Originally posted by retzius
What if Jesus was never born?
the earth would continue to turn, the continental plates would continue to move, and the sun would rise and set..
all of the human conventions we think are so important dont really matter, i mean, its not really "monday", humans made up monday; we dont really
live in the USA, we made up national borders; and no one is really a "christian", we made that up too; and the "bible" isnt really anything but
paper and glue, if i ground it up and put it in a mass spectrometer the spectrum wouldnt read "holy"
if you enjoy the words of the bible and they enrich your life then i am happy for you
if you need others to follow the bible then it suggest an insecurity on your part
to each his own
As I see it…you have 5 points…
“earth would continue to turn”…
OT says, He mentions the earth here in…
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
Is it possible HE has something to do with it????
You said, “continental plates would continue to move,”
OT says Dr. Nevins observed….”The popular theory of drifting continents and oceans is called "plate tectonics." (Tectonics is the field of
geology which studies the processes which deform the earth’s crust.) The general tenets of the popular theory may be stated as follows. The outer
lithospheric shell of the earth consists of a mosaic of rigid plates, each in motion relative to adjacent plates. Deformation occurs at the margins of
plates by three basic types of motion: horizontal extension, horizontal slipping, and horizontal compression. Sea-floor spreading occurs where two
plates are diverging horizontally (e.g., the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and East Pacific Rise) with new material from the earth's mantle being added between
them to form a new oceanic crust. Transform faulting occurs where one plate is slipping horizontally past another (e.g., the San Andreas fault of
California and the Anatolian fault of northern Turkey). Subduction occurs where two plates are converging with one plate underthrusting the other
producing what is supposed to be compressional deformation (e.g., the Peru-Chile Trench and associated Andes Mountains of South America). In
conformity with evolutionary-uniformitarian assumption, popular plate tectonic theory supposes that plates move very slowly — about 2 to 18
centimeters per year. At this rate it would take 100 million years to form an ocean basin or mountain range.”
And since you brought us here, he also said…
“The idea that the continents can be fitted together like a jigsaw puzzle to form a single super continent is an old one. Especially interesting is
how the eastern "bulge" of South America can fit into the southwestern "concavity" of Africa. Recent investigators have used computers to fit the
continents. The "Bullard fit"2 gives one of the best reconstructions of how Africa, South America, Europe, and North America may have once touched.
There are, however, areas of overlap of continents and one large area which must be omitted from consideration (Central America). There are a number
of ways to fit Africa, India, Australia, and Antarctica (only one can be correct!). Reconstructions have been shown to be geometrically feasible which
are preposterous to continental drift (e.g., rotation of eastern Australia fits nicely into eastern North America). Those who appreciate the overall
fit of continents call the evidence "compelling," while others who note gaps, overlaps, or emissions remain skeptical. It is difficult to place
probability on the accuracy of reconstructions and one's final judgment is largely subjective.”
You also said, “…sun would rise and set…”
OT says, www.bibleandscience.com and many many others on their site have said,
“The Sun Stood Still
In Joshua chapter ten is the famous story of Joshua commanding the sun to stand still. Does this mean that the earth stopped revolving? Scientists say
that this would tear the earth apart. The more important question is how the people at Joshua’s time understood this. In Acts 2:20 the moon is
turned "into blood." Does this mean the moon turned into real blood? No! It is used figuratively of a lunar eclipse when the moon turns a dull red
color, sometimes when the moon is close to the horizon the atmosphere causes the mood to look orange-red in color, or clouds or smoke can darken the
A look at ancient records show that heavenly bodies standing still was common terminology used back then. Let’s look at a few examples in the book
The Reports of the Magicians and Astrologers of Nineveh and Babylon in the British Museum by R. Campbell Thompson.
Report one says, "When the day is long according to its calculation, there will be a long reign. The day is calculated to last as long as the Sun
remains above the horizon." When a month has 30 days, its days are said to have their full or proper length.
