Obama wants to create a Civilian National Security Force. Why???

Consider the following:

Even prior to the economic downturn, there were thousands of unemployed, able-bodied adults in Louisiana (my state) receiving food stamp benefits.

Post-downturn, there are still lots of unfilled jobs in Louisiana...for now, the economy is good here. I see nothing wrong with requiring the able-bodied to work in exchange for government benefits...so, perhaps this "civilian national security force" will be staffed with food stamp & welfare recipients participating in-kind for benefits (as Americorps has been used for)...probably not a good idea, but on the right track as far as requiring that an individual works for benefits.

Anyone who sounds the alarm of "socialism to come!!" should remember that food stamps, welfare, etc., are all socialistic in nature and have crippled a generation of Americans who don't care in the least if they don't contribute to society.

Entitlement programs such as these are great for people who are down on their luck, the disabled, the elderly...but too many who are ABLE to work have come to DEPEND on these benefits as a means of living, expecting Big Daddy Government to foot the bill for their lives.

Originally posted by jsobecky

And do you think illegal aliens would be loyal to you and your family in such a scenario? Or would they see it as an opportunity to organize under the authority of the US gov't and seize what you have

First off, I don't think I understand fully your stance against illegal aliens. Do you resent them for some reason? Or do you just not understand their culture. I have lived in and around their society for parts of my life and have been fortunate to call some of the 'illegals' my friends.

They come here illegally because the current Naturalization laws are totally draconian, first of all. They are only trying to provide a better life for their families, since urban Mexico is currently being torn apart by the War on Drugs.

How would you react if a group of men carrying small bags walked up to your state's capitol and rolled a bunch of decapitated heads down the flight of stairs? Or crucified dead men on street corners? This is Mexico City.

..I see I started rambling there, so I'll get back on topic. No, I don't expect them to protect my family. I also guarantee they would not side with any Federal agency at any point in their lives. I have known personally families who have been deported. By their very nature of being in this country, they are supposed to avoid any government interaction like the plague. To think they could somehow be 'summoned' by these very people to do their bidding... I just don't understand the logic there. If anything, they would be the first on the streets fighting for their families and their own well-being.

Right..

New applications for state unemployment benefits were unchanged at 479,000 in the week ended Oct. 25.

www.marketwatch.com...[5C7CCC59-2AF9-4DAE-8EBF-ACABE64EFBB9]&dist=msr_1

Where is this boom going to come from, since Obama is going to make it much harder on small business?

If all immigrants in America were even partially legalized, that would necessitate the payment of taxes. That would mean billions of dollars being funneled into the local, state, and federal economies. Businesses would cease their under-the-table policies towards the employment of immigrants.

I also don't understand why you provided the unemployment article that you did. What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Survey of Income and Program Participation indicates that 13% of small business owners have health issues that limit their choice of occupation. Only 58% of small business owners (as opposed to 76% of paid employees) have a health insurance policy in their name.

According to the Survey of Consumer Finances, the median U.S. small business has two employees including owner(s), grosses $40,000 a year, and nets $10,000 a year.

A British study conducted by the Nottingham University Business School reported that half of small businesses provide between 10,000 and 35,000 pounds ($18,900-$66,100 at current exchange rates) in annual income to the owner. The tails of the distribution were symmetrical, i.e., for every business producing over 35,000 pounds of income, there was one that produced below 10,000.

Most small businesses do not make a quarter of a million dollars in one year. Don't believe the right-wing "Joe the Plumber" propaganda machine.

I can see this going in a few directions.

1. Obama could know something we don't, and could be trying to help us prepare to defend ourselves from something we don't yet know about.

2. This could be an "under the table" attempt to arm the "average joe" equal to our military, so that we will finally get off our butts and take this government back and return it to something that even remotely resembles what the contitution intended.

3. I hate to agree with the fear mongerers but yes this could be some scary, insane hitler's brown shirt program.

4. Remember how shocked our national gaurd was when they got deployed to afghanistan and iraq? This could be the second wave of oversea forces who never expected to leave home.

5. It could be because of the fact that our military is stretched thin, and other countries don't like us so much anymore.
Who would defend us if we WERE invaded, and our entire military was on the other side of the world?

Who knows, without more information...
This could go in alot of different directions.

I do have to say though...
Bush TAKES AWAY your power as a citizen, and america collectively eats their TV dinners, while watcing survivor and doesn't bat an eyelash.

Obama talks of possibly EMPOWERING YOU again, and everyone runs around screaming "the sky is falling!"

