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Berg to file Emergency Ruling with Surpreme Court

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posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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Insanity. Back to facts, guys and gals.

His father was a citizen of Kenya and his mother was a citizen of the U.S.

If he were born in Kenya, it's my understanding he has until 21 to declare his citizenship in the U.S. to be considered "natural-born" by constitutional standards.

If he were born in Hawaii, it's case closed. One American parent and born on American soil ends the argument by any means.

The Hawaii DOH verified his vault certificate is on file and meets citizenship requirements, this is not enough? I don't get this.

This in and of itself meets the constitutional requirements for being President, without the need for the candidate to specifically release his birth certificate. This is, at the very least, the administration of an Republican official verifying the citizenship status of the Democratic candidate. At most it's an official state agency reporting that everything is indeed in order as it pertains to the citizenship of the Presidential front-runner.

Please explain why this does not end the argument right there?

There's the piffle about hiding something, because it would seem that the logic is that if you have nothing to hide why not release it? That sounds an awful lot like "If he wasn't guilty he wouldn't have been running from the police." At the very least it's intellectually dishonest to espouse the truly conservative virtues of individual liberties and personal freedoms when one cannot honor those same virtues in an opponent.

Furthermore, Berg's very lawsuit is ill-constructed in that it names the DNC as a party for the nomination itself. If I recall my college civics correctly, a political party can nominate and run a water-buffalo if they so desire, however if the buffalo wins it cannot assume the office of President.




posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 


I'll remember that.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 


Yeah I think this is the reason the Obamanoids like area 51 gets so angry. I think it's because even the Obamanoids as out of touch with reality as they are, as handicapped as they prove to be in their thinking, as delusional about Obama as they continue to appear, one thing stands clear. That when it comes to critical times in the clincher and you need someone who you know where he stands, having the experience and history of loyal public service to navigate us out of this economic mess Obama and Barney Clark were so negligent to do anything about, we can always count on area51 to select the most inexperienced, unqualified, un-tested, un-known person asking for no references accepting a blank job application where things like place of birth has a *****

The religion check box looks like,, NOT MUSLIM / Christianity/ Ok some Muslim BUT NOT THE EXTREME KIND/ Jeremiah Wright/ his mentor of 20 years and the African Americans answer to the Ku Klux Klan/

A Wife equally as unpalatable having only recently experienced what it is like to finally be proud of her country and that feeling lasted the better half of the entire afternoon before the ether wore off and she started talking her usual America and Americans are losers spiel

A list of Character witnesses that look like a who's who in the list of unscrupulous pond scum like,,, ohhhh Syrian Born Terrorist fancier and Chicago Mobster, Tony "the Racketeer" Rezko. Communist leader another mentor , Saul Alinsky, Louis Farrakhan, Terrorist Bill Ayers.

In the end I think even THEY know Obama is HIDING SOMETHING and they just want us to stop talking about it before anyone else may see it as serious a reason to Vote McCain while Barry Baby is deserving of our most dramatically expressed disdain and disgust if not his dis qualification as "The One" "The Messiah" AND the President Elect.

He is Dishonest, a liar and has far too many controversial friends and issues so anti American, the only words that come to mind for Area is

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!

"What's been largely left out of the media coverage of Obama's book deal is that he received a $1.9 million advance for his three book deal after he won his Illinois US Senate seat, but before he was sworn in, which allowed him to skirt Senate ethics rules."

Senate ethics rules are supposed to prevent Senators from taking money in sufficient quantity to influence them. $1.9 million is sufficient to influence most folks, certainly including Obama.

capitalfax.blogspot.com...

you can read about how he claimed that the Senate Banking Committee was "my committee," though, actually he's not on it, and never has been. When he got called on that lie, his campaign released a statement saying that he had simply misspoken, and meant to say it was "his bill" which the committee had passed. But that was another lie. The truth is that it wasn't his committee, it wasn't his bill, he didn't write it, and he didn't vote for it.

Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."

Obama cannot be trusted,and THAT is Undeniable.




[edit on 3-11-2008 by MAINTAL]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by cogburn
 


They just said they have an original BC, they never said if it says he was Born in HI or not. Also they didn't say if the record they have was a certification of live birth or a certificate of live birth. 2 different documents. Hawaii allowed people to register births from outside the U.S. in Hawaii and they would be issued a certificate of live birth.

