Hey from Saudi Arabia

reply to post by Majorion


Welcome aboard! Hope you enjoy your stay!!!

Anyways, I am a Muslim..not religious by anymeans though LOL.

But I have researched and read the Quraan, and that's where Jinn are mentioned.

There is a chapter(surah) called Al-Jinn that tells a story about these beings that are made of fire or flame and it is clear from the story that these beings exist on Earth and have the ability to travel the heavens(space/cosmos).

Jinn actually translates into: Hidden/Invisible/Concealed and so on.

I could go, but maybe someone wants to ask me a question.

OK, I'll go on anyways LOL .. that's if anyone's actually reading this now.

Even though the Jinn theory may be true, I tend to take the scientific approach due to it's higher credibility and acceptance in the world community, or ATS community for that matter.

I believe that there exists beings on this Earth that have been here for hundreds if not thousands of years.

When we look at UFO/alien history, we find carvings and drawings in the oldest of caves where there are portraits of other worldly beings. And paintings dating back centuries old that portray a religious figure in relation to a spacecraft or UFO looking objects.

And when we look at more modern evidence, there also seems to be something out of the norm concerning UFOs, something paranormal. Like the Rendelsham forest case..that one is my favorite UFO case.

Anyways, I'm getting really tired guys.. it's morning where I live(stayed up all night)..so, if someone doesn't reply in time then I'll just hit the sack.

reply to post by Majorion


I'm really excited to see someone talking of the Jinn! Having read parts of the Koran myself, I find them intriguing!

Majorion, do you think the Jinn are related in anyway to Egypt, the Pyramids etc. I certainly believe there may be an 'ET' connection somewhere - and the Jinn were around at the same time in history... I don't know, just a thought.

Are they indigenous to Earth but have celestial abilities or are they from somewhere else?

Is there any scripture as to their origin and purpose?

Do they require technology such as a craft (UFO) or are they themselves the UFO's?

Alternatively, could a nuts & bolts UFO shining in the night have been perceived by a simple people as the 'being' themselves?

IRM

Welcome to ATS... enjoy the dream.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by Majorion

 

I'm really excited to see someone talking of the Jinn! Having read parts of the Koran myself, I find them intriguing!

Majorion, do you think the Jinn are related in anyway to Egypt, the Pyramids etc. I certainly believe there may be an 'ET' connection somewhere - and the Jinn were around at the same time in history... I don't know, just a thought.

Are they indigenous to Earth but have celestial abilities or are they from somewhere else?

Is there any scripture as to their origin and purpose?

Do they require technology such as a craft (UFO) or are they themselves the UFO's?

Alternatively, could a nuts & bolts UFO shining in the night have been perceived by a simple people as the 'being' themselves?

IRM

All of your questions are excellent yet a bit complex in full explanation. So I will try to reply as quickly as I can to each question.

If the Jinn notion is to be believed, then yes... they apparently have been involved with every civilization in history... so I won't count out the Egyptians.

It is not clear if they are from somewhere else, as they're physical origins aren't mentioned. But from a spiritual sense, they seem to have originated from the same source as us(God). Indigenous to Earth? I would say yes, but I'm not sure if they originated from Earth.

What I mean by indigenous is that they have been part of the human civilization from the beginning of our history as far as I know and they are very accustomed to our planet. They may even date back farther than us in terms of evolution. Celestial they are indeed, as it is clearly mentioned in Surah Al-Jinn that they have the ability to ascend into the heavens(travel in space).

As for the scripture relating to their purpose... in the Quran it is mentioned that they were created for the same purpose as us.. and I will cite a famous verse from the Quran explaining our(humans and jinn) purpose.

"And I didn't create Al-Jinn and Al-Ins(humans) except for them to worship".

Now that verse can be interpreted in many ways.

Now when it comes to them being a craft or if they built this UFO technology... I don't know. It seems there are accounts of both explanations in UFOlogy. The Quran doesn't mention what exactly they look like.

I hope I was helpful

[edit on 31/10/08 by Majorion]

From the sighting I had... It seemed like they were a craft and being at the same time. Whatever they are, they aren't exactly like us. Perhaps they are interdimensional or something... that hypothesis has certainly been brought up in the UFO community.

Anyways, just a little bit of personal opinion.

