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Why would you NOT vote for Obama?

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posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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i dont like either of them, but i do want to keep my guns. the right to protect myself and my family is not for a political figure to say. thats why i choose McCain



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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More Honesty on why I don't like Obama

My first post was in regards to where Obama considers the wealth line to be and what it means given inflation.

My Second, explained that I have somewhat of am expectation of a decline in civilization of one degree or another and without the flourish of the humor I used, I think, Obama represents Internal strife leading to the potential of a sit x and McCain represents External, International strife, which I think I have a better chance of surviving despite the global repercussions being more extreme

and that btw is a strong IF scenario where reason no 1 is a reality for me as an entrepreneur


Back to Earth though for reason no 3

I could in many ways support a more socialist set of policies, more than once I have thought that, Star Trek and restrained capitalism would be a better way to go

BUT

I do not like to work, and this is selfish and I admit I have a selfish side where, the Mammal in me puts my family first

In Business for myself, I sometimes have to work hard, but always with the capacity to achieve enough means to end to not have to work for a time... (coming of a year stretch of that right now)

I don't like it for wealth, but rather freedom to grow as an individual

Socialist economic implies to me that, I might be forced to get a Job

on an Intellectual level that is Death, my doom, my studies, my research, my exploration, my time to be a Father is ruined

I have never had a job, not for more than a year at age 38, if I do it is only to raise fast cash to start a new business.

I can not... ever work under another person, I wont, I don't like it, I can't schedule myself in that manner, I do not think like everyone else, I have never been able to conform to a set schedule, not as a child, not now, not ever... I fail and have admittedly no desire to try given that currently I make more money the other way anyway

I go to the beach, on weekdays when no one is there, same for shopping and other aspects of life, never wait in line, suffer no crowds unless I wish to, like a concert etc,etc...

I can...sit on ats all day and make up my work the next day

I can work for 24 hrs straight and then take 2 days off and go dive a cave

I can make love at noon on a Tuesday and see my kids after school

and in my life

I never saw my dad... not divorced but because the guy had a job and a 2 hr commute

and the Internet has freed me of all that

I can... live a natural life, more like a farmer or any other period in human history prior to the industrial revolution

and I feel like socialism in the end is more an answer to industrial era issues which most Americans still live in, rather than communication era issues which I have none...

It is my concern, that given Obamas economics, it could become very difficult for me to maintain my freedoms

he talks of compulsory service

he talks of wealth distribution

and frankly in regards to the later, my only goal is to do what I belive is needed, buy my freedom from slavery

I view the industrial era as, the worst era in human history in terms of human freedom, slaves were set free and we were forced to all be wage slaves

and to me, the one redemption in it all, is that if your a good, smart slave

you can buy your freedom from slavery

And.. I see that option vanishing and keeping us in Industrial era politics

Because really if Obama offered, real socialism, free foodm housing, clothing, health, car and it was like star trek... you weren't FORCED into a perticular labor, you were allowed to live and...become what you will... I could live with that

I would study and do things and eventually I am sure I would make a fabulous contribution to the world... I as an individual would not be a welfare baby for life under that system


But I see this as more welfare, money enough to barely survive for the poor and an inability to rise ... i.e. you will have to get a job and there will be only so much money you can make and if you don't get a job... your going to be enslaved into something you don't wish to do and a life that is not free...

For my 2 cents worth...

I'd be happier, in a world where...there was no society and I had to fend for myself... because i'd take my acre and mule and build my house from trees and have a life in one year that in current economics takes 30 years to have... I could build these amenities myself with my mind and hands a heck of allot faster

so in that I'd prefer anarchy to socialized control

because the offering appears to be industrial era socialism

not communication era socialism in which it is understand that we have vast resources available to mankind and no limitations

It is state sponsored, not human sponsored socialism... it's sadly more like Hitlers socialism in that You live for your country a sovereign nation not a sovereign man or woman

and currently the system we are in I detest, and McCain represents it for sure

But

I can have freedom from the state in this system, I do not know... that under Obamas plans my freedom exists the same way

I think with a degree of certainty, buzzwords like accountability, responsibility, duty, and the like will be tacked on to me

and frankly, I am bright, I don't much need a system and I don't want to be controlled

and I have almost... complete escape from that right now between communications era business skills and a capitalist system