Also your wrong about this

If he were born in Kenya, it's my understanding he has until 21 to declare his citizenship in the U.S. to be considered "natural-born" by constitutional standards.


in order for him to be a natural born citizen by the laws in place at the time of his birth his mom had to live in the U.S. 10 years before his birth and 5 of those years after the age of 14. that would mean she would had to have been 19 when Obama was born she wasn't she was only 18. whether he was born in the U.S. Or not.

Also he would have to decide his citizenship by the age of 18.

But none of that really matters anyway, when he was 6 his mother moved to Indonesia, and Obama attended school there, and the only way he could do that was if he was a citizen of Indonesia. Obama's Step father recognized Obama as his son, and by doing so when he arrived in Indonesia he became an Indonesian citizen, and he lost his U.S. Citizenship. Both Indonesia and the U.S. did not allow dual citizenship at the time.

Also when Obama was 20 he travel to Pakistan, at that time U.S. citizens where barred from entering the country. It is claimed that he used his Indonesian passport to enter Pakistan. By doing that he gave up any U.S. citizenship he had by swearing an oath to another country.

Now i ask you, Since Obama lost his U.S. Citizenship at the age of 6 and again at the age of 20,

where is the applications with the U. S. State Department to become a naturalized citizen in the United States, when he returned from
Indonesia. at the age of 10?

where is Obama's Certification of Citizenship?

Now i know your going to say well Obama produced a birth certificate and it was put on the web, Well that birth certificate is invalid.
1. there were alterations made to it.
2. there is no raised state seal on it.


edit:spelling

[edit on 11/3/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 11/3/2008 by Mercenary2007]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by cogburn
Insanity. Back to facts, guys and gals.

His father was a citizen of Kenya and his mother was a citizen of the U.S.

If he were born in Kenya, it's my understanding he has until 21 to declare his citizenship in the U.S. to be considered "natural-born" by constitutional standards.

If he were born in Hawaii, it's case closed. One American parent and born on American soil ends the argument by any means.

The Hawaii DOH verified his vault certificate is on file and meets citizenship requirements, this is not enough? I don't get this.

This in and of itself meets the constitutional requirements for being President, without the need for the candidate to specifically release his birth certificate. This is, at the very least, the administration of an Republican official verifying the citizenship status of the Democratic candidate. At most it's an official state agency reporting that everything is indeed in order as it pertains to the citizenship of the Presidential front-runner.

Please explain why this does not end the argument right there?

There's the piffle about hiding something, because it would seem that the logic is that if you have nothing to hide why not release it? That sounds an awful lot like "If he wasn't guilty he wouldn't have been running from the police." At the very least it's intellectually dishonest to espouse the truly conservative virtues of individual liberties and personal freedoms when one cannot honor those same virtues in an opponent.


Well if you can't see this is just more excuses more cloak and dagger subterfuge, more semantics of obfuscation and confusion.

The request is explicit as it is specific. Produce the BC showing The Hospital he crawled out of his mothers womb and what country it was in.

That is the whole Point and why they want to SEE Obama's BC. Yeah They know that too and again only said a record exists. Then all this crap about making such a big deal of who can and cannot see it behind the guise of the Hospitals concern for Identity theft as if some meth tweaking moron is going to make an ID of Barack Hussein Obama and attempt use it in some way. No SS number on it?

When asked again, does it say WHERE he was born as you can register a record like that anywhere without it having to be the hospital he was born at. They again would not answer and just acted all puffy and indignant that what they HAD done was enough already!

Well I'm sorry I ain't buying it. THEY KNOW they are answering questions that are NOT those we want answered. They are deliberatley NOT understanding a simple specific request NOT to verify he HAS a BC but to verify what country that BC says he was Born.

This is the same scam he did last time. He reminds me of Nixon when he wanted to furnish edited transcripts of the watergate tapes expecting that was good enough when what we wanted was the damn TAPES. He did the same thing and kept stone walling coming up with non specific ways to appear he has satisfied the every growing suspicion that he ain't "The One"



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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Personally I think this is a dead issue at this point in time.

At the same time, I can see how those who are already convinced that Obama is not a natural born citizen can argue the fact even after the State of Hawai'i announcement.

This is the only 'real' quote regarding the BC


Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.


But there is this statute

This statute

And the statute on Adoption (re: Lolo Soetoro alledged adoption)

So while the State verifies they have the original on record, they do not specifically state that Obama was born in Hawai'i

Hence the continued objections of the people who are convinced that Obama is not eligible to run.

