxes. NEVER. You are making things up!!!


I should NOT have to pay MORE taxes then YOU, based on my income. Period.

Im done arguing with trolls. IGNORANCE denied!





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