I'm not talking the upper levels where some go on to make Billions and have no accountability... they take action over lives they should be held accountable

I simply...work niche services on the web

any where in the world I like given economics

the communication era is very different, I work globally

and... National socialism is asking me to work nationally and perhaps to conform to the behaviors and beliefs of those around me...

and, I think most of them are Idiots to be quite blunt

I don't want to commute again because the 10 closest people too me have to also

I don't wish to suffer when the local economy is bad...I simply sell my wares overseas

and I don't really conform to that lifestyle I think it produces...govt raised children when parents are out doing service to theory nation every day and conforming for the sake of the greater good...


My kids have had dad around for 90% of their lives, even though I am sadly divorced now, my children can have me... more than parents that are together if dad gets home at bedtime and has one vacation a year and needs to run errands with mom on the weekends

It's the life of a serf

and whatever anyone thinks of any economics

I did this... I invented myself and created an economic system that works for me and gives me those freedoms...

and

he could very well take that away from me

and I could not and would not adapt, I would have no choice but to be a rouge element

I could never go back after having had freedom, not for long...

and this, is a very frightening thought for me. Because crazy rants some times aside, I am a peaceful man who loves his children and enjoys life to the fullest

some might say I could find solace in Academia, and I have tried that and found, you need to really conform your beliefs to the authority of the institution for that tenure and this is something I can not do to be simply allowed to study what I wish to study day by day


I have grave concerns for my freedom, because socialism done right could be a great thing... done wrong, which brings me full circle to my first post... it could ruin my freedom

and I love my freedom so much that like humorous post 2, I would if I had a choice rather see it all fall apart and keep that freedom and like Gilligan's Island "no cars no trucks no movie stars not a single luxury..." live like that

Then ever go back to spending my days growing old, under stress, controlled in words and actions and routine by another human being.


I often think how horrible it is that from what I read, so many have not had true freedom, and I am not talking wealth...the freedom to come and go daily as you wish... and I understand why for some, the extra bit of money from rich to the poor Obama offers and that health care is some freedom

But it's not freedom,

Capitalism, (restrained for the ultra wealthy perhaps and in fairness) + the digital age = work from the Beach at the hours of your choosing.

Industrial era socialism no matter how I look at it equals

Having a Job

and that just translates to remaining a serf as I see it



So I have no good reason for McCain

I would like Ron Paul but also know it's a pipe dream

But I find Obama frightening for my future



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 




Amen to that. I started working on my own this past January after several years of sitting in an office and holding a stupid job, and I can honestly say it was the best decision I ever made in my life.


Freedom is grand. Setting my own schedule and having freedom to have a real life is excellent. Not having a jackass boss is priceless



Cheers to doing things your own way



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 10:58 PM
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Ty

We are all formed by our experiences.

For me watching my Father work his whole life was a big impact.

Military Man, Planck owner on a Nuclear Carrier, Later he went on to work for several major defense contractors (explains some of my insights hehe)

About as Socialist a set of choices and contribution to king and country as aman could make in those years

and

for that dedication

I hardly ever saw him,

He never earned enough in NYC to afford his own home

My Public education stunk and by and large always let me down

and as an adult now

he has suffered illness and finally stopped working in his early 70's

and he is on Social security,

He has nothing, the medical care given to him by his paid for doctors did not help his wife my mom who is deceased and I feel, with diffeent health care provided she would still be here for us

and that's what, dealing with and working for the government in a very socialized manner got him

so

this has influenced me constantly, to be an entrepreneur, to make my own path to educate my children myself, my way

because I don't wish to be broke and alone in old age

and I have to say

I think this is what Obama offers via his policies, more bad education controlled by the state, more crummy health care that pulls the plug if your an expense or worse experiments on you for the greater good

and, retirement with a fund of what they think makes a decent life, which to date... has been woeful

and I fear these things


I think if Obama is elected i can bust my hump and overcome the threshold and still achieve escape velocity, capitalism wont vanish just be made more difficult...

But, I certainly am in no mood for that effort in my life which I am rebuilding atm

Obama plan will at the least make me work very hard to keep the freedoms I have

It really disturbs me on a level, I was given one life to live, I expect to be allowed to live it



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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I would not vote for Obamma because his tax policy is too socialist. Voting for a tax policy like such is betting against your own success. In capitalism, some succeed financially, and some fail. The drive to succeed comes from inside and no amount of "spreading the wealth" can make up for that.