Seeing how the LAST of the voting is tomorrow, it is a dead issue at this point



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 



it is a dead issue at this point

And how do you come to that conclusion? If Obama is elected and he is found not to be a natural born citizen he will have to be removed from office. That will Cause a constitutional crisis. (just what we need after the last 2 elections)

Do you honestly think that after the election the lawsuits are going to disappear?

There is what 7-8 lawsuits now against Obama. He could have put an end to all this months ago. All he had to do was provide a vault copy of his BC. Hell he was in Hawaii just a few days ago, he could have went and got it after visiting his granny. But did he?



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 


Doesn't matter what I think. It will be a Democratic run Senate that will be responsible for vetting president-elect Obama and they will pass him completely.

BTW, Merc, you did notice how I opened that post, didn't you?



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Yes red i did notice.

Since Berg Filed an appeal with the SCOTUS if the accept the case they will be the ones vetting him.

And honestly since this is a constitutional matter they should be the ones doing the vetting. Even though each of them was appointed by either a dem or repub, they are suppose to be independent but we all know they aren't But they are mixed pretty close to 50/50.

In the long run i think they should hear the case and issue a ruling on it, I think most people on either side could live with their ruling which ever way it went.

Also after the election if Obama was elected it would give anyone standing to bring lawsuits.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 


The only thing SCOTUS can do is review the rulings of the lower courts and *possibly* overturn them.

BUT... Berg used improper procedure by inserting new evidence to the case as it went to SCOTUS.

Chances are, SCOTUS won't even put it on the docket, especially since the relief requested by Berg was to stop Obama from running, and after tomorrow, that becomes a moot point.

Edit to replace missing words

[edit on 11/3/08 by redhatty]



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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I apologize, but anyway who continues to believe Obama is not a citizen is just keeping their head in the sand.

The Federal Government of the United States is not some slack jawed yokel. The citizens that work for it know how to track down any record anywhere in the world as it relates to the leadership of their nation. Obama does not have anything to prove, because there are thousands of citizens working in the Federal Government that would have had no problem identifying his past.

It is beyond me how these threads can continue to perpetuate.



posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by jtma508
He has for many years had a security clearance for Federal buildings.

I believe this is incorrect. Obama does not have any security clearances. Please provide some proof which shows that he does have a clearance.


I didn't make it past page 3. Do forgive me if someone answered here. According to : obama.senate.gov... it shows he is a member of :Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

Just my thoughts, but someone sitting on the Homeland Security committee would have some form of clearance to see possible secret information related to ... Homeland Security.

My friend, who was Air Force years ago, was a weather person and had top secret clearance. Another friend of mine, is a computer techie for a nearby Federal lab, and has various forms of clearance ( She told me about the whole shebang when they reclassified her for a new area )

So, its possible he has something. Do you think they shut him out of the room when they have to open a file with classified material?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 

...just to address the issue... I couldn't get a driver's license with the certificate put up on the web, no doubt.

However....

His mother was undeniably a US citizen, as she was born to an active service member of the military and at Fort Leavenworth. She is a citizen, period. I don't see how the laws at the time apply. Looking over applicable SCOTUS cases, Montana v. Kennedy doesn't apply because Obama was born after 1906 (obviously). Weedin v. Chin Bow doesn't apply because the mother lived (was born) in the U.S. Basically, the child of a U.S. citizen is and always has been a U.S. citizen, and there is no, nor has there ever been, a law that limits that or states the contrary. Miller v. Albright (which Berg tends to bandy about) doesn't apply because the judgment was rendered in 1998. If you can cite a law that applies then by all means post it because I cannot find a single legal precedent that supports the claim that Obama cannot serve. Does he have a U.S. passport? How did he get it? Would it not be possible then to say that the conspiracy began way back then?

Furthermore, dual-citizenship is not a disqualification as long as you are a natural-born U.S. citizen. You may not like that, but it's true. It is, in fact, a valid reason not to want him as President... but it doesn't make him unable to hold the office.

There has never been any reported renunciation of his U.S. citizenship (or his mother's prior to his birth), nor has anything been cited that states Indonesia (at the time) required it. If there was, this would be over.

