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Undebunkable 911 Truths - Official Story Destroyed (again)

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posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?

No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.


2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?

No, credible people from across the political spectrum question 9/11, including prominent conservatives, prominent liberals,, and prominent centrists.

3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families to question the events of that day?

No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story and are demanding that the truth be disclosed. The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article

4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11, and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions? Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith? And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?

Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith. That is why
prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.

Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed, prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of 9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to our world.


5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?

Not at all. very prominent psychologists question the government's version of 9/11. .

6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American, and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?

Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot and to love your country.. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love their country. .

7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important issues facing America today?

On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.

8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not intentionally.

Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western governments -- have done so before. Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a justification for invading Cuba. And a government informant has stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen . There are many other examples of other other governments killing their own people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as well.

As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near ground zero, after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk, going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks. The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war, causing thousands of American deaths.

9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?

No, it was not unexpected. .

10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11 attacks?

It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games, including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could not do their job.

11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?

Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have pulled it off. .

12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11 attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very worst -- incompetence?

Initially, incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the examples of the U.S. faking intelligencein order to promote its political goals.

Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable before 9/11.Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were the real cause of 9/11?

And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts surrounding 9/11.. Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official story?

And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain people for 9/11. Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do innocent people plant fake evidence?

13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?

Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple, completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11(also listen to this interview).

Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame other agencies made no sense.

14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy theory by a couple of nutty people?

In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory, and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.

15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?

No, that is not true. .

16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11, why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a "Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?

Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.

17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't the media have been "all over it"? Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time covering these questions show there's nothing there?

No. Even well-known news anchors and writers say that self-censorship, censorship by editors and producers, and pressure from the government means that many important stories are not being covered. 9/11 is one of those stories.

18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement" which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11 thing?

No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.

In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the movement. This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the government. www.thefreedictionary.com...


[edit on 30-10-2008 by IvanZana]




posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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BUT THE 9/11 COMMISSION SHOWED THAT SEPTEMBER 11TH WAS A REAL TERRORIST ATTACK, RIGHT?


Unfortunately, a quick look at the government's investigations reveals that -- not only has there never been a real investigation ....--

archive.newsmax.com...

The whole sory is falling apart. One only needs to research to discover the truth they seek.

Do not believe people who say it is not true. Find out for yourself.

In the next posts following this one. Please pay close attention to some of the tactics being implented in forums such as this one. It is not allowed.....



ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.
en.wikipedia.org...

The 911 conspiracy and the cover up extends to internet forums and blogs this very second.




[edit on 30-10-2008 by IvanZana]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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posted by IvanZana
16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11, why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a "Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?

Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.

Great thread. Here is an example of that SHOCK & AWE used to frighten the American sheeple.

Many are still frightened and still docile and still compliant.


North Tower Exploding

A clip of the North Tower shows abundant evidence of explosive demolition that is not adequately explained by the official narrative.


by David S Chandler - Physics-Mathematics Educator - BS-Physics (IPS); MS-Mathematics



FOR A NEW PEARL HARBOR EVENT






posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by IvanZana
 



The whole sory is falling apart. One only needs to research to discover the truth they seek.

Don believe people who say it is not true. Find out for yourself.


Great post! star and flags I have to say some people are too lazy to do any research and depend on tv for their information.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by cashlink
 

Great post! star and flags I have to say some people are too lazy to do any research and depend on tv for their information


Speaking of too lazy, have you found the standard operating procedures that were not followed that day?

Be specific, please.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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Great post Ivan. That was the most interesting well thought out post i've ever read on the internet.

Let the trolls rumble if they want.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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posted by Mozzy
Great post Ivan. That was the most interesting well thought out post i've ever read on the internet.

Let the trolls rumble if they want.

That is about all they are capable of. Research they do not.
Helpless before the Truth. All they can do is lots of hissy fits.

Notice how far this huge piece of exterior wall structure is blown by the demolition explosives in the core.
(see video posted previously above)

Damning evidence of demolition




posted by Ivan Zana
3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families to question the events of that day?

No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story and are demanding that the truth be disclosed. The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article

This 9-11 WTC victim family member is doing all he can do.
Josef Princiotta is not afraid to seek justice, nor is he docile nor compliant.
SHOCK & AWE fear tactics did not work on Josef Princiotta.



Josef Princiotta – Cousin of Firefighter Vincent Princiotta, FDNY, Ladder Company 7, Manhattan, lost in the collapse of the WTC South Tower.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"I am very deeply interested in learning the details and the truth of the Crime of 9/11. I approach it as a crime scene investigation

I live in Anchorage, Alaska. I am a Grass Root Contact for www.911truth.org . I support NO conspiracy theory. I examine the evidence. I do the math.

I focus only on the irrefutable evidence, the weights and measures and the math and physics of the three towers destruction. "There were pre-planted explosives in all three towers."

C.S.I. 9/11 by Josef Princiotta

I give a presentation of this evidence here in Anchorage every Tuesday evening 7:00 PM. I call it C.S.I. 9/11. Here is a flyer:

Original image

We want a full examination of all the evidence by a new 9/11 Commission, in a World Court setting. The evidence warrants it. The victims demand it."