Some people excel, others do not. That is the nature of the beast.

The only people I believe are voting for Obamma are those people who want a hand out. The same people who complain about politicians being bought out are allowing themselves to be bought out for a few dollars less taxes every year in exchange for their self respect, self worth, dignity, rights, and the ability to succeed like those they are jealous of. They want to justify stealing via the "Robin Hood complex" under the guise of taxes and equality. Rob from the rich to give to the poor.



posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719



I will not and would not vote for Obama because I believe he fully intends to turn this country into a full on socialistic welfare state.


Milking the working class and upper class of their hard earned dollars in order to reward a bunch of do nothing bottom feeders is socialism at it's worst.

It is unfair to those who earn their living, it is un-American to use the sweat off of the backs of hard working citizens in order to prop up an entire segment of the population who choose not to or refuse to do for themselves.

It is not only unfair but it is un-American and defies every great principal that this nation was founded upon. Barack Obama is a Karl Marx disciple in an expensive suit, he does a fine job of masking and disguising his true agenda with fancy rhetoric and rah rah speeches.

But make no mistake, he is the next great American disaster waiting to happen. Just my own personal opinion, which I will give freely while it is still within the law to do so.

Flame away if you wish.


[SNIP]

And where exactly do you get this "Barack Obama is a Karl Marx disciple" [SNIP]?

And it will remain within the law for you to do so.


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 30-10-2008 by Gemwolf]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by bkcrt
I would not vote for Obamma because his tax policy is too socialist. Voting for a tax policy like such is betting against your own success.


Not every one believes the success of a man is based on his material gain.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by chickenshoes
 





What are you talking about..where did I get it? The man told you as plain as day what he intends to do if elected. His plan is for re-distribution of wealth, which is a play right out of the Marxist red handbook of governing.

Why would I NOT vote for Obama? Better question yet...why WOULD I vote for him?


From his socialist policies to his lack of real world political experience to the fact that he was a long standing twenty year member of a church that preaches anti-American black nationalism and racism towards white people. The church thing alone is an instant disqualifier for me.


Then there are his ties to Acorn, the convicted swindler Tony Rezko, the self admitted domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, his unrealistic campaign promises which are nothing but wishful thinking turned tragic. Then there is the wife, I wont even touch that one.

I dont hate the man on a personal level like many seem to, I just feel that he is completely underqualified and in over his head. He is only good at being a politician, the only thing Obama is good at is telling people what they want to hear. He is not prepared for the storm that he will face if elected.

And for the record...Im not saying John Mccain is any better. Either way the American tax payer is getting screwed. At least Obama has Biden as a back up. Im not a huge fan of Scranton Joe either...but Sarah Palin scares the living hell out of me.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


You are correct. As I said elsewhere in the post but missed on that one part, I ment financial success.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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First is his past frienships and dealings with known terrorists. Second, is his socialist/marxist views and liberal voting record. That is enough for me. He is nothing more than the flavor of the month for this stupid reality tv watching, fat ass society. They all want free money, and soon or later we on the right are going to snap.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by TheRandom1
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


I'm not a republican or democrat, I don't give into that bs, I'm not someone who cheers for a team, I know they are both two sides of the same coin, a divesionary tactic used by tptb.

-Lahara



If you believe this then why do you think Obama will be that much worse, if they are pretty much the same thing. Republicrats and Democans, right?

I much prefer Obama over Mccain, he might be fooling his handlers and turn around and fix the country after all. Mccain, no way. One more thing, if Ron Paul was on the ballot i would vote for him, particularly if he had a sliver of hope, which I think he would if he campaigned and got his message out there. Notice how the news channels are bringing him on all the time to ask about the financial crisis that he predicted and seems to know so much about. It's because he does. Brilliant guy, the smartest of the 3. I can deal with the extremely free market stuff so long as it's fair, and it would be under him.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
First is his past frienships and dealings with known terrorists. Second, is his socialist/marxist views and liberal voting record. That is enough for me. He is nothing more than the flavor of the month for this stupid reality tv watching, fat ass society. They all want free money, and soon or later we on the right are going to snap.