Edit to add: Oh yeah, I forgot... Yes, the Jinn may have built the pyramids assuming they are REAL beings and that their story is true. Till this day Archeologists and Scientists are yet to figure out how the pyramids were actually built.

[edit on 31/10/08 by Majorion]

Originally posted by Majorion

As for the scripture relating to their purpose... in the Quran it is mentioned that they were created for the same purpose as us.. and I will cite a famous verse from the Quran explaining our(humans and jinn) purpose.

"And I didn't create Al-Jinn and Al-Ins(humans) except for them to worship".

Now that verse can be interpreted in many ways.

That's very interesting!

What is the etymology of "Jinn" & "Ins" and how are they relative or different from one another?

Are Jinn similar to "Angels" in Christianity in that they serve the one God, or are of God.. but not humans or Gods?

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Actually, I wouldn't know what the history and origin of these words are but I think that these names(Ins and Jinn) were chosen because they are descriptions of these beings.

E.G: Ins or Insaan means something like [forgetful, quick to forget].
And I told you that Jinn means [Hidden, concealed, invisible and so on].

You ask how they(jinn and ins) differ from one another and/or how they are relative to one another...

The only clear difference that God points out in the Quraan is that we were created from clay and that they were created from flame or fire. As for relativity.. well, it's quite clear that we are all on the same page in the Quraan in terms of worship and all... it is mentioned that they too will be judged.. and that there Jinns who are good and those that are bad and so on...

There is a clear distinction between Jinn, and Angels... Jinn and Angels are both mentioned as seperate beings in the Quraan.. Actually it says that angels were created from light, and that they are God's servants. As for Jinn,,, the Quran put's them in the same category as us.. like I said before.

As for the fallen angel theory,, Supposedly.. Satan(Iblees) was an angel before he became a devil. He became a devil because he disobeyed God and was therefore lowered in creation(or something). Sorta like a soldier getting stripped of his high rank, do you understand what I mean?...
And then he was banished from heaven. Apparently, Satan's job is to decieve and/or manipulate mankind into disbelieving and committing sins and so on...I personally don't know what to think of that idealogy.

I hope I've answered your questions well...feel free to ask me anything else if you like. If I haven't answered any of your questions then please try and rephrase that particular question.

Thank you.

By the way, most Muslims believe that there really are creatures called Jinn,, the problem is.. everyone differs on what they are and their relativity to us.

In my community,, Jinn are sometimes percieved as devils or something of that nature..and some percieve them as existent but non-indentifiable and/or unlikely that one is to see them. And some believe that it is impossible to see them. And some people, just don't care.

Sometimes we got people here that think they are being manipulated by jinns..and these people usually have mental health problems(schizoprehenia).

But there are few of these people around. I've never actually met a person who claims to harbor a jinni in his body.

Many believe that they can't be seen because they choose to live in deserted areas(hence my sighting).. I too am of that belief... that if they do exist.. they certainly don't like to come in contact with us too often for some reason.

Anyways, im my humble opinion... I am not one of those people who thinks Jinn can be summoned via citations/wigi boards and stuff like that, as we see in some movies. So you really shouldn't find a difficulty in sleeping at night .. because I don't think that they are in any of our houses, nor do they care about lurking in one's bedroom at night...lol

Welcome aboard Maj!!

I like your honesty over collecting some points here on the ATS forums..
Sounds as if you are going to be a lot of fun to hear from on the boards, and by the way "Here's some point's!!" LOL

Enjoy the UFO forum and get some more points by adding your two cents!!
But do it honestly and cordially, we don't need anymore trolls or hoaxer's in this Forum!!

Allred5923

reply to post by Majorion


I find it all very interesting majorion!

I guess the only thing I still can't get my head around is Gods 'need' for the Jinn when he has humans to worship him. I'm of the belief that everything has a purpose/reason for being here but it's still not clear what the Jinns purpose is.

I can understand the 'need' for animals etc as we have to eat - but the Jinn are a real mystery!

Thanks for all the info so far mate! Much appreciated! I may have to delve into this further myself. I'm fascinated!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan



I hope you don't delve too deep in to this subject... in fact as a Muslim and as a believer of this stuff, I still strongly advise you not to get in to this stuff from a believing point of view.

I try to look at this Jinn stuff from a mostly scientific point of view. I try not to take any of this information and idealogy at face value, even though it may be completely true.

