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Tinley Park UFO - Calling all the UFO debunker's out - Debunk this one!

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posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Europa733
I am a moderator in one of the biggest UFO-website & forum in France and I never got to this day, one single testimony coming from people who thought stars were moving in a "triangular" formation.


Of course you would not get a single testimony like that - what person in their right mind would claim that stars moved in a formation?

The crux of the matter is that people can not be trusted to reliably identify stars, and that people are know to attribute motion to celestial objects when there is none. As I said, there is masses of evidence of this - and I see it all the time here on ATS.

So, if you know you can't trust even your own eyes and brain, how can you take the word of others that "it moved"?

Are you also going to ignore the whitenesses that saw the same thing and said they were just stars (thanks to Phage for posting that)?

Anybody who does not take these things into account is just fooling themselves (and misleading others). If you want to investigate UFOs, at least learn what is not a UFO first, otherwise, how can you ever hope to speak authoritatively on the matter?




posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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Let me simplify my response since so much has been written already:

So, where was that proof you were talking about? I saw some lights. I did not see aliens. I say keep looking...I want it to be real...but there's no proof of anything here.

Posts like yours and the hundreds like them are what gives this whole area of research a bad name. Time and time again people claim "proof" where there is none. Keep crying wolf and we'll never get to truth.

UFO Hunters (the show) is stupid. I'm really shocked by how lame it is. It does not do justice to truth. It's just cashing in on what people want to believe.

Show me, show me, show me, show me, show me!!!



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Sometimes seeing is NOT believing. This is especially true if that information causes a fight or flight response in the individual. Those who believe and know that something that is beyond earthly explanation is happening in our skies should not judge those who don't believe too harshly.

We are a diverse group of people on this planet, and I can understand if belief in "aliens" or belief in "bigfoot" or other paranormal puzzles would send some into a howling at the sky tizzy.

But one thing we have to understand is just because we do believe differently on that and other subjects doesn't mean we should stoop to name calling and questioning the mental state of others.

Still, one must realize that by taking a position and then trying to bring down the opposite position by name calling or loud protest one is alienating themselves from not only the opposing side, but from those who understand that in the end it really doesn't matter all that much.

We are only human after all, except for the few who think they are "alien-hybrids" or "living gods"



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by LordThumbs
 


Hi LordThumbs,

Sorry, nearly missed your reply to me in this deluge of posts.

It's not that I don't have confidence in other people - I do! Just not when it comes to observing celestial phenomena.

How can you tell if it's a light 50 feet away, 1 mile away, or a million miles away? You can't without other points of reference.

You may not want to accept it, but all the evidence says is that people are bad at observing things in the sky. Why is that so hard to accept, when it's so well documented?

I don't like being told I'm wrong either, but in some cases it's inevitable, and I accept that. Do you want to know the truth, or would you rather that people let you believe what is obviously erroneous?



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:54 PM
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Calling all the UFO debunker's out - Debunk this one!


haha this is funny because the two guys in the video debunked it, so no need to call on any other debunkers...


hmmm... lets see now....a party was going on at night time and someone let some chinese lanterns go near the party...wich i am sure happens quite often.




posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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Yes I'm sure those chinese lanterns could stay equadistant in a triangle formation from each other in 30 MPH winds. Nice try but doesn't hold anything except hot air!


[edit on 1-11-2008 by TH3ON3]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by TH3ON3
 


Good post ,regarding the vid I´ve got great repect for Michael Shermer in other fields but when it come to UFOs/OVNIs it seems the man is unable to access his objective,impartial faculties and insteads prefers to just shoehorn his own (quite cynical) preconceptions onto events.
As for the unknown flying object,perhaps you can use this handy debunker spotting guide:
weblog.timoregan.com...

Cheers Karl

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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I'm sorry if I appear to be like the little kid in the 'Emporer's New Clothes' story - and I humbly apologise if this makes me a 'debunker', but it really does look like three glo-lanterns.



[edit on 1/11/08 by Myrdyn]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Myrdyn
I'm sorry if I appear to be like the little kid in the 'Emporer's New Clothes' story - and I humbly apologise if this makes me a 'debunker', but it really does look like three glo-lanterns.



[edit on 1/11/08 by Myrdyn]


Thank you for your contribution...Perhaps you or another wizard is keeping them in place with magic powers.


[edit on 1-11-2008 by TH3ON3]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by TH3ON3
Yes I'm sure those chinese lanterns could stay equadistant in a triangle formation from each other in 30 MPH winds. Nice try but doesn't hold anything except hot air!


[edit on 1-11-2008 by TH3ON3]


Okay, not read through everything - but 30mph winds are very strong - gales to most people.

I'm assuming winds were not that strong. And, of course, wind speeds at altitude vary from those at ground level.

So, anyone fancy confirming the exact date, time and location of this sighting? And we'll see what local atmospheric conditions were



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by TH3ON3
Yes I'm sure those chinese lanterns could stay equadistant in a triangle formation from each other in 30 MPH winds. Nice try but doesn't hold anything except hot air!


[edit on 1-11-2008 by TH3ON3]



The skies were clear over Tinley Park on the night of Aug. 21, 2004. Despite the absence of a breeze, the temperature outside was about as agreeable as you get in the Chicago area that time of year. All around the Chicago suburbs, people were having block parties or barbecues and otherwise enjoying the last gasps of summer.

www.suntimes.com...

NOAA weather archives for Chicago Midway Airport (15 miles from Tinley Park) show the speed as 2-5 knots (3-6mph) with the direction variable.

Is this the night in question?

