We need a place for Abductees moderated by Abductees

reply to post by neformore


I have never ever seen any abusive rude and insulting skeptic told there will be a one way ticket out the door. Why is that?

Originally posted by spacecowgirl
reply to post by atlasastro

 

Abduction threads are NOT FOR PEOPLE who don't believe in aliens. It would be like a cooking class for people who don't believe in ovens.
Or woodworking class for people who don't believe in trees. Waste of time...stay away!

There are many more ways to cook then just ovens, just as there are many more views on alien abduction than that of the abductee's.

I am sorry, but your analogy is about as logical as your pleading for a special thread. ATS is a public forum. All threads should be open to absolutely anybody. Just because one person does not accept the validity or truth in any one topic or thread should not exclude them from discussing the topic, Viewing the topic and interacting with other posters interested in the topic. People do this to learning about the beliefs of people who make these claims, and why they believe what they believe. Also, the forum should offer why people don't believe that alien abductions are real, as some people should here both sides of any one arguement or belief. I have been on threads discussing alien abductions and contact where the OP starts of detailing a belief and experience, only to come to the conclusion( after some dozens of pages of posts) that what he experienced was possibly a dream. If, in this example, no other alternative views or beliefs where discussed with this person claiming abduction then this person may have only heard from others that holding one belief, endangering this individual to make incorrect conclusions due to the biased nature of censoring other views and beliefs. This can also be applied in the reverse, where a poster will bring a strange experience to a thread, and those who believe Et's exist offer the view that this experience could be attributed to alien abduction. All views are valid, its up to the individual to accept or dismiss them.
I have learnt not to take every post personally. We all get emotional about our beliefs, especially when the are tested by rude or abrupt posts, but they will be tested here, on a PUBLIC forum. I don't see why people who believe they have been abducted by aliens should not have theirs tested too. Every other topic has this.

You posts appear angry.
You are upset.
Calm down.
One Mod(Skyfloating) started a thread for a new forum by asking ATS members to endorse his Idea via posts, stars and flags. Instead of attacking other beliefs and just complaining, maybe you could adopt this more practical and logical approach.
It seems to me that you are acting in a manner in which you, in your OP, complain about, that being rude behaviour derailing a thread by attacking the beliefs of another poster. You are doing yourself, and the topic of Alien Abduction more damage by acting in such an irrate and irrational manner.

reply to post by spacecowgirl


Really?

Interesting.

I can assure you that I have done so before in the past.

I have also banned people for being abusive - be they 'skeptic' or 'believer'...ones manner towards others has very little to do with whatever camp they may pitch their tent.


Peace.

I'll say this much after reading the last few posts. I don't agree with everything people post here and sometimes people do ruffle my feathers by posting material that really frosts my cookies! Rather than visiting the evolution/creation forum where I just KNOW I'm going to run into people who can't accept scientific explanations for evolution and the natural processes responsible for the diversification of life on Earth, I simply stay away. I have come to accept that no matter what I say, or how much evidence I present, I can't ever change some people's minds. If they don't want to learn, I can't make them. Ditto for the whole indigo (et al) child fad which, also annoys me to no end.

Now, with regards to the abduction phenomenon, I don't agree with what every abductee/experiencer or skeptic writes. Taking the discussion too seriously however (given that it IS a public forum), is guaranteed to get me into trouble with someone. I realize that many people here have been horribly traumatized by something in their lives (whether it's a genuine abduction or something else which manifests a similar array of symptoms). I also sympathize with those who happen to find themselves in that boat. I too wish I had a safe place to go as I am not yet aware of any such forum online where people can find support and answers anonymously. I would personally support the establishment of such a forum but I also realize why this may not be possible (regrettably).

Sometimes, clicking the "ignore" button just doesn't seem sufficient when you're dealing with a particularly cruel individual who seems bent on snapping your proverbial spine. We all despise that uneasy feeling in the pits of our stomachs when we just KNOW such people are continuing to tear our words apart, bit by bit. Removing their text from our own screens does not shield us from the damage these people continue to inflict. Just because we can't see what they're saying does not mean we can carry on as if they are not speaking at all.

Sadly, these are the current limitations of ATS and I accept that there is only so much we can do to maintain a climate of tolerance, civility, and respect. We require the vigilance of our mods. All we can do is hope they will make the right call and step in swiftly when things START to get out of control. Most of the time, they step in fairly quickly. Still, I have seen a few instances where a little more empathy could have done wonders for the thread.

I will be the first to admit that I hold information back because I worry about how others on ATS will perceive me. We may be anonymous, but only so far as our "real" identities are concerned. We build our "ATS reputations" with every post we create and whether we like it or not, we will all be labeled, judged, and criticized by others. It's just inevitable.

The nature of ATS ensures that, as well as attracting people who believe in things that the majority of people don't, it will attract people who think they can improve their own miserable lives by making fun of the "nutjobs" on ATS. Abductees may be easier targets than folks who have some sort of empirical evidence (such as the 9-11 "truthers"), but rest assured that the trolls are not singling out abductees or abductee threads over anyone else.

