Top conservatives to meet on rebuilding Republican party

reply to post by Pinktip


Your quotes are in fact quite revealing about the culture and traditions to which our founding fathers adhered. Yet they saw fit to codify the law to exclude religious belief from the execution of governance. Why?

I suspect that their religious belief was theirs, and while we live in a relatively homogenized nation of Christian religions, if one were to approach the matter logically we would see that there a few indications that the Constitution, nor the Laws which rely on it as a foundation, mandate that the religious precepts of one group should hold sway over the population 'just because.'

Morality can be embraced by religion, unfortunately religion is rarely swayed by morality. It seems to me that morality should be the guide of our society, not religion. Religion is a social institution, morality is a personal mandate. Religion often gets used an an excuse to 'change' what is morally correct.

Originally posted by nyk537
I can't say I disagree with your thinking.

I do worry though about what the next 4 years could bring under complete Democratic control.

It's scary. Unchecked power from anyone is scary.

Funny, when GWB and the GOP has unchecked power the republicans weren't scared. when the GOP controlled every thing and ran this country in to the ground no one was "scared". But now that the Dems might have total control the people who own the GOP are panicking. All that money invested in bribing the GOP wasted. Like Freddie Mac's two million dollar pay off to destroy regulation.

reply to post by grover



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reply to post by Maxmars

Thanks for the eloquent reply Maxmars...

I again ask, whom are the elected officials in the Republican party that are religious fanatics or bible thumpers?

More quotes...

"Hold fast to the Bible as the sheet-anchor of your liberties; write its precepts in your hearts and practice them in your lives. To the influence of this book we are indebted for all the progress made in true civilization, and to this we must look as our guide in the future. Righteousness exalteth a nation; but sin is a reproach to any people." -Ulysses S. Grant

The whole inspiration of our civilization springs from the teachings of Christ and the lessons of the prophets. To read the Bible for these fundamentals is a necessity of American life. -Herbert Hoover

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God...... Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty...... With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own."
-John F. Kennedy

reply to post by Pinktip


Actually, I must apologize. I realize now that I didn't answer your question.

Frankly, (in my opinion) none of them are. They simply use the zealously held religious beliefs of their constituents and supporters as a means to elicit their loyalty.

The problem isn't, in fact, that they ARE bible-thumping etc. etc. If they were we could at least appeal to that side of their value system to see reason.

They are opportunistic 'show-biz' salesmen types who only want one thing from you and me. What do they want from us, you may ask? Everything we are, own, and could ever become.


[edit on 30-10-2008 by Maxmars]

reply to post by Maxmars



I agree, that politians will exploit beliefs held by thier constituents for their own personal benefit.
But, I hear the bible thumping remarks, and they seem to come from
the left talking ponts. "The Republicans are forcing their religion on you" crap....

If someone can enlighten me on this argument, please feel free...

We establish no religion in this country, nor will we ever. We command no worship. We mandate no belief. But we poison our society when we remove its theological underpinnings. We court corruption when we leave it bereft of belief.

All are free to believe or not believe; all are free to practice a faith or not. But those who believe must be free to speak of and act on their belief, to apply moral teaching to public questions.

I submit to you that the tolerant society is open to and encouraging of all religions. And this does not weaken us; it strengthens us, it makes us strong. You know, if we look back through history to all those great civilizations, those great nations that rose up to even world dominance and then deteriorated, declined, and fell, we find they all had one thing in common. One of the significant forerunners of their fall was their turning away from their God or gods.

Without God, there is no virtue, because there's no prompting of the conscience. Without God, we're mired in the material, that flat world that tells us only what the senses perceive. Without God, there is a coarsening of the society. And without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure. If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under. If I could just make a personal statement of my own -- in these 3 1/2 years I have understood and known better than ever before the words of Lincoln, when he said that he would be the greatest fool on this footstool called Earth if he ever thought that for one moment he could perform the duties of that office without help from One who is stronger than all.

There are no such things as limits to growth, because there are no limits on the human capacity for intelligence, imagination and wonder."

-Ronald Reagan

Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.
-George Washingtion

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I believe once the country gets its first strong taste of socialism to come, there will be a wild swing and an upsurge in the opposite direction.

They did already - the first two years of the Clinton administration. Remember what happened afterward? Democrats lost a massive amount of seats in Congress. I look for that same pattern to be repeated under an Obama presidency.