On the Halloween sighting that year the wind was about the same.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Phage]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by MC esher
reply to post by TH3ON3
 


I actually saw this thing in Tinley Park. No joke, I saw it. Here is my story:

Me and a bunch of my friends had just played baseball in the late after noon. It was hot out and we kicked the other teams butt. We came back to my friend Johnnys in Tinley, from Orland Park the next town over and BBQed drank some beers etc. We were having a good time partying it up. It was a very clear sky that night but the night was really pretty dark. NNormally near chicago you can only see a couple stars but out in Tinley away from the city you can see everything. Round 12:00pm, could be later; but it generally seemed around that time. Facing east, towards lake Michigan, at about a 80 degree angle (almost directly above but not quite) we see three red lights. Crazy, we all start joking around, take a few pictures, one guy takes really shakey video. We even woke up my friends dad to confirm our sighting. The red light was really bright, in the same way that a vcr light is in a completely dark room. Just like the History chanel said, it was a triangular shaped arrangement of lights. The UFO lingered for about 30 minutes or so moving in direction only slightly. But it did seem to move up and down in terms of altitude. At some points it seemed as far away as a star appears in the sky. This was probably because of our perspective being almost right under it. At other times it seemed to come really close; with in 15,000 feet in my estimation. But as I said it was definetly moving up and down. I was immediatly convinced this was nothing that i had ever seen before as were my 10 or so friends. The lights did seem to blink once in a while but not with any sort of reasoning and that could just be a result of the atmosphere. When the thing actually left; it appeared to us that the craft went straight up out of the stratosphere. And it happened really quickly. I know the history channel said it went south but the way we saw it the UFO went straight up out of the stratosphere. Again, all we saw was the lights as I said it was really dark that night. This is about everything that I can remember it was a few years back after all. Also about 2 or 3 weeks later there was an article in the Chicago Sun Times about it. So, yeah there it is.


there you have it ...a witness that say's...


I know the history channel said it went south but the way we saw it the UFO went straight up out of the stratosphere.


that means to me that it was likely chinese lanterns

untill you post the raw footage for us to examine...it will be pointless to continue debating this.



[edit on 1-11-2008 by easynow]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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teslaandlyne (3 seconds ago)
Tesla Flying Machines (TFMs aka UFOs)

Tinley Park Triangle - Top 10 UFO Encounters #4
www.youtube.com...

Or shall I start calling them T&L buggies of science suppression.
What a bunch of pare shaped losers thinking something on earth is not
terrestrial.
The UFO came from the Chicago area... like all the rest floating around
all day and night.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by TH3ON3
 



Yes I'm sure those chinese lanterns could stay equadistant in a triangle formation from each other in 30 MPH winds. Nice try but doesn't hold anything except hot air!


well phage has provided evidence that there was little wind that night , so you have to admit that chinese lanterns are a possibility , no ?



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by easynow
 


It would make balloons or lanterns more feasible but more than anything, if these are the correct nights, it calls into question the reliability of a source that claims 30mph winds.

Where did that information come from?


[edit on 1-11-2008 by Phage]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by TH3ON3
 



well phage has provided evidence that there was little wind that night , so you have to admit that chinese lanterns are a possibility , no ?





uhhh...No! Most people know that winds increase proportionate to the altitude. Even on a calm night the winds aloft will be much higher. It would defy scientific laws for balloons to stay equadistant even in calm winds for an extended period of time.

I don't believe because of this one sighting, I have seen several unexplained UFO's with my own two eyes. One actually landed in a nearby field. This was way back in 1972 when everything including helicopters produced very loud noise. So no chance of it being a silent chopper if there is such a thing.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 



Where did that information come from?


good question as i did not see the ufo hunters episode of this case , i can only speculate that the Op got that info from the show ?

if that's true then the ufo hunters credibility is in serious question imo

either way though i find it extremely arrogant to call you out like the Op did in the opening post and also seemed to make this thread the biggest trolling motor i ever seen on ATS
:

the last thing i will say is...

if the raw footage is not posted for you to examine...how can this ever be debunked ?

it was a set up if you ask me



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by TH3ON3


uhhh...No! Most people know that winds increase proportionate to the altitude. Even on a calm night the winds aloft will be much higher. It would defy scientific laws for balloons to stay equadistant even in calm winds for an extended period of time



What was the triangulated altitude of the lights?
Better yet, what was the altitude of the helicopter (plane?) that flew next to it?

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Phage]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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Lots of posts since I last read the thread. I have read all of the remarks pointed at mine, some of them raise interesting side points but I am just going to stay at the topic at hand.

1. Within the FAA (Which in full disclosure, my partner worked for when we were in Washington D.C.) there is a big distinction between "not seeing anything" and "not having any record of unusual activity". If you think the FAA keeps detailed records of every radar sweep coast to coast, you would be sorely mistaken.

2. The point I was making with Vampires being the source of the lights is.. there is no way to prove it was ANYTHING, let alone..

A. Planes (My leading theory at this point)
B. Lanterns
C. Alien Craft
D. LED Balloons
E. Vampires

This is regardless of whether you believe in said phenomenon or not. I can't PROVE it was a vampire, Jimbob can't prove it was an alien craft, and no one else can prove it was an LED Balloon.

My advice when presented with this evidence is...

Follow the money.

Who stands to gain from sensationalizing this footage and turning it into something more mysterious than it actually is? The shows producers and the network.

Everyone is all upset with the MUFON show because it presented them all of this evidence and then showed them, "Hey, look! This evidence was very compelling, but when looked at through the proper scientific filer, you can see that it is all explainable!"

No one wants that.

You all want the Wizard, but you don't want to see the man behind the curtain.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Nice video, I'm often confused by these threads as they section off people who don't believe in ET visitations as an enemy. Hey I don't believe in ETs visiting earth but I do believe that until this object is identified either as swamp gas or government mischief then it is indeed a UFO.

OP : What's your theory on this objects origins?




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