SKEPTICS.Dont just sit and say no.

This is my first thread so I thought I would jump straight in with a challenge.

To all the skeptics out there,I ask for you to do a couple of simple tests.
It would help you to know abit more of why there isnt the evidence YOU would want but may also make you a little less eager to just jump in with a NO.
Its the start of the weekend so over the weekend here is what I challenge you to do.

1.If you have a clear night,go and look at the stars.Get to know the sky abit better.

2.Observe the flight paths of planes and helicopters.Noticing the height,distance etc.

3.With either a video cam or cell phone cam,tape plane etc from different angles and distances.

4.Analyze what you have recorded and then compare with some footage you may have seen on video sites.

5.If you do see something still be skeptical but think about first before dismissing.

Even if you're not a skeptic maybe you could do this aswell.It would be interesting on what your experience was.
And before its asked YES i am going out over the weekend with my partner to do some looking up.We do quite often.Being in love and under the stars together is off the subject so will finish here.

I look forward to your replies.Im not a big debater so dont expect one but I will be polite and respond as best to all as I can.Apologese now if I dont.Just let me know.
Im off out with my daughter so wont be replying until later this evening.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Interesting, a similar (but different) thread showed up a while ago:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is a good idea, when encountering something unusual, to look for explanations that fit known phenomena. Often, when someone sees something outside of their personal experience it can turn out to be something quite prosaic. Most (not all) of the skeptics here on ATS will offer possibilities rather than dismissals.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by Phage]

Id suggest in order to be taken seriously they get to know the subject matter. Theres a wealth of material, documentaries, interviews, statements, a veritable mountain in fact which every skeptic should first be willing to see.

You cannot argue a thesis without knowing the antithesis. In order to understand something, you have to know it intimately first.

reply to post by gallifreyan medic


What do you class as a skeptic? One who simply denies the existence of UFOs, or one who will not simply accept everything that is posted on these boards and declared as fact?

I consider myself a skeptic. That does not mean that I dismiss everything I read or see instantly, or at all. Indeed, if I did dismiss everything, then what would be the point of even reading a post that professes evidence of UFOs?

I believe in the existence of unidentified flying objects/unexplained aerial phenomena because they are seen regularly, and have been observed historically. What is there to deny? Something is up there. I even have a theory as to the provenance of some of these sightings, but have no solid evidence to back it up.

But what I won’t do is latch onto every blurry video or manipulated photograph as corroborative evidence for my beliefs, because more often than not the evidence we get is completely inconclusive. Often, even if unidentified, many films etc are of great interest, but that is all. Threads that offer ABSOLUTE PROOF OF ALIENS invariably end up being another misidentification/hoax etc. And more often than not, that’s what we get; conclusions jumped to because they fit our own personal beliefs.
But we so need to believe that anyone who stands up and says ‘Err, that might well be a chinese lantern/satellite/blimp’ etc is automatically branded a “denier”.

I want conclusive proof, not suggestion or intimation as to what I might be looking at, and there’s nothing wrong with that, is there?

You have to remove the chaff before the wheat is available. Remember what Arthur Conan Doyle had Mr Holmes say; when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
No ufologist in their right mind will simply deny everything that is presented as potential evidence. If they do, and it pains me to say it, they their motives have to be questioned. But we all know that there isn’t absolute, bullet-proof, concrete evidence available…yet.

And two things:

How do you correctly measure distance and height of an aircraft?

Welcome to ATS.

reply to post by Phage


Hi Phage.
Thank you for the reply and pointing that thread out for me.

reply to post by silver6ix


Hi silver6ix.

Glad to have you write on this thread.I have watched your endevour with those in the skeptic community for a while now.More recently with Gandalf and Mopusvindictus on cbasss Bushs possible,but true alien war thread.
I look forward to reading more of your replies here on ATS as you defend the for corner well,even against the no proof will ever do few.

reply to post by gallifreyan medic


Why can't the believers do the same challenge?

