The Great Conspiracy-what if Jesus was never born?

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by redled
If you look at history, it is one lie placed on top of another.

That's EXACTLY IT!




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies

Originally posted by redled
If you look at history, it is one lie placed on top of another.

That's EXACTLY IT!


So just get lying for the common good. As long as we believe it..... It will sound more and more like capitalism......



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


UMMMM.......... I'm not advocating lying, just finding out what is a lie and what is the truth
and going from there.

History has a LOT of lies utilized for power.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Clearskies]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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MP,

Your transparency is refreshing!!!

I am glad you are grateful...now...

Chances are though...life will throw you a curve...in the future.

Pls never forget HE and OT are just a prayer/U2U away...



Are you claiming to be the Messiah?

Are you claiming to be the spokesman for Christ?

Are you trying to step between me and Jah with the audacity to claim that you could be my savior? That you would have the life experience and spiritual ability to council me? You have the effrontery to put yourself in the same sentence with Jesus? That in itself is blasphemy.

Or are you into black magic, or sorcery, and feel that you know me and know my journey and that I have fallen and need your help?

You are using the mental health dysfunctional tactic of; luring people into your web and then slapping them! Is this what Jesus would have done? Are you a champion of Jesus or your are you promoting your own self interests and your fanaticism? Not a race baiter, but a religious baiter?

Are you looking to set yourself up to be victimized so then you can scream wolf, and claim "religious persecution?"

Shame on you for your arrogance and self-righteousness! You must have had your humility valeted! And Christians wonder why religion is going down?



??

OT confused here...my above-stated response, was/is a complement, to you...right?

1) No I'm not the Messiah...I didn't say I WAS...

2) I hope I am a follower/spokesman for HIM...I've known Him for 35 yrs...

3) Yes, I am trying to 'step between you and Jah...I call that 'INTERSESSION' It's a good thing bro... as corny as it may seem, see... www.youtube.com...

4) Yes, I have the life experience...if you only knew...?

5) No, OT is a servant...not the master!

6) Yes, YOU HAVE FALLEN!!!!! Just like me!!!!!

7) No luring!!!! No slap!!!! It's all on you bro....on YOU!

8) Me...?...persecuted? Hardly...I live in America...

BUT I GUARANTEE YOU THIS!!!!!

MOVE OT ANYWHERE...YES ANYWHERE....

I WILL FEAR NO MAN!!!!!

NO MAN!!!!!

MY faith is strong, real, unchallangable...

All I'm am doing is showing you concern....and you get pissed off and claim messiah-ship....

??????

Please, get offf my thread...grow up...!!!!!!

OT disappointed...for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by redled
 


UMMMM.......... I'm not advocating lying, just finding out what is a lie and what is the truth
and going from there.

History has a LOT of lies utilized for power.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Clearskies]


And we can't undo them, so we need to replace them with our own lies, we cannot convince anyone of the truth, history shows it. So replace their terrible lies with our beautiful ones......



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
If God hadn't sent Jesus, I would've probably overdosed and died sometime around 1993.
I WOULDN'T know life and happiness and hope.
I would be a pawn of the devil.



Clearskies,

GREAT POINT!!!!!!

Life, hapiness and hope...are Jesus' specialty!!!!

Welcome to OT's thread...you are SO welcome...



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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if Jesus was never born?
what would the world we live in look like?


Rather than debating Christainity vs the world, I'll speculate and try to actually answer the question:

1) Judaism would be much bigger than it is.

2) It's possible there would be more animal sacrifices going on in the world today.

3) The Catholic Church, and everything that exists as a consequence of it would probably not exist. This is big. No habit-wearing nuns, no "catholic schoolgirl" plaid skirts, no pope, no "Santa Claus," no Crusades, no Spanish Inquisition, there would be fewer people in the world for lack of the "no contraception" rule,...it's a very long list. The Catholic Church has been a huge contributor to history over the past 1500 years.

4) No Joan of Arc, and thus France would probably still belong to England.