You seem like a very intelligent person either way, but you do understand my cautions don't you?

Anyways, regarding the notion that God "needs" us to worship him,, I completely disagree with that by the way. Certainly if there was a creator of this incredible and vast universe then he wouldn't really "need" anything from us would he?

The Quraan does not preach that notion. I just wished to make that clear, you probably know that anyway but I still just wanted to clarify that point.
Also when God says: "And I didn't create Al-Jinn and Al-Ins except for them to worship"

I told you that that verse can be interpreted in many ways.

I am not of the belief that he is referring to himself. He never said in that verse that our purpose was to worship "him". The verse only says that our purpose is ... to worship.

I know I've been nitpicking alot and stuff InfraRedMan, but you must understand that I have seen many people who kinda lost their mind when getting introduced to Islam and the Quraan. That's why I worry.

Always remember that there are many interpretations and explanations for anything and everything. So if you read a particular translation of the Quraan, then it's only one possible interpretation of the author who translated it(most likely a Sunni perspective). As for myself, well.. I have read it in it's original language.. thus, my own translation has been somewhat introduced here.

I'll be glad to read any more questions from you or anyone else here. Thanks for keeping an open mind. Peace.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by solarstorm]

reply to post by solarstorm


I'm sorry, were you trying to say something solarstorm? please post again.

Interesting stuff about the Jinn, I'd love to hear more.

Also I've heard from a few people that the Quran has a few bits that seem to link to Aliens/UFOs in some way. One I heard was that Adam (same as Christian Adam) came here from somewhere else, or was created off the planet, I'm not sure but it sounded more interesting than the Christian version. I'd love to hear about any of the more 'ATS-material' in the Quran, as this site is pretty dominated by the Christian views.

Personally I'm nearly atheist (not to the point of belief though), but have read the Christian bible, and some Hindu works a few times each, in part because they make an interesting read on their own, but also to understand better the books, as so many people across the world live their life by them, they are pretty important.

reply to post by gullychief

The idea that Adam may have come from another planet is certainly plausible as the Quran mentions that Adam and Eve were once in heaven or part of it and as a result of eating from the forbidden tree(disobedience) they were banished from heaven/paradise on to Earth.

There is actually a name for the specific "heaven" that they inhabited and it was called Al-Firdous which translates in to Paradise.

I think that this place(Al-Firdous) may be a planet and that heaven may be a collection of planets that are far more lush, green and enjoyable than Earth is. Personally, I find the notion of Adam and Eve on another planet more convincing than that of a traditional sense heaven.

I believe that the Jinn references and stories are the Quraan's acknowledgment of extraterrestrial existence and presence on Earth.

Anyhow, I'm really enjoying having this discussion here with you guys... I'm not really the type that likes to bring this kind of stuff up in another thread in the UFO board or something. As it stands...this is the only thread I have started on ATS and I don't plan on starting any other thread on ATS for the time being atleast. So if you guys have anymore questions... by all means, please feel free to me ask anything here. Peace

[edit on 1/11/08 by Majorion]

reply to post by Majorion


It's interesting that you entertain the possibility that 'Heaven" may be a physical location, such as another planet in contrast to Earth or a 'Spiritual Location". Is it also possible using that method of though, that 'God' may also be of a physical nature (as we understand it) as opposed to that of a 'Spiritual' nature.

Not that I 100% believe the stories of Zacharia Sitchin, but something in that vein where our creators may be advanced 'humanoids' from another part of the Galaxy.

Regarding the Jinn - I always look at all stories from a purely scientific perspective but in saying that I would never totally dismiss the alternatives out of hand. Science still has much to learn being the evolving methodology that it is.

I hope were not boring you with all these Quran questions but it does have some interesting ET related accounts in it.

I remember seeing a documentary that covered a story about Mohammad using some type of 'flying machine' though I don't remember it's correct term (apologies). I think the story went that he traveled a great distance in a short amount of time (perhaps over night) from one city to another using this 'craft'.

In this documentary, the 'experts' believed that it would have been impossible to travel such a distance by any other means in the time provided unless it was some type of airship or 'UFO'.

Can you shed more light on this story from the Quran?