Am I the last sane person left in america?

reply to post by ashamedamerican


No one knows anything about it. They are just continuing the trend of going, "OMG Obama is scary. He might be muslim. Or maybe he's an extreme Christian. Perhaps he is from Indonesia. Maybe he hates Jews and will destroy Israel."

Just wait for this rumor to die out and then we can start dealing with the next one. Half of these people don't even remember half of the stuff that got them "steaming mad" the week before.

reply to post by ashamedamerican




The draft is an unpopular idea in America. This may be a backdoor draft.

We'll just wait and see..

I tend to judge people by there actions, Obama would be a risky proposition for me,yes the call for a national civilian security force is slightly unnerving, yet to the point,something Obama has been too little of i am afraid.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by all2human]

reply to post by Tgautier13

Originally posted by Tgautier13
First off, I don't think I understand fully your stance against illegal aliens. Do you resent them for some reason? Or do you just not understand their culture. I have lived in and around their society for parts of my life and have been fortunate to call some of the 'illegals' my friends.

Good for you. My best buddy's name was Johnny Avila when I was a kid.

Don't even go there with your lame attempt at painting me resentful of illegal aliens.

They come here illegally because the current Naturalization laws are totally draconian, first of all. They are only trying to provide a better life for their families, since urban Mexico is currently being torn apart by the War on Drugs.

Then tell them to stay home and fix their own country. Don't tell them to come on in, get SS benefits at the expense of those who have been paying all their lives. And don't tell them to jump in front of the line of people who have been following the laws and waiting in line for citizenship.

How would you react if a group of men carrying small bags walked up to your state's capitol and rolled a bunch of decapitated heads down the flight of stairs? Or crucified dead men on street corners? This is Mexico City.

I wouldn't put up with it. Tell them to fix it. Don't bring that crap into our country. Guess what? Not every illegal is a hard-working nice guy. Some of those druggies are here also.

Right..

New applications for state unemployment benefits were unchanged at 479,000 in the week ended Oct. 25.

www.marketwatch.com...[5C7CCC59-2AF9-4DAE-8EBF-ACABE64EFBB9]&dist=msr_1

Where is this boom going to come from, since Obama is going to make it much harder on small business?

If all immigrants in America were even partially legalized, that would necessitate the payment of taxes. That would mean billions of dollars being funneled into the local, state, and federal economies. Businesses would cease their under-the-table policies towards the employment of immigrants.

I also don't understand why you provided the unemployment article that you did. What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Let me explain.

An illegal does not enter with a pocketfull of tax dollars to contribute. He needs a job to get income to pay taxes.

Unemployment is rising. There aren't enough jobs as it is. Giving the illegals SS benefits would put an additional strain on SS.

Get it now?

reply to post by jsobecky


Can you give one fact to back up that claim?

Why would Obama want to start a draft?

What evidence do you have to support that there is anything negative about Obama's statement?

In other words, instead of taking a snippet of a quote, can you please disclose this evil plan that you claim Obama has (with evidence)?

OMG, scary! Another one of those things that start with good intentions? I suppose they will be the ones with the guns that will take ours away? Sounds like a militia. Obama's private army? NOW this guy really scares me. This guys gonna shove a communist NWO down our throats. His ideas stand in the way of my pursuit of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

reply to post by Sublime620


Read it again, Sublime. I didn't state is as a fact, nor take a snippet of a quote. It was an opinion, a theory, a whatif.

And I certainly didn't create the video I posted in the OP.

reply to post by jsobecky


Fair enough. I just noticed that speculations are running wild lately. It is just a quote, as you pointed out, and there doesn't seem to be much more information on it.

I don't think it would hurt if the press would ask Obama to explain further, but I doubt that would happen.

If true then the explanation could be very simple.

The US Constitution guarantees the right to a citizen's militia to bare arms. Trouble is Americans bare arms without belonging to a citizens militia.

By creating a citizen's militia, Government can determine that anyone who does not qualify to belong to that militia may be charged with unlawful possession.

HOORAY about time someone did something to stop High School massacres and the murder of Trick or Treating kids on Halloween.

You Americans are nutters about guns.

It sounds as harmless as Clinton's National Service Program

In August, Congress obliged the President by enacting the National Service Act of 1993, which will provide scholarships to students who perform community service. The effusive bipartisan rhetoric that surrounded the legislation's passage conjured up images of a youthful army marching into poor communities to vaccinate children and clean streets.

reply to post by venividivici


Funny though. The act was passed, and none of that DID happen. Just because someone can make it LOOK like something Hitler would have done, doesn't even make it close to being the same.

I mean, damn, anyone who can make giving poor kids scholarships for doing community service look like a bad thing (or something Hitler would do), needs psychological evaluations.