However given that the Hawaii DOH has proclaimed they actually have his birth certificate (regardless of what it says), what is being inferred at this point is that the certificate on file (and attested to by an opposing political party) was inserted into the DOH records in order to obscure the truth. Either that, or the members of the DOH are conspiring with the Obama camp (against the best interests of their own party) to falsify his birth records.

This is slowly creeping into the realm of tin-foil-hat-land.

"Why doesn't he just show it!?!?!?"

Simple: he doesn't have to and there isn't a single compelling reason, except the volume of Obamanoids, for him to do so.

Might suck if you hold a contrary view of the universe (ie: not reality), but it is what it is.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by StarShin07

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by jtma508
He has for many years had a security clearance for Federal buildings.

I believe this is incorrect. Obama does not have any security clearances. Please provide some proof which shows that he does have a clearance.


I didn't make it past page 3. Do forgive me if someone answered here. According to : obama.senate.gov... it shows he is a member of :Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

Just my thoughts, but someone sitting on the Homeland Security committee would have some form of clearance to see possible secret information related to ... Homeland Security.

My friend, who was Air Force years ago, was a weather person and had top secret clearance. Another friend of mine, is a computer techie for a nearby Federal lab, and has various forms of clearance ( She told me about the whole shebang when they reclassified her for a new area )

So, its possible he has something. Do you think they shut him out of the room when they have to open a file with classified material?
Duh, because obviously he was passed through so The Conspiracy could use him to dismantle Homeland Security from the inside for his Islamic radical brethren.

A perfect example of how silly this gets when you don't look at ALL the information.


[edit on 4-11-2008 by cogburn]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by cogburn
 


First the courts have to go by the laws that were on the books at the time primarily the Nationality act of 1940 which was very well in effect in 1961. Obama was born to a us citizen and a foreign citizen. and the laws at the time says that the U.S. citizen parent had to live in the U.S. for 10 years prior to the Birth and 5 of those years after the age of 14.


Furthermore, dual-citizenship is not a disqualification as long as you are a natural-born U.S. citizen. You may not like that, but it's true. It is, in fact, a valid reason not to want him as President... but it doesn't make him unable to hold the office.


Actually it is since neither country allowed Dual citizenship at the time! Obama's step father reconized him as his son. and By Indonesian law that made Obama a citizen of Indonesia. Obama Also had to take his step fathers surname.


There has never been any reported renunciation of his U.S. citizenship (or his mother's prior to his birth), nor has anything been cited that states Indonesia (at the time) required it. If there was, this would be over.


thats because his mother became a citizen of Indonesia after he was born. And in 1961 the nationality act of 1940 was in effect and it states citizenship follows custodial parent. But that doesn't really matter since Indonesian law made Obama a citizen of indonesia because of his step father.

Also because Obama's mom moved to indonesia to be with Obama's step father because she was his wife she became an indonesian citizen.

Also there wouldn't be one under the name BArrack Obama Since he had to take his step father's last name. thats where the Name Barry soetoro comes in. thats the name Obama was given by his step father in Indonesia.

The U.S. will not interfere with another countries laws reguarding citizenship.

When Obama was 10 his mother sent him back to Hawaii, she did not return with him. and unless she made his grandparents his guardian no one ever filed the applications with the state department to get his u.s. citizenship back. which would have made him a naturalized citizen not natural born.

Also if Obama used his indonesian passport after the age of 18 that was his renunciation of his U.S. citizenship. see the only way he could have an indonesian passport was if he was a citizen of Indonesia. and they expire every 5 years so he had to return to indonesia to renew it. and wouldn't you know he just happened to travel to Indonesia when he was 20 and right before he went to Pakistan and India. which U.S. citizens were barred from traveling their at the time.


it might help if you did your own research and actually read some lawbooks so you had a clue what you were talking about. and while your at it go look up The relevant Indonesian LAws while your at it. I have and have posted them here in one of the other threads about Berg's Lawsuit.

The whole point of these lawsuits is to prove if Obama is eligible to be POTUS or not. If the guy didn't have anything to hide then why not put an end to all this BS and produce a vault copy of his birth certificate.

1.Either he can't because there isn't one. (which hawaii is saying there is)
2. It shows he wasn't born in hawaii.
3. it says he's a muslim (who really cares i don't)

No one is saying that someone planted a record in Hawaii, we are saying his mother gave birth to Obama in Kenya brought Obama to Hawaii and registered his birth in Hawaii, which she could have done because hawaii allowed people to do that back then.

