Californias Proposition 8

here is the proposition:
en.wikipedia.org...(2008)
Proposition 8 is an initiative measure on the 2008 California General Election ballot titled Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry.[1][2] If passed, the proposition would "change the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California."[3] A new section would be added stating "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."[3]

my thoughts

I know why certain people are voting for it. Marriage was created as a way to recognize the union of a man and a woman, who will create children and stabilize the future of mankind. Gays cannot produce children, and even if they do adopt, studies show that children thrive in the environment of a mother and a father....rather than two mommies or daddies....These people feel that for the betterment of mankind, we need to recognize and protect this union as the only true way to continue thriving and evolving as humans. Some of these people fear that the youth could be corrupt by society..they feel that being gay is not natural, not a choice, so lets protect our children from having to be exposed.

On the same note the bible does say that same sex encounters are a sin. Lets face it we are all sinners in one way or another. Unless you are directly affecting another person, or life of other people in a harmful way, then one sin is no worse than another. That is where I find the vote to be harmful. When its a faith based decision. You cannot make laws against another person because you think that the lifestyle is wrong based on sin. Sarah Palin's daughter is having a child out of wedlock. That is a sin. Should we now make a law that forces her to get married to that boy to absolve her from that sin? Guess it doesnt really matter because she had sex out of wedlock, which is a sin that cannot change..... Its a slippery slope that doesn't end. The faith based argument does not work here.

Finally, and the most dangerous is the fact that people are going to vote for the prop because they hate fags. They wish them all dead, and will do anything to keep them down. Fortunately I think that you are not this type so I wont even spend any time on it........

So then we have the two reasons that some would vote for prop 8, and I think that the latter can be seen as more of an act of ignorance as to the logic of such a vote. The first to me would be more difficult to argue against because the burden of proof lies within the scientific ability to prove that being gay is or is not a naturally occurring event. That is purely based on opinion.

As a Cali resident and a mail in voter, I already voted Yes on 8. Its not because I hate gays or think its a sin or marriage needs to be protected. The states should be allowed to choose what they will accept and WE ALREADY DID THAT! Remember? Prop 22? It was to keep marriage defined as being between a male and a female and the voters voted for it! It was overturned by judges. I am simply supporting the voters that have already spoken and are now forced to speak again on the same issue.

The judges overturned your vote because you're wrong.

I have doubt that you would vote for a prop because you feel the public already made the decision on prop 22: "Adds a provision to the Family Code providing that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

I think that the point is that there really is no valid argument against gay marriage unless you are wanting to discriminate....you are religious....or you really dont get it.

Its not about the voter, its about a personal decision for human rights. I wish you would have taken that into consideration rather than appeasing the vote of the less informed.

Right/wrong its all subjective. The voters spoke. Period.

On the same token, if the voters had voted it down and voted to legalize gay marriage I would support that too. It should not be up to the judges.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by SuperSecretSquirrel]

Sometimes I'm glad we don't have a democracy, because situations like this prove democracy is an awful way to do things.

I really don't understand what the big deal is, Marriage is not a contract between 2 people, it is a contract between 3 entities - the 2 humans and the state.

You can still have whoever you choose as a beneficiary of your estate/will/insurance without being married

Domestic Partnership acknowledgments have been enacted to allow health insurance for same sex couples.

Why is that one little piece of paper that only really constitutes a contract with the state so important?

And that question goes out to ANY couple who is thinking of marriage

There's a great article on this subject here:
Proposition 8 vs. Black Homophobia

An African-American lesbian explains why she's hopeful that an "Obama Effect" won't kill gay marriage in California.

cont...

The Obama candidacy has energized African-Americans. Black voter registration is up, which bodes well for him. But here's the rub: Could a large black turnout also bode well for the passage of Proposition 8? Those who would ban same-sex marriage certainly hope so. They are counting on the "Obama Effect" to enlist black voters, along with conservative Latinos, into their ranks. Frank Schubert, co-campaign manager for Yes on 8, says that, "[T]o the extent that they are motivated to get to the polls, whether by this issue or by Barack Obama, it helps us."

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel


So then slavery was right because people felt that it was legitimate? Denying the right for women to vote was also right?

You have to take a step back and realize that sometimes people make the wrong decision. I dont care who voted to discriminate against gay people...the fact remains...its wrong

reply to post by gramercy


Are you joking? Allowing gays to get married and slavery are not even related. Gays have the right to vote and the right to recruit people to vote. Same with the opposition. Those votes should be honored no matter who casts them.

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel


Its discrimination on a basic fundamental level...they are being treated differently because a group of people think that they are above them...It is ABSOLUTELY comparable.

Judges ruled the prop as unconstitutional yet we are voting again on it. This is why we have checks and balances...we live in a society where the radical Christian right has begun to poison the progression of us as Americans. Although we have been subjected to government stepping in, there are times in which it is necessary.

reply to post by gramercy


What the hell are we voting for then? Lets just have the benevolent government and judiciary system make all of our laws without us!

The people have spoken and that is paramount. If your gay and want to get married, go to Massachusetts. That is the beauty of each state being able to decide for itself what is allowed and what is not.

I am not saying that it is fair because it is not, but life isn't fair so we deal with it.

Want to make a bet
I believe the courts will overturn prop 8 and your yes on 8 vote will all be for nothing.

All those millions of out of state money in the effort to change a Calif law there should be a law that only money from a state can be used to change laws in that state by proposition.

There is to much out of state money being used to influence the laws in a state.
and i am not talking about prop 8

Also you can not bring GOD into the prop 8 case

That would be a violation of the 1st Amendment and if it can be shown that the Yes on 8 group was funded by out of state religious groups this could be used to overturn prop8 if it passes.

I will be voting NO on Prop 8. I am in California.

In fact, later this week I will be "protesting" at a few busy intersections.

And before you accuse this of being a gay parade, you should know we are going to the same intersections the Yes on Prop 8 "protesters" were at a week before

I am voting NO on Prop 8 mostly for two reasons:

1) If this gets passed then it revokes the Marriage of couples that are already married. That is ridiculous!!

2) I believe in Equality.

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel


If I am gay and want to get married I dont want to have to go to another state to get married......Hey you want to marry a redhead...well you have to go to Arizona to do that because we dont support that here....Its that ridiculous.

We vote for our elected officials and we depend in them to clean up the mess. There is no doubt that have become a christian nation and there is no doubt that there is a struggle for power. Plain and simple, the rights of human kind trump the religious beliefs of the ignorant.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by gramercy]

reply to post by ANNED


I can't disagree with that. I would be POed if prop 8 passed and was again overturned. Hey, I guess if I don't like it I can move to another state!

Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel
Are you joking? Allowing gays to get married and slavery are not even related

They are related, just in a different way. Both having been discriminated against because of things they had no control over.

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel


If the ignorant move then the local society benefits.....there is no reason that you have presented that is for prop 8.
The voters did what they did years ago...how do you feel about the situation?

reply to post by gramercy


Our elected officials? Um, the judges are appointed. You had no say in the matter. And this nation has become a "christian nation"? Do you not know that this country was FOUNDED with Christianity being the beliefs of the vast majority of the people?? This is equivocal to moving to Iran and saying what a "Muslim" country this has become.

Like I said, I am not saying that it is fair for the gays. It is not. I simply stated that I voted Yes on 8 because I believe that the people should decide what is best for them. NOT JUDGES.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by SuperSecretSquirrel]

Democracy isn't a tool for group A to take away rights from group B.

That's why we have courts to overturn the ignorant unwashed masses. Democratic votes should never be used to deny rights, especially against a certain group. That is known as discrimination.