I am thinking a Blackwater type group that answers only to the democratic party.

The democrats don't like blackwater but the do like the idea of a paramilitary group that they would run to protect democratic party officials in the advent of a uprising against the democratic party

Something like the outlawing of private ownership of guns in the US.

With this poll of the military showing that over 75% would vote and support the republican party, The democrats most likely believe that the military would not disarm the American public and the US military commanders would call it a unlawful order under the Posse Comitatus Act
en.wikipedia.org...
www.militarytimes.com...

By forming there own paramilitary force they would have someone to order to disarm the public.
Without violating the Posse Comitatus Act because they would not be US military.
But hand picked loyal democratic party people.

This group could also be used to arrest us military officers or any others like state governors that refused to fallow unlawful orders.
or state governors that order there state national guard to stop the democrats gun grabbers in there state

There are two states that i believe would tell the democrats to go to h**l and use there state national guard to block a gun grab.
those would be Texas and Utah with about 12 other states that could go ether way.

if it happened i would pack my car and my guns and head for that state to help that state.

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by ashamedamerican

 

The draft is an unpopular idea in America. This may be a backdoor draft.

We'll just wait and see..

As long as it stays voluntary I'll stay calm.
If this becomes mandatory, I'll be the first one to start "throwing stones" at it. Until then we should all relax a little, we have bigger things we should be worried about.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Then tell them to stay home and fix their own country. Don't tell them to come on in, get SS benefits at the expense of those who have been paying all their lives. And don't tell them to jump in front of the line of people who have been following the laws and waiting in line for citizenship.

Before anyone else bashes more illegal immigrants...
One thing you have to realize is that half of the reason their country is so violent, is because of the U.S.
Look at coc aine for example, we start a "war on drugs" and turn mexico into a virtual war zone, instead of destroying the coca plants before they are TURNED INTO coc aine. The coca plant is known to only grow on the east side of the andes, so instead of destroying the root of the problem, we fight the drud lord's minnions. And the poor people of mexico get caught in the crossfire.

I think we could do a better job of fixing the problems that we helped cause. Look at most of our foreign policy involving situations like this and you will see a pattern emerge. We keep "the war" from our shores with policies that subject innocent people to horrible violence.
We could, and should, do better to help one of our closest neighbors.

Why would we "treat the symptoms" rather than solve the problem?
Look into the eyewitness claims of former Cocaine Import Agency (C.I.A.) employees, who have stated that drugs have been imported into our country by factions of our own government.
(follow the money, works everytime)

That being said I agree with you 100% that if they want to come here, they should get in line behind the other people who are trying to come here legally. It's not fair to the ones trying to come here legally, and it's not fair to us.

Sorry for the off-topic chatter but I hate seeing people "crucify" others for things that are not really their fault. The mexican and American governments are to blame, not the citizens of mexico.
If we can't even fix our own country, why should we expect them to fix theirs?

Originally posted by sy.gunson
The US Constitution guarantees the right to a citizen's militia to bare arms. Trouble is Americans bare arms without belonging to a citizens militia.

The US Constitution guarantees the right to form militias AND for each citizen to bear arms, not JUST to for a militia to bear arms.

Originally posted by ANNED
By forming there own paramilitary force they would have someone to order to disarm the public.
Without violating the Posse Comitatus Act because they would not be US military.
But hand picked loyal democratic party people.

This group could also be used to arrest us military officers or any others like state governors that refused to fallow unlawful orders.
or state governors that order there state national guard to stop the democrats gun grabbers in there state

You think a "voluntary" group of americans will carry out acts that our armed forces wouldn't? I'm all for conspiracy theories but that's just unrealistic paranoia.
"Excuse me, Mr. Jones... We would like you to go arrest those soldiers who refuse to carry out our illegal order to imprison your wife and child...
By the way, while your doing that please round up all your neighbors weapons illegally for us."
Never in a billion years would that happen...
"Y'all" need to chill...

[edit on 2-11-2008 by ashamedamerican]

reply to post by ANNED

Originally posted by ANNED

There are two states that i believe would tell the democrats to go to h**l and use there state national guard to block a gun grab.
those would be Texas and Utah with about 12 other states that could go ether way.

You can add New Hampshire to that list.

reply to post by ashamedamerican

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
If we can't even fix our own country, why should we expect them to fix theirs?

Except that Americans aren't crossing the border and expecting the Mexican gov't to support them.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Except that Americans aren't crossing the border and expecting the Mexican gov't to support them.

Don't speak so soon...
You just may see that happen before our time on this planet is up.