I see youtube videos that get posted on these forums that someone has found, they're not their own but just because the title of the youtube video says OMG TEH ALIUNS! they seem to believe it.

So why don't you believers get out there yourselves? You might get the footage we've all been waiting for.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Maybe because they arent the ones who need convincing.

Theres plenty of information out there since the beginning of civilization until right now, if you choose not to bother looking for it then its because you dont want to.

Its not a believers job to do your research for you, thats something you need to do for yourself. If you dont know the subject then you dont really have a concrete position for any kind of belief or disbelief.

Originally posted by Beamish
reply to post by gallifreyan medic

 

What do you class as a skeptic? One who simply denies the existence of UFOs, or one who will not simply accept everything that is posted on these boards and declared as fact?

I consider myself a skeptic. That does not mean that I dismiss everything I read or see instantly, or at all. Indeed, if I did dismiss everything, then what would be the point of even reading a post that professes evidence of UFOs?

I believe in the existence of unidentified flying objects/unexplained aerial phenomena because they are seen regularly, and have been observed historically. What is there to deny? Something is up there. I even have a theory as to the provenance of some of these sightings, but have no solid evidence to back it up.

But what I won’t do is latch onto every blurry video or manipulated photograph as corroborative evidence for my beliefs, because more often than not the evidence we get is completely inconclusive. Often, even if unidentified, many films etc are of great interest, but that is all. Threads that offer ABSOLUTE PROOF OF ALIENS invariably end up being another misidentification/hoax etc. And more often than not, that’s what we get; conclusions jumped to because they fit our own personal beliefs.
But we so need to believe that anyone who stands up and says ‘Err, that might well be a chinese lantern/satellite/blimp’ etc is automatically branded a “denier”.

I want conclusive proof, not suggestion or intimation as to what I might be looking at, and there’s nothing wrong with that, is there?

You have to remove the chaff before the wheat is available. Remember what Arthur Conan Doyle had Mr Holmes say; when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
No ufologist in their right mind will simply deny everything that is presented as potential evidence. If they do, and it pains me to say it, they their motives have to be questioned. But we all know that there isn’t absolute, bullet-proof, concrete evidence available…yet.

And two things:

How do you correctly measure distance and height of an aircraft?

Welcome to ATS.

Well doing something like I have mentioned will give you some idea of how you can know of what you do and do not see.Its so simple athing to do but yet so many dont.I used to live in south london on the 5th floor of a five story building.I could see for miles way down into a county called Kent.I did learn of the flight paths of planes from which I could see coming in while still over the sea.Height being the reason(Not the knowing of what the height was).What it comes down to it for all who see the real thing(UFO) it is the knowing it is the real thing(UFO) as you do when you see a plane you know you've seen a plane etc .
Yes there are many misidentifications that from not knowing how some aircraft look from far off but not all are aircraft.That being from the unconventional shape or light colour/pattern.
As for the close up seeing of objects by numerous witnesses.It amazes me how a skeptic can pass it off so easily?Common sense(Sadly seems to be something some skeptics dont have.My opinion from those I have met not a generalization before anyone asks).If to allow one person be taken serious if witness to a crime then many a witness to a sighting cant be dismissed surely.(No airplane jokes thank you)

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by gallifreyan medic

 

Why can't the believers do the same challenge?

I see youtube videos that get posted on these forums that someone has found, they're not their own but just because the title of the youtube video says OMG TEH ALIUNS! they seem to believe it.

So why don't you believers get out there yourselves? You might get the footage we've all been waiting for.

Alot of believers im sure do do it.I would hope believers who havent done before would do it.But are you also saying that being a skeptic,just leave it to the believers to do?
Doesnt that just show the lazy skeptic?Unwilling to find out when can just sit and say No?

reply to post by gallifreyan medic


I have done it many times, and I have always tried (and I still do it) to reproduce all the situations I can.

That was I said in this thread that they looked like aeroplanes, and that I said in all threads related to the STS "te ther incident" that those objects look like small objects close to the camera, I have seen many times aeroplanes flying in the same way and looking like those on the first case and I have made an experiment to see if I could recreate an effect similar to that of the objects in the "tether incident" video.

