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The Great Conspiracy-what if Jesus was never born?

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posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:40 PM
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As a way of apology for roughing up OT earlier in the thread I will give some reasons why Christianity has some good points.

It gives its members boundaries.
It gives its members something to believe in, outside of themselves.
It gives them structure.
It gives them camaraderie.
It can give them strong principles to live by.

Despite knowledge otherwise, it can promote good morals.
They have something much deeper than comic books and video games to read.
It gives them hope!
It can acquaint someone with God or at least the concept of one.
It can promote at times - confidence and self-esteem.
Most of all; with some, it gives them a reason to live!

Thanks! Now, if anyone is interested in why I believe religion is not good - can choose to look below.




posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


I would add one more to that list.

It makes them happy.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Happy is what we are all trying to be, yeah?



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Yes, you are right, it makes them happy. And gives many; fulfillment!



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 


Yeah but it doesn't make everyone happy, doesn't make the people it hurts happy. too be blunt.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 

Then it is not real happiness then



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 


Aye?

I wasn't aware there was real and fake happiness



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 



Then it is not real happiness then


Some would argue that happiness comes from within. I have been genuinely happier outside religion. But that is my experience.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 



I wasn't aware there was real and fake happiness


There is liquid courage as there is liquid happiness.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Yeah sure, like there is real infinite love and there is fake love which is lust which is basically another form of fear.
Simply then you have either love or fear. Which ever one chooses to feel in each moment of time and space is entirely up to ones willful intent.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by Epsillion70
 



Then it is not real happiness then


Some would argue that happiness comes from within. I have been genuinely happier outside religion. But that is my experience.


If that makes you genuinely happy so be it. Religion never made me happy either after all it has never truly been about freedom, peace and love now has it?




[edit on 4-11-2008 by Epsillion70]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 


The Christian religion gives members preset morals and standards (whether or not followers adhere). The idea that outside of religion one forges his own morals and standards is not dissimilar to Sith philosophy.


I'm such a nerd.

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 



If that makes you genuinely happy so be it. Religion never made me happy either after all it has never truly been about freedom, peace and love now has it?


I look at perfection as freedom from bondage. What is bondage to one person may be a comfort zone to another. I never felt free while in religion. Leaving it, opened up a new universe of potential - spiritually.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Well that has been my own experience as well;
Religiosity = Servitude, separation, fear, hate, doubt, anger and war
Spirituality = Freedom, love, oneness, happiness, joy, certainty, and peace



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Epsillion70
 


The Christian religion gives members preset morals and standards (whether or not followers adhere). The idea that outside of religion one forges his own morals and standards is not dissimilar to Sith philosophy.


I'm such a nerd.

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Good Wolf]


Luke 17:21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And so each person if they look to their inner selves they can be directed to a moral code and structure and then they will know the egoic mind and know of its physical influences and so then one must;
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak -Matthew 26:41



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 


Well that's "a personal relationship with God" or when a person takes the scriptures to heart but that's not how organised religion works, at least for the most part. That kind of philosophy is not something I've seen often in the church.



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Epsillion70
 


Well that's "a personal relationship with God" or when a person takes the scriptures to heart but that's not how organised religion works, at least for the most part. That kind of philosophy is not something I've seen often in the church.


Well I personally understood that having a personal relationship with God/Allah/Yahweh/All That Is was what basically what a lot of the world Religions were originally about.
When one has that deep internal relationship. It seems though when one gives into temptation of the ego mind that is when spirituality lays dormant.
Until that moment once again when one sees the light again.
I personally understand that was what Jesus was trying to get across. Though the powers that be at that time didn't like the loss of their control on individuals. Hence Jesus being crucified



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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To all...

Congrats to President Elect Obama!!!

And thanks for your contribution to OT's thread...this thing is evolving to something postive...who would have thought it?

Also thanks to the ATS leadership and moderators for allowing this forum...great job all...

I'll address other questions later this week...

OT sleepy...



posted on Nov, 4 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 


Well I think we both know that most people aren't like that. I know more posers than I like to think about. So many use going to church to help label them as a nice person, yet every single week after church all they ever do is stand around in mobs exchanging gossip.

So....much....apathy!



posted on Nov, 5 2008 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by MatrixProphet
As a way of apology for roughing up OT earlier in the thread I will give some reasons why Christianity has some good points.

It gives its members boundaries.
It gives its members something to believe in, outside of themselves.
It gives them structure.
It gives them camaraderie.
It can give them strong principles to live by.

Despite knowledge otherwise, it can promote good morals.
They have something much deeper than comic books and video games to read.
It gives them hope!
It can acquaint someone with God or at least the concept of one.
It can promote at times - confidence and self-esteem.
Most of all; with some, it gives them a reason to live!

Thanks! Now, if anyone is interested in why I believe religion is not good - can choose to look below.






Hey appreciate the post...excellent points!

noobfun earlier spoke of my take on a Christianity as being a positive one. Yes, tis' true, I have over 35 yrs of talking to the Lord Jesus everyday about everything...

I say it this way, I am NOT a religious person, to me 'religion' is our way of reaching to God...often experiencial and cultural in nature....and open to much subjectivity...

To OT Jesus Christ reached down to us in a real way...and I just responded...kinda opposite to religion.

Hey I know we will disagree more often than not, but I am glad to have discussed these matters with you...

One last thought for all readers on this post, as I read the new test. Jesus was very DIRECT in his words...he usually left his statements speak for themselves, you know those I AM statement like 'I am the way, thruth and life'

I have found one time when he said something, but didn't leave it there...he added to it...with a "no really" this is for real what I am saying...

A "no really" what I am saying is true. At least that's the way I interpret it.

I'll put the verse below and BOLD the "no really" part...

See ya!!

In John 14:2-3 we read, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."



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