Those of us who post about the cookie-eating monster who appeared in our kitchen, the bigfoot who dumped the garbage and terrified the dog, the black eyed kid who wanted to use the phone, or the spiny creature who killed all the neighbor's chickens receive just as much ridicule and humiliation as you abductees do. If you want to share your experience and/or receive feedback from a wider audience, you'll have to live with it like the rest of us nutjobs do.

I have had a few good experiences with being very specific about what I want when authoring a thread. I provided a very clear description of the type of response I was looking for and the type of response I did NOT want, and found that mods were generally pretty good about backing me up in terms of marking posts that didn't comply "off topic" - especially if I politely informed them once that they were off topic and they posted again in a similar vein.

So I would suggest that you might author an abductee thread and state very clearly - in bold if you like - that you do not want any debunking or alternate theories and that you only want to discuss similar experiences or reactions to experiences or .. whatever it is that you want to discuss. Undoubtedly you'll still get a few trolls, but after one polite reminder you can inform a Mod that they are off topic, which, according to your OP, they will be.

That said, stereotyping doesn't help anyone. I happen to be a redneck who has personally seen a UFO and has a lot of curiousity about the subject and about abductions. I don't appreciate being categorized negatively just because I live on 10 acres in the boonies and have a dead car in the driveway.

Many other terms can also be stereotypes, and seem to be particularly prone to that type of misuse on ATS. I was extremely skeptical about the "forward this angel to 12 friends and you'll get a financial windfall" email I recieved a few minutes ago, but I'm certainly not skeptical about UFOs since I've seen one and I don't think it was a "blackops" project. So am I a skeptic, or not? You can't - ok, you can, but you shouldn't - pigeonhole people into boxes, evaluate everything they say through the filtering imposed by the box you've placed them in, and then expect to be able to have any meaningful communication with them.

I ask some awkward questions at times, I'm sure, but I'm genuinely interested in the abduction phenomenon and remain open-minded about it, willing to consider all views and experiences. It's not in your best interest to shut me out, because then I'll only hear the "skeptical" viewpoint and be more likely to lean that way.

If you want to collect eggs you'll have to walk through some chicken poop. If you want to have meaningful dialogue and discussion on ATS, you'll have to get past a few trolls. That's just the way it is.

ok this is getting ugly and out of hand in my opinion, not my place to speak really but this thread in the UFO forum is the same subject matter with a different title. this is the discussion of how you run things and has nothing to do with UFO'S or Aliens and is really an eye sore.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The aggressive, personally insulting stance of "skeptics" who aren't really that, they are bullies, who attack personal stories given in the grey area, which has been set aside for exactly those kind of stories is not something you can just ignore. They literally make the thread so unpleasant for those sharing, that it is shut down. They shut down the threads experiencers participate on in an area where they may do so. The rules that mods come on and state, that this is an area where no one can demand proof etc etc, and not to repeat things over and over, are blatantly ignored. Over and over again, a person's sanity is questioned, if its shared, they're all suffering from group hysteria, and constant demands for proof are given. I've personally seen pages reorganized so posts that weren't above the ones given are put in, and this shuffle changes the event profile of the page, and can even slant something the skeptics way. And no I'm not going to search for all those pages to see it, but I'm going to start taking notes of it from now on when its happening. Now that kind of thing makes my suspicious mind, you know I do like conspiracy websites after all, think that these "skeptics" work for the government and are given some kind of priority over normal posts.
In the end it doesn't matter, the posters give up, and are very upset by the abuse they're put through. And they're in the thread hoping to hear from others who either are experiencers themselves or are interested in the situation and have suggestions and ideas to examine, usually the motive of the ets behind this. Because experiencers know its happening, and they're on a search for motives.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by mystiq



i agree with you Mystiq, the bullies and pranksters will make a thread go downhill fast.

a thread about an abduction experience is going to attract the trouble makers just like if you were on a public street telling your story. it would be expected in my opinion.

i have seen other places that require you to apply for membership to join and you cannot post or become a member unless the group accepts you and they think your sincere. that would be the only place i would think of to go and talk to someone in that situation.

a public forum though ? no way


truthfully i think any abductee's that wants to talk to someone should be consulting professional counseling and get advice from them on where to further their discussions.

not really sure if ATS is the right place for it

I don't know but I'm going to have to disagree with you, due to the wonderful threads I have read on ATS. One of the most remarkable ones I do occasionally link to, but I almost feel like I shouldn't keep doing it and expose her yet again to possible more abuse from skeptics, when she is such a lovely person. Yet without these threads, a large number of people would never have considered some of the options except for what militia or black ops or Greer says.
This would take a large amount of information away from many people. Some of them are only becoming aware themselves of things in their own lives and are really looking for answers. Those answers shouldn't be "controlled and possible disinfo" as the official accounts may be, or buried under layers on remote and hard to find sites. They should be here for others to benefit from. If someone only has the purpose of being incredibly aggressive and rude and questioning ones sanity, then they shouldn't be on the thread. Suggesting something once should be enough.

reply to post by mystiq


yes your right it does give options for them to consider that may not be part of a mind control situation and there are many nice people on here i will also agree but the fact remains that if the thread isn't heavily monitored the same thing is going to keep happening.

here is a perfect example

www.abovetopsecret.com...

also with self counseling and the possibility of armchair advice being given out by anyone, ATS could find that to be a liability issue ?

