Genesis anomalies

Ok this is about the bible and other related religious texts only not about the existence of any divine god or whatever.
My problem is this.
If Genesis is to be considered real, then why does it have serious anomalies?
Here is just one of them.
Adam and Eve were the first people?Yes?
And adam and eve had 2 sons Cain and Abel yes?
Here is the story.

According to Genesis, Cain and Abel were the first and second sons of Adam and Eve, born after the Fall of Man.Their story is told in Genesis 4:1-16, the Qur'an at 5:26-32, and Moses 5:16-41. In all versions, Cain, a farmer, commits the first murder by killing his brother Abel, a shepherd, after God rejects Cain's sacrifice but accepts Abel's.

Ok so the first 2 people born from the first 2 people.
One kills the other etc etc.
Then we get this.

Then the Lord said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"
"I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"
Then He said, "What have you done? Your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground! So now you are cursed with alienation from the ground that opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood you have shed.
If you work the land, it will never again give you its yield. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."
But Cain answered the Lord, "My punishment is too great to bear! Since You are banishing me today from the soil, and I must hide myself from Your presence and become a restless wanderer on the earth, whoever finds me will kill me."
Then the Lord replied to him, "In that case, whoever kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over." And he placed a mark on Cain so that whoever found him would not kill him. Then Cain went out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Why would God, put a mark on Cain so other PEOPLE would know who he was?
And why would Cain be worried about being killed by other people?
If they were the first people?

his parents didnt like him obviously

he was scared mommy and daddy would kill him

then next question to ask your self is why when he got his wife(who didnt really exist anywhere as adama and eve hadnt any more kids) and had a son did he build a whole city for just the 3 of them

and if he was condemned to wander the land forever by god how did he manage to stay in 1 place and live in said 3 man city

Yeah that was gonna be my next bit.
How the heck did Cain have kids?
"And Cain new his wife, and she conceived and bare Enoch".
Ummmm???There was no other people to get wives?
All of a sudden, all these people start appearing out of nowhere.
Some religious texts say he married his sister.
What about birth defects?
And it doesn't seem to speak of Adam and Eve having more children.
Adam and Eve, Genesis, is a religious conspiracy.
And our whole system of murder law is based upon this.
Especially for states who have the death penalty.
That would mean killing a murderer would curse you seven fold.
Even worse than the murderer.

reply to post by Interestinggg


You do realize that Adam and Eve had other children right?

I do not believe that Cain and Able were there first children either.

Also, it may not have been "people" Cain was so worried about, but some other "beings".

-Lahara

I don't go out of my way to defend the Bible but I've wondered about this.

I was discussing this with a Jewish friend the other day, in fact.

We compared it to the history of European people in the Americas. American history from their perspective goes back abotu 600 years, but the history of people in those two continents extends back some 10 000 or more years.

I think the same thing could be said for the Bible... the history of Adam and Eve and their decendants may only be 6000 years, but the history of people on earth goes back far longer... archaology definitely supports that.

It's too bad god wasn't there to tell us what happened. It wouldn't hurt if he'd drop in once in a while to give us the good info either.

if you're willing to accept that these things are only "anomolies" and the whole thing isn't misrepresented tosh then i can see the problem.

don't give credit to the rest of it just because that part doesn't make sense to you. god the great wonderful man makes up a flesh and blood creature from dirt that's just one step above a monkey. WOW. how impressive.

at least he could've put vaginas on our hands or something!

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Mozzy]

There were lesser humanoids present AROUND the garden.

This is why the garden was placed, so that this 'experiment' of jumped-evolution could take place safely.

Beyond the Garden of Eden lie the Homo-erectus, definitely Neanderthals, and possibly others. Definitely enough to look "human" until you're up close, then they become terrifying looking. :-)



Here's food for thought:

The Mongolian Spot: en.wikipedia.org...

"A Mongolian Spot, Mongolian Fleck or Mongolian Blue Spot is a benign flat congenital birthmark with wavy borders and irregular shape, most common among East Asians and Turks, and named after Mongolians. It is also extremely prevalent among East Africans and Native Americans.[1][2] It normally disappears three to five years after birth and almost always by puberty.[3] The most common color is blue, although they can be blue-gray, blue-black or even deep brown"

Mongolian spots are most prevalent among Mongols, Turks, and other Asian groups, such as the Chinese, Japanese, and especially the Korean. Nearly all East Asian infants are born with one or more Mongolian spots. The incidence of Mongolian spot among East Asian infants is 90-95%. It is also common if only one of the parents is East Asian.