You wanna talk about free money? I can take out a student loan at these unbelievably low interest rates and invest in anything I want (probably diversify between precious metal, stocks with dividends, t-bills or bonds, a put or call or two and a little shorting, at least in this market) and make the money back and then some before they want it back, maybe even before they charge interest at all. Thanks unfettered capitalism!



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by bkcrt
I would not vote for Obamma because his tax policy is too socialist. Voting for a tax policy like such is betting against your own success.


Not every one believes the success of a man is based on his material gain.

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]


QFT.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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from the mods "discretion" on this topic, it is apparently bad to support Obama....that is ridiculous. I have seen 2 people get banned that are trying to create an argument for Obama using the same tactics as those that are against him. I am new to this site but not a fool....

Look people. We can argue about how much we hate one candidate or another but what we really need to be doing is trying to figure out how we are going to deal with our future...Sure Obama will probably win....what are we going to do next? What is our plan? How will this vote change America?



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


Your story is our story. Starred.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


Given the fact he's a 33rd degree freemason, CFR member (as well as
his wife), related to Bush, Cheney, and so many other elected officals,
fake birth certificate, and Bush and Cheney are Skull and Bones mem-
bers, need I say more! If you're a bilderburg member, CFR, trilateral
commision, committee of 300, United Nations, or secret society, those
of us who do our homework know what's in the closet and these skele-
tons are wealthy, powerful, and deadly and what i hate most, every
damn thing is either in the interest of national security or executive
priviledge and we know it's only a front, lip service. I smell a rat of epic
proporions, can you say False flag operation.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:40 AM
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More than half of America doesn't believe Obama is the one to lead us. The military will never stand behind him. He will drown us in the river of despair.


Your statement is inaccurate, can you give a source that states the military rejects his run for the presidency? I am a Marine stationed overseas in Japan and I will tell you that a majority of my peers to include my young Marines respect and hold admiration for Senator Obama. He represents change that this country needs.

I have done multiple deployments to the combat zone and I tell you my friend War is Hell!!! If I had a president who exercises diplomacy rather then pre-preemptive strikes and illegal incursions into sovereign nations that person gets my vote!!

The bottom line, I want see my kids grown up and be prosperous as well as enjoy my future grandchildren. I do not prefer to die on foreign soils so the rich and privilege can live in a free country while the middle class and the poor suffer!

Keep in mind, 99.9 percent of our military forces are from the lower and middle class.



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 07:27 AM
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There are several reasons not to vote Obama

-He wants to expand military forces and recruitment

-He's already angered Pakistan by saying he will bomb the mountain regions in Pakistan/Afghanistan

-If you look at his advisers it becomes painfully obvious there is no "change" there, the fact that he has the same influential globalist minds such as Zbignew Brezinsky "advising" him is a huge red flag

-just like McCain, he supported the bailout of wallstreet, so he obviously doesn't have the cajones to stand up to the bankers who continue to destroy our economy/country

-He is ant-gun which I am not, I support the 2nd amendment

-He has a legion of [followers] who would follow him off the edge of a cliff, not every Obama supporter is a fanatic but many are and it's concerning when so many people are blind followers


these are the "mainstream" points there are other reasons that have not yet been proven in my mind, there are a lot of people saying that he is not in fact a natural citizen, and apparently by not providing proof in court he inadvertently admitted to these aligations - but I withhold judgement until more evidence is provided. If this indeed is the case though, it is a huge problem.


Mod edit: Removed political bait


[edit on 30-10-2008 by Gemwolf]



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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I had been on the fence on who to vote for a while. Both candidates have major flaws but one thing made me decide not to vote for Obama. Something that I haven't seen commented on much.
If Obama wins, the Dems are gonna control both the whitehouse and congress.
Isn't that what got us in this mess in the first place, a president with absolute power. With Obama's debatable background and shady affiliations i'm not sure that is the BEST option right now.
It seems to me that as much as Obama slams Bush he's setting himself up to be the same as Bush, so much for Change

I'll vote for McCain knowing that he'll be a 1 term president and HOPE for better candidates next elections and the questions about Palin well shes VP shes not gonna be the Pres so i could care less who the vp was. McCain has survived everything thrown at him, he'll make it 4 years.



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