Self counseling? You presume that abductee/contactees run off to counselors for advice? They only do that if they're having other "problems" not experiences that are related to ets or sightings of crafts, shared by so many. Often shared by other family members, and even friends.
The armchair skeptics doing amateur diagnosis on people who do not require it, now thats another matter.

I don't think most counselors would handle this topic well at all! I'd expect them to swiftly refer people in that situation to a psychiatrist (someone who can prescribe medication) rather than deal with it themselves. I don't know about all of you but my emails to the "experts" have always been ignored. I should think that if one's goal is to educate the public about abduction, the least they could do is answer their email once in a while! Sheesh!

reply to post by spacecowgirl


As I understand it "rednecks" make up a fair number of abductees.
Might want to redefine that a bit. Most abductees seem to be from suburban and rural areas.

Originally posted by badgerprints
reply to post by spacecowgirl

 

As I understand it "rednecks" make up a fair number of abductees.
Might want to redefine that a bit. Most abductees seem to be from suburban and rural areas.

True, many seem to be from rural and suburban areas but this isn't always the case. Maybe it's just easier to reach people if they aren't living in a densely populated area. What I want to know is why certain people are selected. Clearly, they aren't taking everyone inhabiting the countryside so why are some taken and others aren't? What traits are being selected for?

reply to post by X-tal_Phusion


Abductions occur through many many generations. Aliens are not restricted in time and space, as such they can actually go back in time and abduct a family member many generations back, It usually follows in families.

Originally posted by spacecowgirl

I started this thread after a skeptic destroyed, yet again, an abductees testimony, by insisting we were all psychos or nuts or scitzos or had sleep paralysis.

I'm afraid that is a possibility, it's your job to provide actual proof that you are not crazy, and that the stories you tell are factual.

I for one am most convinced by the Travis Walton story.

I was always under the impression that places here like skunk works and the gray area were expressly for an experiencer to tell their story without having to provide reams and reams of evidence. Often, with an abduction experience, all you may have is your own subjective experience to go on. You may or may not have some odd markings on your body, or an implant, but how can that be proved over the internet? If you have pictures, a lot of people will just say you somehow manipulated the image

From what I've seen, these types who jump in demanding evidence or declaring the person a liar or crazy are rarely if ever stopped in those particular forums.

A true skeptic isn't going to jump in right off the bat with the "you need mental help" thing or the "you're lying" thing. That, to me is just plain being a bully, and serves no other purpose than to make the experiencer less likely to unburden themselves anywhere.

The fact is that people are experiencing strange things these days. There are just too many documented accounts to say that all these folks are crazy or lying or misinterpreting sleep paralysis.

That being said, I think the possibility exists that ATS may not be the very best place to out your story.

For those who want help to understand what's happening to them, there are far kinder places on the internet for just that very thing.

reply to post by spacecowgirl


Yes, but... why were certain families selected in the first place? This is the underlying pattern I am most curious about. I would be very surprised if the initial round of selection was random. Since exceptions exist where locations are concerned (urban vs. rural/suburban), then there must be some reason why aliens would be willing to risk being seen in order to abduct certain people who happen to be living in urban settings.

The risk of being witnessed is clearly justified by some other unknown factor. What could be so pressing that they would risk taking someone from a densely populated city? Are all urban abductees merely the descendants of suburban or rural abductees or is there something more? Are all urban abductees lying or do they carry traits considered important for some mysterious purpose? IF cases exist where first-generation abductees were taken from cities, then what compelled these extraterrestrial captors to perform these acts?

I am simply trying to analyze this phenomenon in a step-wise and logical fashion without passing judgment one way or the other. I realize how difficult it can be for someone of my background to be respectful and sympathetic to those who place a greater emphasis on faith and intuition. On the other hand, I have experienced things which are beyond my comprehension and call for the synthesis of an entirely new analytical schema. Experiences change the way people perceive the world and I'm certainly no exception. I know I would be a lot less forgiving if I had not been molded by my experiences and limited myself to my academic training. I don't know whether these changes will be deleterious or beneficial in the long run but they are what they are.

Until then, I have many more questions than answers and no matter how well-read any of us claim to be, we can always gain more from listening to each other.

reply to post by X-tal_Phusion


Hi There,

I've just started THIS THREAD within the Gray Area Forum as a place to put ones thoughts/opinions around why perhaps abductions happen to specific people/families.

...just didn't wish to see this thread go 'off-topic' with continuing discussion around any possible theories in regards to the question you ask above.

hope thats of benefit.


Cheers.

reply to post by alien


Thanks! I appreciate that.