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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great reply, but i've been convincned ever since i decided to actually think about it. i've debated 9/11 on the internet once or twice and in real life i've discussed it a few times.

it's too scary for people to accept. this situation is a "fix". what needs to be understood is that a fix is exactly that. the parameters are known, nothing is left to chance. even though to people like you and me there seems to be avenues of approach that will eventually lead to some sort of resolution. it's not going to happen.

just as you spent time in your busy life to put together this post and decide what happened so are those freaks figuring out the limits of human nature and what people will put up with.

mark my words. the point of no return leading to bloody revolution is well know and we will never be willingly pushed past that point.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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Maybe it’s because I work with children, maybe it’s because I am just generally forgiving, but sometimes ignorance can be excused. It is another story when it is proudly worn like some badge of honor. This yet another list that proves nothing, especially what it claims. It will feed the unread, but will be better at just muddying the water. Then again, I have to say some people are too lazy to do any research and depend on television/liberal media for their information.

Edited to add;
I realized why all these silly lists of reasons & “proof” of conspiracy are showing up lately. This is about the time of the end of the 1st semester in most schools. Now guys, if it only got a D+ in Civics, why would it past muster anywhere else? (Honestly, no offense intended Cash)

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Jake the Dog Man]

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Jake the Dog Man]

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Jake the Dog Man]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by SPreston
 


I support NO conspiracy theory.


Oh really?



I am a Grass Root Contact for www.911truth.org.


Ahh..

Strike 1.


I examine the evidence. I do the math.


Why examine the "evidence" and "do the math" if there is NO conspiracy?

Strike 2.


"There were pre-planted explosives in all three towers."


Andddd strike 3, you're outta here! Hilarious that anyone would take this joker seriously, he doesn't support a conspiracy, yet makes the CD claim as if it were fact.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 09:43 PM
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Regarding number fifteen.

I designed concrete formwork for the monorail and EPCOT center when it was built at Disneyworld. I have also designed concrete formwork for hundreds of highway bridges across the US and Canada, Hydroelectric Dams, Turbine Pedestals, and High Rise buildings. I know my way around a set of building plans.

Back in the seventies it was common practice and probably still is today to design into High Rise buildings maintenance access corridors and elevators that are ONLY ACCESSIBLE BY MAINTENANCE PERSONNEL. In fact there are usually entire floors that the main elevators will not stop at so the maintenance personnel can work undisturbed behind the scenes. You could have an army working in many High Rise buildings without the clients, or the clients employees knowing anything about it.

I do not have access to the Word Trade Center plans, but I will bet that they also incorporated these maintenance access features.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 10:48 PM
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WAR GAMES ON SEPTEMBER 11TH
On the very morning of 9/11/01, five war games and terror drills were being conducted by several U.S. defense agencies, including one "live fly" exercise using REAL planes. Then-Acting Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Air Force General Richard B. Myers, admitted to 4 of the war games in congressional testimony -- see transcript here or video here (6 minutes and 12 seconds into the video).
Norad had run drills for several years of planes being used as weapons against the World Trade Center and other U.S. high-profile buildings, and "numerous types of civilian and military aircraft were used as mock hijacked aircraft". In other words, drills using REAL AIRCRAFT simulating terrorist attacks crashing jets into buildings, including the twin towers, were run.
www.usatoday.com...



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:23 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 10:09 AM
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The criminal demeanor of the Bush administration is amazing.

Recently, I have been concerned about the "threats" the 911 rescue workers, fire fighters and witnesses have received. Barry Jennings, a witness that blew a hole in the 911 coverup, recently died in August and there has been a blackout into the reason why he died. One can deduce the threats he spoke about must now be being directed to the family.

Many people were threatened.

These threats all lead to high places and validate the chant "911 was an inside job."

"Follow the money" or "que bono" also validate the inside job claim. But this is another story.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by groingrinder

Back in the seventies it was common practice and probably still is today to design into High Rise buildings maintenance access corridors and elevators that are ONLY ACCESSIBLE BY MAINTENANCE PERSONNEL. In fact there are usually entire floors that the main elevators will not stop at so the maintenance personnel can work undisturbed behind the scenes. You could have an army working in many High Rise buildings without the clients, or the clients employees knowing anything about it.


Indeed. I have worked in a few high rise buildings in Boston. the Towers in NY did have freight elevators. The elevators where I am currently employed also have freight elevators, service elevators, and other areas of the facility that are not accessible to tenants and guests.

Here is what you need to know. My position here requires me to be everywhere. I also have an elevator company that is required to be here 8 hours a day.

My maintenance staff is here 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year. I can tell you that there is NO WAY a demolition crew could covertly enter this building and wire it for demolition. NO WAY. Our security system I can assure you is nothing like what I would assume they had at the WTC complex.