Originally posted by GamerGal

Originally posted by nyk537
I can't say I disagree with your thinking.

I do worry though about what the next 4 years could bring under complete Democratic control.

It's scary. Unchecked power from anyone is scary.

Funny, when GWB and the GOP has unchecked power the republicans weren't scared. when the GOP controlled every thing and ran this country in to the ground no one was "scared". But now that the Dems might have total control the people who own the GOP are panicking. All that money invested in bribing the GOP wasted. Like Freddie Mac's two million dollar pay off to destroy regulation.

Can you drop your partisan pot-shotting for just two seconds and realize that having ONE party in total control is NOT good? Conservatives aren't naive enough to believe that an unchecked system of Republicans is akin to a holiday in the park. It's a recipe for disaster because as the old saying goes, "Absolutey power corrupts, absolutely."

The sooner you realize that's what checks and balances is all about, the better off you will be on that subject.

What I find interesting by all your comments is that it seems the majority of you want the party to become more right wing which in case you haven't noticed tends to alienate more people than it attracts.

Becoming more right wing does not seem like a winning strategy to me. I don't want a permanent majority of any party or ideology for that matter...

... Like I said earlier there are many ways of being conservative just as there are many ways of being liberal. In most countries what we call right wing conservative would be considered liberal and in some cases far left.

To become more right wing would to become entrenched and it seems to me would continue the party down the wrong path.

I envision a Republican party that like I said earlier would embrace Main street over Wall street... would steer away from the nasty politics of hate and smear, the Lee Atwater's and Karl Rove's have in the long run hurt your party more than helped it. How about returning to the conservatism of caution as opposed to the conservatism of division because like it or not, accept it or not, we, left, right, conservative, liberal, Democrat or Republican... all of us are Americans and we love our country... we often see the same things wrong with it, we just differ on ways to fix it.

It will be interesting to see if the GOP retrenches, chases out the remaining moderates in its ranks and embraces the right like never before...

... or rather grows up and realize that the hard right has never had a majority in this country and continuing down that path is a dead end.

Originally posted by grover
What I find interesting by all your comments is that it seems the majority of you want the party to become more right wing which in case you haven't noticed tends to alienate more people than it attracts. ....

Forgive ramblings that may follow - I am just out of bed.

True on quoted above. Just as on the left a far left stance tends to alienate more than it attracts. I think part of Obama's success was due that he moved more toward the middle after winning the nomination.

Much like the bell curve, a few (often very loud) voices on either the far left or far right, and many in the middle that hold a mix of left and right views.

It seems we (both left and right) have been groomed to hate and fear the other side. How did this happen? Was it by wildly spun meida and those loud voices on either side? Heh - I know there will be those that say, "My side doesn't do this!" But, yes, each side does it. It didn't used to be that way and doesn't have to be that way now.

Obama largely spoke of "hope" - a powerful message. Isn't the gift of hope one of the greatest gifts of all? If he can deliver - only time will tell.

I think in some part what the Repulicans must do depends on what Obama and Congress does - how it is recieved. Obviously much of what the Repulican's did over the past 8 years was not well recieved and the people let them know.

I think the answer lies not in moving farther right, but moving more center. Surely there are things that will benfit not just the CEO, but the guy on the assembly line too.

Keep it simple is a good start. Ask "What do we want to stand for?" "Do we do that now?" "What do we need to change to move to there?"

A Star for you. Excellent post and one I couldn't agree more with. I considered going to Ann Coulter's website to see what that anorexic shrew had to say... but hey why ruin my breakfast?

reply to post by grover


Hey come on, think about what we conservatives here on ATS mean by "right" or "conservative".

It does not mean rampant public spending, warmongering and international interference, illthought deregulation, vast swathes of authoritarian legislation etc. Those are the vices of the Neo-cons. We, by and large, hate neo-con positions in general.

What the grassroots conservatives want is a return to the prudent conservatism of Reagan. This entails the repeal of the Patriot act, reeling in public spending, cessation of all wars etc etc.

Neo-conservatism is not the same as classical conservatism. Bush took the GOP further to the left in terms of authoritarianism and state spending. We now want a return to the right.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for them to take a little homework with thm on this outing. Oh, I don't know, maybe something like this?

www.foundingfathers.info...

Sometimes it's good to look back to the beginning.