Also a child born to a u.s. citizen out side of the U.S. or its territories only becomes a u.s. citizen if they were born on u.s sovreign property in a foreign land.

again you'd know that if you done any research on your own.

So we'll see if the SCOTUS takes up Bergs case or not.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by redhatty
Personally I think this is a dead issue at this point in time.

At the same time, I can see how those who are already convinced that Obama is not a natural born citizen can argue the fact even after the State of Hawai'i announcement.

This is the only 'real' quote regarding the BC


Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.


But there is this statute

This statute

And the statute on Adoption (re: Lolo Soetoro alledged adoption)

So while the State verifies they have the original on record, they do not specifically state that Obama was born in Hawai'i

Hence the continued objections of the people who are convinced that Obama is not eligible to run.

Seeing how the LAST of the voting is tomorrow, it is a dead issue at this point


Well that is the point isn't it? I mean for all the whining and crying area has done and those who again while they kept answering the wrong question buying more time till the ONE question we've all been asking this whole time goes un-answered and Obama wins yet another act of fraud legitimizing another new precedent a President can go over the line where perhaps we should allow illegal aliens to run for President too.

I mean only those that go too far,, know how far they can go and I see Obama as seeing us as nothing more than an emotional floormat adding a new level of holds harmless clauses to accountability, dishonesty, and un-ethical, immoral acts, you won't recognise America enough to even care who is running for office.

Picking a president will be like having a pepsi.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 01:35 AM
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Sorry Mercenary2007, but if anything you and the sources you support had any merit, Obama would not have gotten to this point. Why? Becuase there are hundreds of thousands of citizens that are our government who are in fact dedicated, honest citizens and employees.

It is the duty of those tasked to such things to carry out the procedures and paperwork for the agency to make sure ANYONE running for President is within the bounds of our written law of eligibility.

To ignore this is like saying you honestly believe thousands of Federal employees are in a conspiracy against America, of course seeing as America has favored Obama and he will be our President the conspiracy would have to be against Mr Berg and those attempting to use this rouse to keep Obama from being President.

This entire subject has no merit, otherwise nobody outside of Illinois and Hawaii would ever have heard of him on the National level.

Dispute over, Barack Obama is the next President of the United States of America!!!!

Conglomerates beware, your in for a scare!. It is time to actually use resources and wealth to provide for the ENTIRE society, not the concentrated interests of the few greedy parasites of humanity that believe hoarding the wealth and resources for themselves in fortified bunkers and digital bank accounts is the best thing for mankind!!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by Mercenary2007
reply to post by cogburn
 

First the courts have to go by the laws that were on the books at the time primarily the Nationality act of 1940 which was very well in effect in 1961. Obama was born to a us citizen and a foreign citizen. and the laws at the time says that the U.S. citizen parent had to live in the U.S. for 10 years prior to the Birth and 5 of those years after the age of 14.
...
When Obama was 10 his mother sent him back to Hawaii, she did not return with him. and unless she made his grandparents his guardian no one ever filed the applications with the state department to get his u.s. citizenship back. which would have made him a naturalized citizen not natural born.

The Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b). (Section 301 of the Act).




Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
(b) Any person who is a national and citizen of the United States at birth under paragraph (7) of subsection (a), shall lose his nationality and citizenship unless he shall come to the United States prior to attaining the age of twenty-three years and shall immediately following any such coming be continuously physically present in the United State(s) for at least five years: Provided, That such physical presence follows the attainment of the age of fourteen years and precedes the age of twenty-eight years.

Berg skips this entirely, as do you. She never left long enough to lose citizenship prior to Barack's birth. Given that he was in the U.S. from age 10 to the age of majority all qualifications set forth in this legislation for citizenship have been met.


Originally posted by Mercenary2007
reply to post by cogburn
 

thats because his mother became a citizen of Indonesia after he was born. But that doesn't really matter since Indonesian law made Obama a citizen of indonesia because of his step father.
Also because Obama's mom moved to indonesia to be with Obama's step father because she was his wife she became an indonesian citizen.
...the only way he could have an indonesian passport was if he was a citizen of Indonesia. and they expire every 5 years so he had to return to indonesia to renew it.

Lots of tossing about of Indonesian law without a SINGLE bit of text to support it. I'd be willing to bet there are probably a handful people in the whole world alive at this time qualified to comment on Indonesian naturalization law as it existed in the 1960's. Please provide commentary from such a qualified source to support this argument.

