Brazilian Scientists Have Developed A Vacuum-Energy Motor

[color=#484644]. . . . . . . . . . **Attention**

We are planning on moving this thread to the SkunkWork forum since it seems best suited to that location.

That does NOT mean the staff is saying that such concepts proposed as fringe or alternative science are invalid or that meaningful discussion isn't possible.

It does not mean that anyone's declared this a hoax.

So CIVILITY and Decorum are still required.

This is a very good thread and we see intelligent discourse by all the Esteemed Members.

If ANYONE can post an articulate well-reasoned post to the complaints/suggestion box on why it should be moved back, the staff will give it their full attention.

Thanks for the GREAT thread and all your excellent posts.

-Badge01
Forum Moderator


[edit on 10/30/2008 by Badge01]

rikki, you need to pass on this post. You have no idea of the actual terms that are being used, therefore, it becomes apparent that you have no idea why this would work, how it works, or what part.

If you can't even understand the terms, how in hades can you give an opinion that by misapplying terms is so confusing?

Energy has to "return?" You're thinking of your wall socket with a ground, or your car stereo, with a ground, which has nothing to do with this.

COP overunity?

Hell, no wonder we can't get our electromagnetic engineers to read the physicists materials. Most of them are named Rik.

Well, all the tech stuff here is all very fun....BUT you are all forgetting 2 very important details.

1. If you pay VERY close attention to those videos you will see that, scientifically speaking, they have said NOTHING and have proven NOTHING.

2. Take into account that history is littered with scams such as this. Perpetual motion machines. Look it up. It's basically an investment scam.

This scam is preying on internet users in the form of buying their book. Venture capitalists are too savvy for this nonsense. As are most people who might be shown this demonstration live. It would seem like a carnival trick. So their scam is simply to sell a book on the internet.

If anything ever comes of the idea of truly free energy it will be from experimentation in an extremely high-tech high-dollar laboratory. It will NOT come from a couple of guys from Brazil who know how to put together a 4th grade science experiment.

Not that I doubt for a minute that if this technology ever existed it would be hidden from us for the purpose of retaining the status quo in the energy industry. It's just that THIS story is bunk.

reply to post by StargateSG7


Stargate - you're absolutely correct. These detractors don't know the terminology, the principle, nor do they have enough grey matter to learn.

One said he didn't need to read as he already knew what physics says.

This is the very point. Physics allows this energy from the vacuum! The problem is that the folks running the electromagnetics engineering departments in our universities, won't walk their sorry asses over to the physics department and find out the physics which allow exactly this very thing. A lot has been discovered since the nineteenth century!

Dummies teaching new generations of dummies.

And the proven physics is right there for the taking!

Originally posted by Badge01

We are planning on moving this thread to the SkunkWork forum since it seems best suited to that location.

That does NOT mean the staff is saying that such concepts proposed as fringe or alternative science are invalid or that meaningful discussion isn't possible.

It does not mean that anyone's declared this a hoax.

Actually I would say, by relegating this to Skunk Works, the staff are doing exactly that - declaring that this is a hoax and the science is invalid.

How incredibly insulting!

Why leave it in the "Science and Technology" forum, where all the engineers and mechanics and inventors might actually find it, and get excited about it? Or - God forbid! - actually get ahold of the book and build one?

If ANYONE can post an articulate well-reasoned post to the complaints/suggestion box on why it should be moved back, the staff will give it their full attention.

Because the subject matter of the thread pertains to Science and Technology maybe?

Because here we have yet another team of scientists coming forward with a prototype and a book that is supposed to contain the schematics required to build these motors?

Because this isn't a speculative conspiracy theory, which is what Skunk Works is supposed to be for?

Originally posted by spacebagel

Originally posted by gormly

Originally posted by Outlawstar
Its amazing, its so funny when the people come along and say that free energy is impossible.......

This is the kind of post that makes the internet dumb...

people come to places like this, read the comments and assume the guy on the other end who posted such a brush off "I know more than you" statement is credible and then believe somehow the rest of the scientific world got it wrong...............


...........I used to think ATS was for people who wanted to discern the truth.. now I realize it's just a collective repository for poaranoia and complete nonsense. Not saying thats a bad thing, it certainly is entertaining

The best post seen so far in ATS. If I can give you a thousand stars I would.

By the way after coming to ATS I have come to the knowledge that there's no use in arguing with idiots. Though posts like this is the reason I still come to ATS.