Also, as an additional 'cultural' question, where do you think the fables of 'flying carpets comes from? Could this also be a metaphor for a UFO or some type of flying technology that couldn't be totally understood using the knowledge of the day?

Cheers Mate,
IRM


[edit on 4/11/08 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by InfaRedMan

It's interesting that you entertain the possibility that 'Heaven" may be a physical location, such as another planet in contrast to Earth or a 'Spiritual Location". Is it also possible using that method of though, that 'God' may also be of a physical nature (as we understand it) as opposed to that of a 'Spiritual' nature. And since Science lacks in understanding the universe, then it is also true that we would probably know nothing about our creator and what he may be like.

Perhaps we are genetically engineered specimens of some alien race, that is possible. But I find it more plausible that our creator may be the same one who created the universe. The one thing that I believe for certain that differentiates me from an Athiest is that I believe that there has to be an architect behind this massive and complex universe, hence.. I'm a Muslim.

Not that I 100% believe the stories of Zacharia Sitchin, but something in that vein where our creators may be advanced 'humanoids' from another part of the Galaxy.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with Zacharia Sitchin.

I hope were not boring you with all these Quran questions but it does have some interesting ET related accounts in it.

Not at all, you are not boring me.. I probably find this discussion more interesting than you do

I remember seeing a documentary that covered a story about Mohammad using some type of 'flying machine' though I don't remember it's correct term (apologies). I think the story went that he traveled a great distance in a short amount of time (perhaps over night) from one city to another using this 'craft'.

Yes, this story is true and pretty much as accurate as you describe it. Mohammad's story of ascending the heavens is very intriguing when related to UFO's and ET's. Some western scholars of Islam hold that the oldest Muslim tradition identified the journey as one traveled through the heavens from the sacred enclosure at Mecca to the celestial Kaʿba (heavenly prototype of the Kaʿba); but later tradition identified Muhammad's journey from Mecca to the abode of sanctuary (bayt al-maqdis) in Jerusalem.

Either way, his method of travel was the interesting part. I cannot discount the UFO technology theory. Seems a better explanation than any other.

As the story goes, it was Gabriel(Angel) who helped Mohammad accomplish this task. Maybe Gabriel and other angels can be explained as ET if we were ever actually able to see them. Perhaps they are physical in form and not in the spiritual sense. UFO's may be the method of travel.

Also, as an additional 'cultural' question, where do you think the fables of 'flying carpets comes from? Could this also be a metaphor for a UFO or some type of flying technology that couldn't be totally understood using the knowledge of the day?

This may surprise you, but in Islam and the Middle East there is no fable of Flying Carpets. I don't know where that fable came from. It appears to be a popular myth when associated with Arabs and Islam, I think it's only popular in the west and other places. Perhaps this myth is associated with Indians.. I don't really know. The metaphor of UFO's may explain the origin of this... I agree that if people were to see UFO's and if they didn't have the knowledge of the day back then, then they would probably think it was a sky god, or a flying carpet, or a fire serpent etc....


Cheers Infrared

reply to post by Majorion


Thanks for those answers Majorion! Very interesting!

Though I was born a 'Christian' so to speak, I am an Agnostic. I like to keep myself open to teachings from all different beliefs and religions as I find many fascinating aspects in all of them.. even non religions such as Shamanism, Buddhism, Taoism and so on. Especially the historical elements.

I do believe in a 'God' or universal creator. An all encompassing one - but far more grand & mysterious than we humans can yet fathom. I think the important thing is that I live a good, simple life without excess & try to help others wherever possible.

I remember when I was a young boy in grade school, the catholic priests and nuns used to come to our school to give religious instruction. Because I was Christened as 'Church of England' we were kicked out of the classroom and forced to sit in a breezy hallway with the troublemakers.

Nice huh! It lead me to question very young why they didn't practice the acceptance of others that they preach.

So since then, I was forced to search for my own answers in life. I have good friends of all faiths - Muslims, Jews, Christians, Greek Orthodox etc. I guess that's one of the great things about Australia!

There are so many cultures that make our society a successful one. One weekend you can go to the Greek Festival, the next week it may be the Indian Festival of Lights and the week after that it may be Chilean Independence Day... and so on.

It's a great opportunity to learn from each other and celebrate our uniqueness as well as the things we share in common.

Tell me a bit about your experiences growing up in Saudi Arabia.

IRM