The incidence among Caucasians, that is, the indigenous peoples of Europe, the Middle East, North Africa and the Indian subcontinent (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka) is between 1-10%

Here's a picture of a baby's bum with a mongolian spot, from wikipedia.


you know, once upon a time .. if you weren't born with a mongolian spot, considering it is 95% prevalent, i'd imagine they may have killed you for various primitive reasons. Cain's descendants could all have the mongolian spot, its just an idea I had, not much meat to it. Cain could've actually been cycled into a constant reincarnation, and thus would always be born with a mongolian spot. or, the text could be symbolic, meaning when Cain says "theyll surely kill me" he meant "theyll surely kill my NATION" .. as the bible so commonly replaces nations with the names of their first leader.

[edit on 10/30/2008 by runetang]

The argument I have always heard is that Cain and Abel were several hundred years old by this time, and they had married their sisters (more on this later), and had kids, who had grown up and had children, and so on. So there was a small population of people by the time of this occurrence.

Marrying one's sister at the beginning was not forbidden by God because the human DNA structure was still pretty much perfect, not having had much chance to mutate and pass on errors, since they were in the early generations. Therefore it was not until later, as the gene pool became corrupt, that the prohibition of incest became necessary.

I am not saying I agree with this necessarily. But I am a Christian and that is what Christians teach.

As somebody else has already explained, Adam had more children than simply Cain and Abel, they were just the first, and also as somebody else has explained, it doesn't say how old Cain and Abel were when Cain killed him. Chapter 5 of Genesis shows that Adam had more children...

GENESIS 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begot sons and daughters:

Since Cain was worried about the others killing him, obviously this was well after the other children of Adam had bred.

Originally posted by doctorex
Since Cain was worried about the others killing him, obviously this was well after the other children of Adam had bred.

Why would those 'children' be outside Eden and wandering around killing people?

The story is full of contradictions and impossibilities, like most of the stories in the bible. Trying to explain away the contradictions just makes them all the more obvious. If there's any truth at all in the story, it is most likely a legend of early tribes - the Adams, the Cains, the Abels, etc. It's all there really, inter-marriage, warfare, trade, agriculture, exile, nation building.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Originally posted by doctorex
Since Cain was worried about the others killing him, obviously this was well after the other children of Adam had bred.

Why would those 'children' be outside Eden and wandering around killing people?

The story is full of contradictions and impossibilities, like most of the stories in the bible. Trying to explain away the contradictions just makes them all the more obvious.

It's only a contradiction if you don't know the details. The whole family was outside of Eden at this point, they were out of eden before even the birth of any children, and it doesn't say they were all wondering around killing people, Cain was the first murderer, and he knew his story would get around...

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

He feared vengeance.

[edit on 30/10/08 by doctorex]

Originally posted by noobfun
did he build a whole city for just the 3 of them

if he was condemned to wander the land forever by god how did he manage to stay in 1 place and live in said 3 man city

The Hebrew words translated at "build" (banah) and "city" (`iyr) have more than these simple meanings. Banah means also to establish, to begin to build, even having connotations of a family, and 'iyr means also town, or even a mere encampment.

This verse isn't saying Cain built an entire city, but that what he did build began or established the site of a city, or maybe even only a township. It all comes down to how it is translated that throws people off.

Banah - www.blueletterbible.org...

'iyr - www.blueletterbible.org...

[edit on 30/10/08 by doctorex]

reply to post by doctorex


Right, his 'brothers and sisters' were going to hunt him down and kill him, just after he committed the first ever murder and got exiled for it. God has to put a special mark on him so that his brothers and sisters know not to kill him. Then he goes off and builds a city on his own. No contradictions there...

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
reply to post by doctorex

 

Right, his 'brothers and sisters' were going to hunt him down and kill him, just after he committed the first ever murder and got exiled for it. God has to put a special mark on him so that his brothers and sisters know not to kill him. Then he goes off and builds a city on his own. No contradictions there...

Like I said, it's only a contradiction if you don't know the details. Look at the post above yours to see what I'm talking about. And not believing something is different from a contradiction. Where is the contradiction in your post?