[edit on 30-10-2008 by spacebagel]

Sorry dude, but using your eyes, you will see my rebutall to be quite fitting, I said that yes, I had jumped the gun and that sometimes things like this get the better of me.

But let me just say so far on this thread you have expressed nothing but close minded arrogance, and displayed a distinct lack of knowledge in the fields your using as examples to back up your statements.

You pretend to yourself that there is no proof of vacuum energy, simply because have not got the proof.
Admittedly inevitable, but at least have the reasoning to deduce that your knowledge of the world does not represent the reality of the world.

Vacuum, or zero-point energy is very real, Tesla knew this, as do many others, it has been and still is being suppressed as a viable source of free energy.For obvious reasons.

reply to post by malignant_tumor


I am afraid I have to concur, good sir.

Okay just getting caught up in the thread here:

originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Bearden patented his MEG, which means anyone can get the full instructions for building one - what's stopping you?

Well this is what I've been trying to say; Bearden and Bedini have their patents and their "Circuits and Schematics" book, this Keppe fellow has his book, which those two scientists used to build their motor... so what's stopping ATS from doing a little science project and testing it out? It hasn't been done yet, as far as I know, and it would be much more interesting and informative than everyone just declaring "scam" and giving up on it, as is usually done

originally posted by rickyrrr
I am willing to have another look at EFTV 1 and 2... (I assume those are videos???)

Yes, their "Energy from the Vacuum" video series. There's at least four hours of material there, your participation in that thread would be most welcome as well!

originally posted by rickyrrr
I think that it is past due that somebody comes up with a definitive *test* that a prospective free energy device can be submitted, much like the "Turing" test would determine that a computer is intelligent enough to fool a person reading its output into thinking it is another person.

A test so memorable that not only the engineers recognize it, but the layman knows to demand, and that inventors of these devices are ready to demonstrate.

A test where the device is
1. enclosed in a Faraday cage
2. device weight is disclosed and measured
3. device output power is disclosed and measured by simultaneously measuring output current and voltage
4. The device is operated continuously for enough time that its achieved output energy is greater than the energy contained in an equivalent (by weight) amount of say, gasoline, converted to electricity at 30% efficiency... in other words, let's make sure they are not just running a very lightweight generator.

Brilliant! Could you do it, if you had the schematics and resources and maybe one or two guys to help you?

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by DisgustedOne

 

Your grandfather has a lot in common with current scientists. They simply don't know, and won't do the experiments themselves.

And when they generally attempt to do the experiments, they don't follow the directions, and try to change the experiment by altering the variables to conform with what they think should work. So when it doesn't work since they changed the instructions, they discount the whole thing. It's ridiculous.

You can't get something for nothing?

Tell that to a windmill operator. Tell that to the captain of a sailing ship. That's all that Bedini, Bearden, and others are doing. They are using a very small switching input and are grabbing gobs of power from the environment, in this case the vacuum. Radiant energy. Zero point energy. Whatever term you prefer.

We took our hydrogen plasma generator to a forensic lab who in addition to signing a non-disclosure agreement, certified that we were getting 2.34 over unity of wattage. But our device was impractical. Therefore, I know first hand that you can get out more than you put in. Impossible? Not according to the Bohren experiment which any university can duplicate.

So grandpa was unfortunately, wrong.

One other thing we noted we were doing as a side benefit. We were transmutating elements. So maybe alchemists weren't so wrong after all.

Actually, I was referring to my father, not that it matters. Anyway, I made a broad statement, based on a layman's understanding of physics, and I thought it was amusing and appropriate. What he taught me, in reality, is that energy is neither "free" or "costly" but simply available. It is our method of "finding", "extracting" and "harnessing" of energy that determines its "value". He is a strong proponent of cold fusion, another so called "free" energy source.

I am not disputing the existence of "vacuum energy" and neither does my father. There is way more energy AVAILABLE than we have tapped into, we simply must find it, extract it, and harness it. But it will not be free.

One other thing that he taught me that has served me well, is this: there are a lot more things that we DON'T KNOW than things we do.

reply to post by DisgustedOne


Disgusted, my apologies if I gave any offense whatsoever. I hope I didn't.

I've personally seen with my own eyes, less than one watt, put into a suitable circuit that enabled a very sharp gradient, extract 7,200 watts of usable power.