5) Homosexuals would probably generally have faced less persecution throughout history.

6) Spain would probably not have colonized the Americas with quite as much fervor. The people of Middle America would not have been conquered, and thus the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Toltecs, etc. would perhaps still be powers today. The genetics of that part of the world would be very different for lack of crossbreeding with the European Spanish peoples, and there would probably be a greater variety of native languages spoken. The area would be considerably wealthier, and more culturally distinct. Also, not so many places in California would have Spanish names.

7) World war 2 would have played out differently, but it's difficult to speculate how. It's quite possible Hitler would never have come to power, for lack of support he had amonst Christian Germans. Surprised? Consider a few quote from his book My New Order: "In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross."

I could go on...but I'm sure after #7 most people will have stopped listening.

Some good, some bad, some indifferent. Personally I would be very sad to see catholic schoolgirl skirts go away. But, fewer animal sacrifices is a good thing.

Take it for what you will.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by LordBucket]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket


if Jesus was never born?
what would the world we live in look like?


Rather than debating Christainity vs the world, I'll speculate and try to actually answer the question:

1) Judaism would be much bigger than it is.

2) It's possible there would be more animal sacrifices going on in the world today.

3) The Catholic Church, and everything that exists as a consequence of it would probably not exist. This is big. No habit-wearing nuns, no "catholic schoolgirl" plaid skirts, no pope, no "Santa Claus," no Crusades, no Spanish Inquisition, there would be fewer people in the world for lack of the "no contraception" rule,...it's a very long list. The Catholic Church has been a huge contributor to history over the past 1500 years.

4) No Joan of Arc, and thus France would probably still belong to England.

5) Homosexuals would probably generally have faced less persecution throughout history.

6) Spain would probably not have colonized the Americas with quite as much fervor. The people of Middle America would not have been conquered, and thus the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Toltecs, etc. would perhaps still be powers today. The genetics of that part of the world would be very different for lack of crossbreeding with the European Spanish peoples, and there would probably be a greater variety of native languages spoken. The area would be considerably wealthier, and more culturally distinct. Also, not so many places in California would have Spanish names.

7) World war 2 would have played out differently, but it's difficult to speculate how. It's quite possible Hitler would never have come to power, for lack of support he had amonst Christian Germans. Surprised? Consider a few quote from his book My New Order: "In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross."

I could go on...but I'm sure after #7 most people will have stopped listening.

Some good, some bad, some indifferent. Personally I would be very sad to see catholic schoolgirl skirts go away. But, fewer animal sacrifices is a good thing.

Take it for what you will.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by LordBucket]


LB, Finally!!!!!!!

A response to the OP!!!!!!

You are the man!!!!!!

Well thought through!!!!!

Don't agree with most, but intellectually pure!!!!!


BTW, whats your gig on JC...who do you say he is...?"



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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[On second thought, I think my post was off topic,
so I'm editing it out to save people the trouble of reading it.]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Viral]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:50 PM
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I want to bring up some links for what I said before.

Ancient Chinese Writing
Ancient Chinese Science
Indian Science
Ayurvedic Medicine
Ancient Sanskrit
Ancient Egyptian science and alchemy--I completely forgot to mention this in my previous post! Alchemy most definitly does not have its origins in Christian countries, although it is most known for being practiced during the Reneiscance, but our knowledge of of modern chemstry would be completely undeveloped if it wasn't for the work of the alchemists.
Information about the Iraquois Confederacy

Hope everyone enjoys.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


Very interesting answers! I didn't dare speculate on what would have been!

I don't think Europe as we know it would even exist.

We woudln't have the Americas as we know them without Europe to fund the expeditions and the Catholic Church trying to convert everyone.

We wouldn't even have had the two world wars, the French and AMerican revolutions, the Napolionic wars, so much more that we take for granted...



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


Hey, asmeone2,

How do you 'retitle' a link???

I usually say...see... link, and it's youtube.dot.whatever...

How do you get it to say whatever you want?




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by Viral
[On second thought, I think my post was off topic,
so I'm editing it out to save people the trouble of reading it.]