[edit on 30/10/08 by doctorex]

It's fable

fairystory

doesn't stand up to even casual scrutiny


God did not write the Bible. That needs to be established

Man wrote the Bible. Fallible man.

Let's make that plural = men


And I'll guarantee those men sure as hell did not, in their wildest ambitions, imagine that thousands of years later, people would be trying to make it 'true' ... anymore than Walt Disney expected people to believe and argue for (thousands of years later) that Mickey Mouse was a real mouse.

If it was Cain's brothers and sisters who were going to kill him, surely they would have known what he looked like and there was no need to mark him?
So obviously, someone else was trying to kill him.

Maybe the children of Adam's first wife??

Contradictions aplenty methinks.

Originally posted by Interestinggg
Ok this is about the bible and other related religious texts only not about the existence of any divine god or whatever.
My problem is this.
If Genesis is to be considered real, then why does it have serious anomalies?
Here is just one of them.
Adam and Eve were the first people?Yes?
And adam and eve had 2 sons Cain and Abel yes?

If you would bother to actually read the bible you would find Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans......man was created on the 6th day...

Genesis 1:

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

now several chapeter later God creates Adam...........

Genesis 2:

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Adam was created AFTER the seventh day.........Adam was seperate from other humans......Adam means "ruddy"........

God can count and he does not have altzhiemers, he does not lose track of what he said yesterday...........

Ok "mankind on 6th day.....Adam AFTER 7th day........got it?

Many people who don't believe in the Bible often run to science and say, "now this makes sense." But Genesis, to understand, requires a scientific mind, which many people turn off when the read the Bible.

Consider this...The majority of humans are considered to be the "beasts of the field" in Genesis. While only Adam and Eve are considered to be Man.

Its not that difficult to grasp when it is accepted that humans are described as animals in other books. I think Daniel. The Wholly goat being the Greeks, the Ram being the Persian. etc.

Nevertheless, if this can't be understood, consider this...

What we are began as a single celled asexual organism that reproduced by budding. We all know from basic genetics that the male of our species carrys one X and one Y chromosome, while the female of our species carries two X's. In the primordial ooze Adam was just a single celled asexual organism that reproduced itself by budding, which explains the idea of Eve being taken from his side. This is the basic framework which never changes. This never changes it is a biological rule, which is obviously understood in Genesis.

So, what Genesis is trying to communicate is that the Earth was fully populated, but that one of these people is the First man. In the new testament I read or heard something about John saying concerning Jesus that Jesus was born (according to the physical/material) after him but that Jesus was before him (according to the spiritual/energetic).

Consider this...I went to my friends house. He has seven brothers and seven sisters, all by the same two parents. How many people live in the house? According to the material/physical, 17 people live in the house. According to the spiritual/energetic, only 2 people live in the house. from an even deeper spiritual perspective, the answer could be four. This is when you get into a discussion about the grandparents who you know exist but may not be present, and so on and so on.

This line of thinking is how I discovered an anomaly about my own household and the absence of adult males. There were male children, but no Adults. This is how I discovered that the men of my house had been either destroyed or made to leave for various reasons. This is when the great war began.

The Book of Genesis and many books of the Bible are obviously being written so the reader will look at the world according to energetic/spiritual principles. An observation beyond contention and perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately, people try to understand the book from the physical.

This is why you don't understand it. I assure you its not that book that is mistaken, it is you.

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by Interestinggg
If you would bother to actually read the bible you would find Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans......man was created on the 6th day...

Genesis 1:

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

now several chapeter later God creates Adam...........

Genesis 2:

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Adam was created AFTER the seventh day.........Adam was seperate from other humans......Adam means "ruddy"........

God can count and he does not have altzhiemers, he does not lose track of what he said yesterday...........

Ok "mankind on 6th day.....Adam AFTER 7th day........got it?

The two quotes you showed are actually talking of the same event. The word translated as "Man" in Gen 1:26 is Adam, the word you mentioned meaning ruddy, and the same word is used later in Chapter 2 talking of this same event.

Originally posted by heliosprime

God can count and he does not have altzhiemers, he does not lose track of what he said yesterday...........

Well actually .....

Genesis 6:

19. And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

20. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Genesis 7:

2. Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

Make up your mind will you YHWH! I've just been out and caught a pair of every fowl and now you want me to get another 6 pairs