Report 33 says, "Mars which has stood in Scorpio to go forth turns". This is probably a reference to the retrograde motion of Mars.
Reports 37 says, "When the Moon stands in a fixed position, there will be want of rain."
Report 90 says, "When the Sun stands within the halo of the Moon, in all lands they will speak truth."
Report 153 says, "When the Moon stops in its course, the market will be low."
Report 176 says, "When the Sun stands in the place of the Moon, the king of the land will be secure on his throne."
Report 183 says, "Jupiter has stood for a month over its reckoned time."
Report 261 says, "When it thunders in Sebat, heaven will rain with stones."
In the State Archives of Assyria volume X, report 145 says, "The 30th day became 'long.' In Volume VIII report 310 says, "IF in Adar (XII) the sun
stands still in the middle of noontime: the land will experience siege (and) misery." These reports show us that terms like "the sun or moon stood
still" were commonly used to describe certain conditions of heavenly bodies that they observed. It does not mean the earth stopped rotating.
Another important point is that one of the most important calculations in ancient times was the full moon in the middle of the month. The first day of
a full moon was when the moon set minutes after sunrise, so that the sun and moon were both visible on opposite horizons. If this was on the 14th, it
was a good omen; if on the 15th, it was a bad omen? Report 48 says, "on the fourteenth day the Moon was seen with the Sun. There will be an
overthrowing of fortresses and downfall of garrisons."
There is a similar passage to Joshua 10 in the Iliad which says, "Zeus, most glorious, most great, the one of the dark clouds, that dwellest in the
heaven, grant that the sun set not, neither darkness come upon us, until I have cast down in headlong ruin the hall of Priam, blacked with smoke, and
have burned with consuming fire the portals thereof" (Younger, 215; Book II:412-15).
Lawson Younger in his book Ancient Conquest Accounts has some very interesting comparisons of Joshua 10 with other ancient Assyrian, Hittite, and
Egyptian conquest accounts. Being able to conquer the enemy in a single day is a great victory in ancient times. One implored his god to maintain
daylight long enough for their enemies to be defeated. The supernatural aid of the god in battle with hailstones is also told. Compare the Hittite
account in Mursili’s Comprehensive Annals, Sargon’s Letter to the God(207-11), and the Gebal Barkal Stela of Thutmose III (217) with Joshua (see
Dr. John Walton who teaches at Moody Bible Institute gives two important observation. First, the description in Joshua 10 "places the sun in the east
and the moon in the west, thus indicating that the prayer was made in the morning" (1994, 182). Secondly, this day is unique not because of
astronomical phenomenon, but because God listened to the voice of man.
In Joshua 10:13 the moon is said to "stand" or "wait." In ancient times the moon is said "to not wait" for the sun when it sets below the
horizon before the sun rises. When the moon and sun are seen together then the moon is said "to wait" or "stand" for the sun. When the moon is
said "to stand" it means the moon is not on the horizon but further up in the sky (Ibid, 185). Joshua 10 seems to indicate that it was the 15th day
of the month which was a bad omen of destruction for Joshua’s enemies.”
And you said, “the bible isn’t really anything but paper and glue, if i ground it up and put it in a mass spectrometer the spectrum wouldnt read
OT says, “I’m a Master Black Belt in the mathematical discipline of Six Sigma….ever heard of it…?...and I say…please see…
No idiot here bro…OT IS up for any challenge!!! Been there, done that…be careful who you take on!!!!!
and lastly you said…”if you need others to follow the bible, then it suggests an insecurity on your part…”
OT says, I’m SORRY YOU FEEL THAT WAY…IF YOU DARE, Please see…
About my family… www.belowtopsecret.com...
About my faith… www.belowtopsecret.com...
Thanks so much for engaging me…
THIS IS NO GAME BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!
If ur a seeker, you will find HIM…
If not, OT CAN NOT HELP U!!!!!!!!!!!!
OT out - Phil 1:3