The thing that caught my attention, and believe me I know this is just static electricity, is this. One can string 100-200 feet of very fine insulated wiring above the ground, and the higher, the more effective. One end is just "there."

On the other end, one connects it to an automobile sparkplug on the top. Run another wire that you connect to the anode end to an old 12V automobile coil that you hook up to work in reverse - so it will work as a step down transformer. The other lead off this "step down" transformer goes to the positive on the battery, and the other end is grounded.

You'll note that in a few days the formerly discharged battery will be full.

Static electricity loads up in the wire. Thousands of volts. When the voltage is sufficient, it will jump the spark plug gap, run into the step down transformer, and into the battery.

Now, if you're in a hurry, you can string several of these, feeding into the same positive terminal of the battery, and the process will be completed in hours.

This is not the same thing as radiant energy, but it's a fun experiment that demonstrates the ability to "free up" normally wasted energy.

This was done in the 1920's and 1930's to charge up batteries for remote farms who had these battery powered radios.

Originally posted by spacebagel
I'm not going to waste my time doing that knowing well that I will find the answers as already been found and established by the laws of physics.

The idea that these random Brazilian guys just overthrew 200 years of physics is ridiculous.

@spacebagel and all those who think vacuum-energy proponents are just making up nonsensical new physics as they go:

I'm sorry to keep going back to Bearden and Bedini, as this thread isn't about them per se, but Bearden gives a great and thorough explanation of the physics in EFTV Part 1.

He says that the existence of the vacuum-energy is actually quite well established in physics, and specifically mentions the work of Lee and Yang, Wu, Wheeler, Feynman and others. He mentions things like the Casimir effect and the Aharanov-Bohm effect. He says that there are many articles in scientific and physics journals about this and all these things are actually very well documented.

If you actually take the time and do the research - all these things he says check out

The problem is that the physics people don't talk to the electrical-engineering people, and the EE people are still using models that are at least 150 years old.

Bearden does actually know what he's talking about. Check it out, I dare ya

reply to post by dooper


None taken. That's the trouble with forum communication: missed cues, hasty posts, a warped sense of humor, etc., etc.

Anyway, what you pointed out sounds a lot like what dad said: find it, extract it, harness it. What I would dearly love to see is a silver bullet in the heart of the big oil cartels.

Following that principle, my thoughts on vacuum energy are this:

A.) Finding it. If it is there, we can find it. I know we are saying we already have, but I am not convinced 100%. Yet. Finding it should not be too costly. The nice thing about any energy is that it can be measured, with the right instruments. Once you find it (measure it) it is simply a matter of:

B.) Extracting it. This is where energy gets its cost. Example: the deeper the oil, the more it costs to bring it up. Of course, the cost is offset if there is an abundance at the forward end of the pipe. This may be where vacuum energy will "shine", but I don't know for sure (pun intended). If there is enough to extract in abundance, then we must learn to:

C.) Harness it. Engineers are marvelous people; give them blocks to play with and they are going to build stuff. Guaranteed. There may be an initial setup fee, but once the toys are on the street, we will all get to play, and here is why: someone is going to figure out how to charge a nominal fee for it and they will want everyone of us to have some.

What we need is a modern day TESLA! a person that has has humanity's interests at its core as well as an understanding of this "zero point" energy field and who can finish Einstein's unified field theory, I would love to see this be achieved but until the corporate thugs who will lose out money from the loss of control over oil,gas and other consumables where profit comes first this wont happen.

Maybe some firm like HONDA for instance have some amazing piece of equipment that does put out more energy than is fed in, but if so this will remain under lock and key.

there have been many claims of over unity devices in the past but they all break the rules of thermodynamics, so until i see proof and see a demonstration that's backed up with physics that fit, this goal wont be achieved. not to say that it has not been done deep black.

maybe it is possible that your tea cup holds enough "zero point energy from the vacuum" to boil all the oceans in the world as theorised. Just another SEARL device??

Here we go! Looks like they are going to open-source the technology!

www.keppemotor.com...

COMING SOON!!! The STOP Association will soon be offering the technology to construct the revolutionary KeppeMotor to anyone who is interested!!!

Construction manuals of the basic motor will be put on sale via download over the internet. A complete Kit with all the parts included to put a 60 watts motor together can also be acquired very soon by order. What a great Christmas present this can be!!!

