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The Obama CHALLENGE... Let's do it !

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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Here is a challenge to Obama supporters who would like to change the minds of the undecided voter. I only ask of you two things...

1. Please tell me what policy proposal made by Obama causes you to want to vote for him on November 4th.

2. With all the to-do about Marxism, socialism, etc. concerning Barack Obama. Please convince me as best you can as to why he is not a Marxist by his statement of "spreading the wealth around" and taxcuts checks for people who don't pay taxes taken from people who do..

Thankyou for your responses, and I look forward to all of your responses. If your going to convince the undecided voter, this is your chance to do it..

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Fromabove]




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 


I don't want to reveal who I'm voting for until after the election... I want to appear as fair and neutral on politics as I can on here...

but as far as your second question, the fact that you believe that means taht the McCain campaign has sucessfully worked their propaganda magic.

First, by calling him a Socialist, marxist etc, they are employing a technique called "Demonizing the Enemy" and "Labeling". Once they can attach a label that carries the perception of negativity, they can then successfully demonize their opponent.

By summing up the tax proposal as "spreading the wealth around" they are using Oversimplification and Reductio ad Hitlerum. Reductio attacks take a certain aspect of the policy, and saying it is also popular with a hated and despised demographic. In this case, socialism, or marxism.

I don't feel the need to try and explain why he is not a socialist or communist any more than you feel the need to explain why McCain isn't a Nazi...

its an obsurd notion, and its popularity and viral nature indicates their propaganda was more than successful.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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In essence the above poster can't tell you why he is voting for Obama. Such is the case with most Obama voters I work with.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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You truly believe Obama is the best candidate out of the 5+ candidates on the ballet, do you even know who the candidates are for other parties besides McCain.?

Just seeing if your truly a educated voter or a hyped up media believer.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by nj2day
 



Please note that I am not calling him that in this thread. I am asking Obama supporters to help me to understand why me or anyone should not think that about him. here's the second question again...


" 2. With all the to-do about Marxism, socialism, etc. concerning Barack Obama. Please convince me as best you can as to why he is not a Marxist by his statement of "spreading the wealth around" and taxcuts checks for people who don't pay taxes taken from people who do.. "

Thankyou...

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Fromabove]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by Fromabove
 


I don't want to reveal who I'm voting for until after the election... I want to appear as fair and neutral on politics as I can on here...

but as far as your second question, the fact that you believe that means taht the McCain campaign has sucessfully worked their propaganda magic.

First, by calling him a Socialist, marxist etc, they are employing a technique called "Demonizing the Enemy" and "Labeling". Once they can attach a label that carries the perception of negativity, they can then successfully demonize their opponent.

By summing up the tax proposal as "spreading the wealth around" they are using Oversimplification and Reductio ad Hitlerum. Reductio attacks take a certain aspect of the policy, and saying it is also popular with a hated and despised demographic. In this case, socialism, or marxism.

I don't feel the need to try and explain why he is not a socialist or communist any more than you feel the need to explain why McCain isn't a Nazi...

its an obsurd notion, and its popularity and viral nature indicates their propaganda was more than successful.




You are so lost in your own esoteric world of picking apart arguments that you cannot even answer a simple question. Save the rhetoric for a another forum. Perhaps you are trying to get promoted to Junior Moderator.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:22 AM
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I answered that...

I don't feel the need to convince anyone why he is not a marxist anymore than I feel the need to explain why McCain isn't a nazi...


And to the poster who speculates i'm an Obama supporter: apparently you haven't seen the threads where I defend Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin...

I just don't like disinformation... and have a deep interest in propaganda techniques. I think identifying the methods used is the first step to overcoming it.

if you overcome the propaganda, you can find the truth out for yourself.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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Its a dark day for democracy when an undecided voter has to ask supporters of a certain candidate to help sway him.

Shouldn't you really be reading their written manifesto policy statements and making up your own mind, instead of specifically asking for Obama supporters to try and brainwash you?

(nb Im not anti-Obama, I just think that people should not be so lazy as to shirk the responsibility of research).



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:27 AM
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There is actually an excellent site you can use to do your own research...

Since its obvious we can't believe anything out of a politicians mouth, you can go to www.votesmart.org...

You can get detailed voting records for all candidates on your ballot. Its a very good site for educating yourself on your candidates...

Actions speak louder than words IMHO.



edit: curses! a bad link! fixt!




[edit on 29-10-2008 by nj2day]



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by nj2day
There is actually an excellent site you can use to do your own research...

Since its obvious we can't believe anything out of a politicians mouth, you can go to www.smartvote.org...

You can get detailed voting records for all candidates on your ballot. Its a very good site for educating yourself on your candidates...

Actions speak louder than words IMHO.






WOW! Has anyone tried to actually search on the link he provided? After 10 minutes of trying to find voting records I gave up.LOL Enough said.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Here is a better link to research voting records.
www.votesmart.org...



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:53 AM
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LOL oops, sorry Ohio...

nice catch


I swapped my words around... thats what I get from trying to put it down from memory lol

I'll edit the post...



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by jibeho

You are so lost in your own esoteric world of picking apart arguments that you cannot even answer a simple question. Save the rhetoric for a another forum. Perhaps you are trying to get promoted to Junior Moderator.


Nothing of the sort... I am very interested in propaganda, and how and why it works...

I answered the second question... I felt it was a loaded question, even if the OP didn't intend it to be...

separating truth from Propaganda and Misinformation is reason people visit ATS isn't it?



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by nj2day
 





they are employing a technique called "Demonizing the Enemy" and "Labeling". Once they can attach a label that carries the perception of negativity, they can then successfully demonize their opponent.


Oh? And how exactly is this any different from what Obama has been doing to McCain in his constant reference to McCain being the same as Bush.

If it wasn't so scary it would be humorous to read how Obama never gets called out on anything he does.

Jemison



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Jemison
reply to post by nj2day
 



Oh? And how exactly is this any different from what Obama has been doing to McCain in his constant reference to McCain being the same as Bush.

If it wasn't so scary it would be humorous to read how Obama never gets called out on anything he does.

Jemison


Oh its no different, and I totally agree with you...

however, thats another thread. I've listed some of them in other threads on ATS though.

Don't get me wrong, you have to marvel at the effectiveness of both campaigns...



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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I'm a Libertarian. I don't like McCain/Palin, and I don't like Bob Barr or Ron Paul.

I'm voting for Obama in hopes that a Democratic rise to dominance will force the Republican party to get some new candidates with some new ideas, rather than people who just regurgitate Reaganomics every election year.

I don't see anything else that can get it done.



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