And I also think that all people that have an interest in any subject (in this case UFOs) should try to have all the information available and that they should try for themselves to see if something can be easily explained or not.

And no, sceptics do not say "no", that say "what proof do you have?"

reply to post by Beamish


Well stated.

I even have a theory as to the provenance of some of these sightings, but have no solid evidence to back it up.

Could I ask what the theory may be?

reply to post by ArMaP


Im sure with the tether incident it can be replicated for one or several light anomolies.But can you do the rush hour frenzy of the big and small objects,with some pulsing.And the other activity that did occur?
Just turning the prove it over to yourside.Show me the proof that it wasnt.One light doesnt count.
OMG Im being skeptical.No offense meant.

Originally posted by gallifreyan medic
But can you do the rush hour frenzy of the big and small objects,with some pulsing.

No, I am still trying to think of a way of doing with without a target several nautical miles away, all my experiments are limited by my environment, and living in an apartment is not the best environment to make this type of experiment.

And the other activity that did occur?

What other activity?

Show me the proof that it wasnt.

I can not show proof of what things are not, I can only show that other things look like that.

Can you prove they were not tiny ATS members with tin foil hats dancing around the shuttle?

OMG Im being skeptical.No offense meant.

Scepticism is a natural reaction, if we accept everything we see without making questions about I think the human race would have disappeared long ago.

reply to post by SkepticalSteve


Thank you. As to my pet theory, well, that is probably best left for a thread at some future point.

To begin discussing our own beliefs would derail this thread somewhat.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by gallifreyan medic
But can you do the rush hour frenzy of the big and small objects,with some pulsing.

No, I am still trying to think of a way of doing with without a target several nautical miles away, all my experiments are limited by my environment, and living in an apartment is not the best environment to make this type of experiment.

I have the greatest respect for you in your doing the experiments.Pro active in proving/disproving is how it should be.Unfortunately in both some take the easy way of yes there is or no there isnt without bothering to do some researching.

And the other activity that did occur?

What other activity?

Well with all that was going on within the footage.Hard to count how many in total.Fast/slow moving objects.Appearing/Disappearing,all going on at the same time,I mean that as the other activity aswell as mentioned.

reply to post by Beamish


I hope within this thread people can speak of there beliefs.Bringing sensible debate with the respecting of anothers belief without decending to a school playground level.
With interest I look forward to your future thread.

I am not skeptical that something is going on... I am skeptical as far as ppl calling every sighting of something "different" in the sky a UFO sighting.

I am an avid sky watcher. I have seen MANY things up there that others on here and elsewhere describe as UFO's yet I can assure you that they are not.

Satellites do more than ppl give them credit for as do meteors. If there is a rational explanation, then why jump to the conclusion that a sighting is anything but the rational explanation?

Out of all the "weird" things I have seen, the number of unexplainable things I have seen is up to a whopping ZERO. Again, I would venture a guess that I am watching more than the majority on here (to the point that I even have the flight patterns down pat)... I just am not watching with a specific agenda other than to enjoy the beauty that we have been given as a gift.

reply to post by justamomma


I do agree that alot of what is so called evidence isnt.But that said I think there is good evidence out there but know matter what it seems skeptics just cry the usual hoax,CGI and the rest of the throw away reasons to not even bother looking more into.
I believe to be able to dismiss you have had to have put in the work of learning the dynamics of the sky and of aircraft patterns.I have over the years and know that what I have seen was the real deal.Once on my own so I never refer to that,as thats a skeptics favourite.Also with witnesses whom did know what they did see as was of a distance where its identity could not be in doubt(UFO-Military or ET).
If you see a plane then some else says no you didnt.You know you did and your senses and feelings know you did.It is the same with seeing a UFO.

I've got my avatar sorted at last.
I think the handbook advice on how to needs re doing.Adding that certain parts of a link to be removed before it will work.