The STOP Association will be divulging the KeppeMotor worldwide at the end of the year. The KeppeMotor is a new and revolutionary technology that uses 5 times less energy when compared to conventional electric motors. That is, these are motors that due to their ability to capture scalar energy, drastically reduce the consumption of energy, and the STOP Association has decided to show it to the world, so that people from all over the planet will be able to have access to it, study it, develop it further and apply it to as many diverse electrical uses as possible!!

Also, here is a GREAT interview between Cesar Soos of STOP and Stirling Allan of PESWiki:

Stirling Allan interviews Cesar Soos and Eduardo Castella from STOP

The Keppe Motor page at PESWiki

Check it out and enjoy, everyone!

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Here we go! Looks like they are going to open-source the technology!

www.keppemotor.com...

COMING SOON!!! The STOP Association will soon be offering the technology to construct the revolutionary KeppeMotor to anyone who is interested!!!

Construction manuals of the basic motor will be put on sale via download over the internet. A complete Kit with all the parts included to put a 60 watts motor together can also be acquired very soon by order. What a great Christmas present this can be!!!

The STOP Association will be divulging the KeppeMotor worldwide at the end of the year. The KeppeMotor is a new and revolutionary technology that uses 5 times less energy when compared to conventional electric motors. That is, these are motors that due to their ability to capture scalar energy, drastically reduce the consumption of energy, and the STOP Association has decided to show it to the world, so that people from all over the planet will be able to have access to it, study it, develop it further and apply it to as many diverse electrical uses as possible!!

Also, here is a GREAT interview between Cesar Soos of STOP and Stirling Allan of PESWiki:

Stirling Allan interviews Cesar Soos and Eduardo Castella from STOP

The Keppe Motor page at PESWiki

Check it out and enjoy, everyone!

OK, I am confused here. I have followed this thread, and my impression from the beginning has been that this motor will produce more energy than is actually put in. Now we are saying that it simply USES 5 times less energy than conventional motors? So, it is simply a more efficient motor? Not an energy producer?

I am OK with that, it fits more closely with my limited knowledge of conventional physics, but I am really hoping to see something that would end our addiction to BIG OIL. And I understand that will take something revolutionary, but a more efficient motor is not really revolutionary.

Or am I missing something?

Originally posted by DisgustedOne
Now we are saying that it simply USES 5 times less energy than conventional motors? So, it is simply a more efficient motor? Not an energy producer?

As far as I know it should be able to do both - run the motor and produce excess energy to store in a battery. But maybe I'm wrong, who knows?

That would be an excellent question to ask them!

Originally posted by DisgustedOne
I am OK with that, it fits more closely with my limited knowledge of conventional physics, but I am really hoping to see something that would end our addiction to BIG OIL. And I understand that will take something revolutionary, but a more efficient motor is not really revolutionary.

PS, a LOT of people seemed to miss this one the first time round:

Rowan University Replicates Blacklight Power's Novel Energy Source

Flag Star and Bump please

Originally posted by DisgustedOne
OK, I am confused here. I have followed this thread, and my impression from the beginning has been that this motor will produce more energy than is actually put in. Now we are saying that it simply USES 5 times less energy than conventional motors? So, it is simply a more efficient motor? Not an energy producer?

Well...that's why their claims are suspicious. If you had a motor that was 90% efficient it would take a 100W input to generate 90W of usable output, the other 10W being "lost" to heat. What these guys are claiming is that it would take 20W of input to produce the same 90W of usable output - 5 times less energy.

So yes, they are claiming it produces free energy. However if you stop and think about this why would the device need to use any energy at all? They have 70W (in the above example) spare - they just need to close the loop and feed some of the excess power back into the driving the device - it shouldn't need any fuel source apart from what it generates.

That's the only real test for these free-energy devices: close the loop!

Can anyone tell me why they use batteries instead of diodes in their circuit?

reply to post by FatherLukeDuke


Yes that would appear to be the way to go "close the loop indeed" i often picture the impossible setup of a motor spinning a generator feeding said motor in a closed loop. Totally impossible though.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
So yes, they are claiming it produces free energy. However if you stop and think about this why would the device need to use any energy at all? They have 70W (in the above example) spare - they just need to close the loop and feed some of the excess power back into the driving the device - it shouldn't need any fuel source apart from what it generates.

If you listen to the interview I linked to, Stirling asks Cesar about this, and he says they are not quite at that point yet - where the motor requires no input at all other than the vacuum energy. He mentions possibly combining the motor with solar panels to provide the input.