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Viral]


Viral, OK...thanks for being appropriate, with the post-thing...

You are always welcome...

OT



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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Finally!!!!!!!
A response to the OP!!!!!!


Heh...this is ATS. You didn't actually expect people to talk about your idea, did you?




whats your gig on JC...who do you say he is...?"


That's difficult to answer. I wasn't there. Everything I know about Jesus is extremely second-hand information. But...

1) I'm skeptical of the Bible. Anyone who wanted to interfere with Jesus' teaching had plenty of opportunity to do so at the various councils of Nicea.

2) I'm well aware of all the "God-man" concepts that were popular for the few thousand years prior to zero BC...but I look at it differently than athiests generally appear to. Yes, there are lots of historical records and folktales from various aprts of the world describing personas that describe Jesus very closely, some thousands of years before Jesus' alleged birth. Many take that as evidence that there was no Jesus, and that Jesus was simply yet another myth. Personally, with as many similar stories as there are, it seems to me more likely that there was a genuine historical figure, and he was given many names, of which Jesus could be one. That does call into question the traditional story of Jesus though...since many of these stories are too many thousands of years old to fit into the timeframe that most people seem to want to place Jesus. It's possible that there was a teacher by that name and he was somehow associated with earlier stories...but that's simply speculation. It's difficult to really settle with certainty on what probably happened. Especially given #1 above, we don't really have any reliable sources of information.

Personally, I find it much easier to dimiss Christianity than Jesus. Most of modern Christianity simply doesn't gel with my worldview, and if it is "true" then so much of my life's thoughts and beliefs would have to be completely untrue. I'm willing to consider that I may be wrong about things...but I've never really seen any particular reason to believe any of the "beliefs" that seem to go with Christianity. The whole Christian perspective on guilt and sin and redemption and blood atonement...it just doesn't work for me. But, I can't dismiss Jesus for that reason. There's nothing in my experience that contradicts the idea that is represented by the concept of Jesus. The idea of a consciousness of greater spiritual understanding incarnating into human form and visiting with us seems basically plausible to me.

However, given my particular notions about the universe, it seems unlikely to me that the ultimate destination of my "eternal soul" is dependant on arbitrarily placing my faith in one particular groups interpretation of an event that supposedly happened two thousand years ago.

Does that answer your question?



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I'm not sure what you're asking.

But you can click on the globe button above the text box when you make a post... (copy the URL for the link first) first it will give you a box for the text, then another one for your URL.

This is the code, if it doesn't work, but cut the spaces out:
[ url= url here ] text here [ /url ]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


Thanks LB....

OT is completely tired...I'll check back in the AM...and respond to your answer, ok?

OT



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 



OK, thx...

Good night...

I'll work on it tomorrow...

OT out



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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One last thought...

If there are any viewers late tonight...please respond to the OP...meaning what would life be like if Jesus had not been born? Specially for those areas I addressed in the op, ok?

Good night all

God bless

cya!!!!!!!!!



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:20 PM
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I'll point out this thread too; another memeber made an excellent list of ancient wonders, most of which antedate Christianity.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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OT, I reitterate:


Originally posted by Good Wolf
I for one don't like your religious narcissism.

First, it's debatable whether or not JC was even born in the first place. That's not a foregone conclusion.

But it doesn't matter because it's not the man that's affected so many throughout history, but the legend. But even if that wasn't there, that niche would just be filled by some other alleged anointed one. Afterall a lot of JCs teachings weren't new or unique. The Golden rule for instance was preached by Confucius long before Jesus's supposed birth. Many anthropologists believe that it was the first moral imperative of man, or archaic man rather. Hell the world would probably be practicing the religion of Akhenaten- the first christian.

Would the world be different? Yes, but not by much. All the goodness in the world is not attributed to Christianity in any way shape or form. Some of the worst things in the world are attributed to Christianity. Hitler was inspired by a book called 'On the Jews and their lies' written by Martin Luther, father of the protestant movement.





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