Citations, citations, citations. None. Zero. Simple gratuitous assertions. Back it up with case law or judicial opinion or congressional record or just stop with this.

I assert you yourself did no research and simply regurgitated what exists on Bergs website.

Edit: for case law reference search Westlaw for Fee v. Dulles (236 F.2nd 855 (C.A. 7, 1956), (355 U.S. 61))

[edit on 4-11-2008 by cogburn]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by Mercenary2007
enjoy the reading here are some Indonesian law sources for you.


Indonesian law, Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958

Law No. 12 of
2006 dated 1 Aug. 2006 concerning Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia

COULDN'T FIND ONLINE

Law No. 9 of 1992 dated 31 Mar.

Republic of Indonesia Constitution 1945, As amended by the First Amendment of 1999, the Second Amendment of 2000, the Third Amendment of 2001 and the Fourth Amendment of 2002, Chapter X, Citizens and Residents, Article 26

USC for loss of citizenship.
8 USC §1481(a)(2)

Obama is accused of using an Indonesian passports at the age of 20 to travel to the middle east. If he did he made an oath to Indonesia after the age of 18
Indonesian passports

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]

[edit on 10/23/2008 by Mercenary2007]


Thread i posted links to the relevant Indonesian Laws

oh yeah thanks for this:


Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
(b) Any person who is a national and citizen of the United States at birth under paragraph (7) of subsection (a), shall lose his nationality and citizenship unless he shall come to the United States prior to attaining the age of twenty-three years and shall immediately following any such coming be continuously physically present in the United State(s) for at least five years: Provided, That such physical presence follows the attainment of the age of fourteen years and precedes the age of twenty-eight years.


see the thing is after Obama turned 18 he was at the age of maturity and used his Indonesian passport which by doing so he made an oath to Indonesia and by doing so he loses any and all u.s. citizenship he may of had! Plus you skipped over the relevant U.S. immigration laws that Obama would have had to follow when he returned to the U.S. at the Age of 10. oh wait i forgot his mother would have had to do for him or his guardian. and since Obama's mother DID NOT RETURN TO THE U.S. with him she never did. and i doubt his grandparents knew they had to do it if they were his legal guardians.

See another funny thing before you accuse someone of not doing research check their profile to see if they have posted in similar threads and provided the Links your crying about i didn't provide! Because i had provided them in another thread!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 04:16 AM
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Your argument slips around.

First he's not a citizen because his father is a foreign national and The Naturalization Act of 1940. Then that argument gets popped.

Next... for some reason Barack and his mother renounce their citizenship because they become Indonesian citizens? No.

From your link ... Page 104, Naturalization

(viii) the applicant does not have citizenship or would not lose other citizenship upon obtaining Indonesian citizenship according to [the] law of [the] country from which [the] applicant holds citizenship or applicant provides statement of relinquishment of other citizenship according to any convention....


So... where's the documentation that she either relinquished U.S. citizenship because there was a treaty (or lack thereof) that required it? Where's the documentation of the status of dual-citizenship between the U.S. and Indonesia in 1961?

EDIT: At MOST his mother lost her citizenship based on Sec. 1481, but not Barack... read on...

But wait.. there's more...

Then... He isn't a citizen because he wasn't re-naturalized. Why isn't your argument then that he isn't a citizen because of a violation of 341.23 FR 9125, Nov. 26, 1958? Where is the proof that it was even required because I can't find a single point in case law that supports that assertion?

Now... There's the passport issue. I'm assuming you're referring to Sec. 1481.2 with the support from the document I linked above as to the requirements for Indonesian naturalization. Again, in the same document on page 105, it states that children of Indonesian citizens under the age of 18 are automatically Indonesian citizens. This requires no relinquishment of other citizenship or taking of an oath. Furthermore, on the same page.... in the same section... it declares that women may not request citizenship during their marriage.... it must be requested by the man. Was it? Where's the documentation? Not that it's even relevant given the prior argument. It's HER citizenship in question... NOT Baracks...

This is like reading the Bible. You're only pulling out the passages that support your world-view. From your very information, from the MOMENT of his birth he had dual-citizenship in both countries and not a single event that you have presented has done anything to refute the legality of either.

EDIT: Wrong page number. It was 104 not 110.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by cogburn]



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