As far as elevators; we have the same company doing our maintenance that installed the hoistways. The Elevator company that installed the elevators was the same up until a couple years or so prior to 911. Now, before your get your pants is a bundle, MANY of the crew members of ACE elevator left there to stay employed at the WTC with the new company. (that went belly up after 911)

So, my point is; there is no way a project of that magnitude would go unnoticed by the massive amounts of maintenance, elevator,security, and janitorial crews that worked at the WTC complex. Not to mention the bomb sniffing dogs that worked full time.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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posted by Soloist

"There were pre-planted explosives in all three towers."


Andddd strike 3, you're outta here! Hilarious that anyone would take this joker seriously, he doesn't support a conspiracy, yet makes the CD claim as if it were fact.


Have we understood you correctly?

You are calling WTC victim family member Josef Princiotta a joker?

You would take away his right to search out justice for his family in his own way?

Firefighters who gave their lives attempting to save the WTC victims are not worthy of justice?

Is that your position?


C.S.I. 9/11 by Josef Princiotta

Josef Princiotta – Cousin of Firefighter Vincent Princiotta, FDNY, Ladder Company 7, Manhattan, lost in the collapse of the WTC South Tower.




In memory of:

Vincent Princiotta F.D.N.Y.
Engine 16, Ladder 7
Killed on 9/11/01


Sal J. Princiotta F.D.N.Y.
Engine 33, Ladder 9
Killed on 5/1/07






posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by SPreston

Have we understood you correctly?


"We?" You speak french?


You are calling WTC victim family member Josef Princiotta a joker?

You would take away his right to search out justice for his family in his own way?


Dude... he is clearly pointing out the fact that this man has contradicted himself with his poster of garbage.

Your entire post is nothing but an obvious appeal to emotion. You have posted this at least 3 time on this forum already.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by IvanZana
 


How Can One Debunk Opinions? Hearsay? And Speculations?

A closer look at the claims of IvanZana, the master of cut & paste.




Originally posted by IvanZana
1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?


What Ivan does here is put you to a website. Let’s look at this:

911proof.com...

This page lists several “former” employees of different parts of the government or military. And some current ones as well. What it does not do is present and facts that would show LIHOP or MIHOP. Nor does any of these links show any current high level officials questioning the legitimacy of WHO were flying the planes.

Again, I have to ask. How does one debunk an opinion?



2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?


This post takes you to:
georgewashington.blogspot.com...

It is a repeat of #1 on this list with the same links to the same opinions and or questions. Again, there is nothing new here. There are several links to prison planet articles, broken links in Danish, etc.



3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families to question the events of that day?


I think it depends on HOW your are questioning the events. Telling family members that their loved ones were not on the planes, their remains were faked, etc. is in fact disrespectful. If there were to be evidence to prove this, you don’t post it on a website or make a Youtube video. You get a journalist or attorney, etc to start the ball rolling.

Again, this is an opinion. Nothing to debunk. Unless you got to that blogspot that is posted and look at the lies that are stated there.

For instance:

“In fact, half of the victim's families believe that 9/11 was an inside job”


4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11, and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions? Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith? And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?


I looked again to the same GerogeWashington Blog spot to find an opinion filled blog of quotes from different religious people. And once again nothing that is providing evidence.

I find it interesting that David Griffin is once again listed here with this garbage. Who in facts uses 2 anti-semites in his 911 works.




5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?

very prominent psychologists question the government's version of 9/11


GeorgeWashington blog spot again….

Does anyone else see a pattern here? This entire thread is a cut and paste job from another person.

This question actually cuts and pastes names from truther websites. Who found out that they are “very prominent?”


6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American, and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?


What a surprise:
georgewashington.blogspot.com

What is there to debunk here????


7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important issues facing America today?


georgewashington.blogspot.com

I agree… it doesn’t distract anything at all. The truth movement is fading and fading fast. Not a distraction to anyone at all.


8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not intentionally.



Well in addition to the same old blogspot, at least there was something from the New York post in here. Still, I don’t think this is a point raised from skeptics of 911 CT’s.

The examples that are given can have threads of their own. (most already do.)




9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?


Go to the website (this is 911 proof again) ½ the links do not work there. The ones that do offer ZERO evidence to the claim.


10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11 attacks?


THIS is debunkable. As I did so in another thread of IVANS that he so triumphantly claimed victory on.

Here: www.abovetopsecret.com...


11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?


Wow another GW Blogspot. Count how many people it would have taken to wire the 3 WTC buildings. They are all in on it. IF you are into the flyover theory…how many civilian contractors would have been in on the pre- wiring of this building??


Sorry, but there was too much going on today for me to read the rest of this Georgewashington Blog Spot that Ivan has taken credit for. (and was seeking Flags for before the mods removed it)

I will just jump to one more:
.


15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?

No, that is not true. .


Once again Mr. Georgewashington gets it all wrong. Go to the web site that Ivan links you too and look at the bloggers explanations on how TWO 110 story buildings were possible wired for demolition. A feat that has NEVER been attempted. Never mind doing it covertly.



Sorry Ivan, once again your cut and paste spam thread has ZERO evidence or substance that links the United States government to the attacks on September 11th.




[edit on 10/31/0808 by ThroatYogurt]



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